To answer whoever asked, I have not done my wall-of-text posts on Xtoxm and CR basically because I just haven't had time to recently since I've been very busy in recent days.
Although a very abbreviated version of the case on Xtoxm is that he has seemed very sure of a lynch in the past without backing it up much in previous posts. That in addition to the hammer which everyone suspects him for. I've sort of included it within my posts on other people as well. It seems like CR would not be lynched today in any case but I will try to get to both of them as soon as I possibly can.
While I disagree with ham on many things I agree that lynching CC provides the most information on everyone elses motives. I think good reads on many other players are possible with this.
Personally I think there's either an Amished/CC or hambargarz/xtoxm scumpair at the moment. I don't really like how CC has not had much of an opinion of anything at all during the game and Amished tried to clear CC with pretty bogus information only to join in on attacking them when there was suddenly a train going. It looks to me like getting in a "look I didn't like him either!" tell perhaps. Of course hambargarz might be doing the same thing but I have to make a choice here. If it was the xtoxm/hambargarz pair they could have tried a bit harder to get me lynched instead of abandoning that and going for someone else.
jdodge1019: hasjghsalghsakljghs is from vermont
jdodge1019: vermont is made of liberal freaks and cows
jdodge1019: he's not a liberal
jdodge1019: thus he is a cow
Wow, a lot happened quickly, sorry I've been away for this time.
I'll start with right after my post. So first off, I'll be addressing MR's post to start with, and then moving on to topics as I get to them:
At first against CC I felt I had better suspects to go after, so I decided to try to probe deeper against them rather than abandon my suspicions and have a shallow case on everybody. I've read, and tend to agree with the point, that scum are more likely to crack under pressure, so if I just ask a few questions and move on, it's not likely to come up with much in my opinion.
I tend to agree with GIEFF that you (xtoxm)were not only derailing a lynch on MR as to yourself as well. I think this is slightly scummier than normal, as you can try to prove yourself innocent (like a normal townie would try to) and still keep suspicion high on another person that you find suspicious. I don't know exactly what to think about xtoxm defending by proxy after having his vote on him (MR).
Then I don't think I like xtoxm's logic about not lynching a power role after a VT claim. If it was a doctor who didn't want to reveal him/herself day 1 and therefore be nightkilled no matter what, I would think they have a better chance of claiming VT than claiming what they are. If it was a cop, same deal. They wouldn't know if there's a doctor to protect them (50/50 chance, and the 50 with a doctor has a remote chance of being role-blocked) and even then if they claimed cop and the mafia decide to be tricky and NK somebody else they'd look darn suspicious day 2, and even if they got lucky enough to get a guilty (without a roleblock, which I'd assume would happen) find out of it the town probably wouldn't believe them anyways. I would've guessed that the VT claim is the safest way out for somebody. I never really thought about this until xtoxm's logic came into it, but I don't like this either from him.
I dunno about CC's defense #2 in 709 either. At this point I would think we should be just scum hunting, and if we want a clarification on a game issue or forum issue, we can talk about that separately. I'd still rather hear your direct reasoning than hearing theory that might or might not apply (what with wifom and all). You could have completely different reasoning, then throw out theory and we wouldn't know what way you're thinking. Besides, your thoughts give us insight to you, rather than you bringing up something from outside the game.
I also don't see your "quality". I've already discussed not liking theory in this part of the game unless directly asked about, so that doesn't equate to quality in my eyes. And I thought of my "more content here" as an observation, since I'd like to see more quality out of you.
Also, I'd like to see your (CC's) reasons for MR being townie rather than scummy. Xtoxm (so far that I've seen) hasn't wanted to lynch me either, and except for that little outburst which he retracted he hasn't wanted to lynch GIEFF either. Does that mean the four of us are all scumbuddies and we tricked the mod somehow? ....... /facepalm
There's a difference between subtlety and lethargy. For you (up until today) you've seemed to be more towards the latter. Then going on to badger xtoxm for lack of suspicions when I've rarely seen you announce who you're suspicious of either. After your first 4 posts you've FoS's ham and had your points against xtoxm. That's basically all I've seen from you really voicing or hinting at suspicions. If I missed something, please, point it out.
I'm completely with GIEFF in your misrepresentation of xtoxm's post about scumtells. Where do you think scumtells come from? Newbies that don't know about the particular tell, or are too dumb to hide it.
As to GIEFF's question here, it's a really difficult decision for me. I think CC has more blatant anti-town play (So far I'm not a big fan of people not trying to have a case against others, and if they do, only state it once and not really elaborate on it) though xtoxm fits kinda neatly into a theory I thought about the other day. It's based on stuff that's happened so far, though it does require a little digging. Right now I want to post to give you all my thoughts, and I'll be thinking about possibilities between the xtoxm and CC lynches that look possible right now. Be back in 10-15.
This might be a bit circular, but I'm just gonna type it as I think it.
Not a big fan of either's playstyle, but from xtoxm there seems to be a bit more behind what he posts. It may not always be right on, or fully fledged out to the rest of us, but it leaves the door to discussion open so that helps. After reading ham's case against CC, and actually going back to look at it didn't help my view of CC either, so for the obvious I'd tend to lean towards CC being scummier than xtoxm.
I think what concerns me the most though is xtoxm + mr. This is a lot of speculation, but it could work out. It seemed to me that both were kinda going after each other right away (and my obvious suspicion against MR) that xtoxm might want to see where that wagon was going, and if he could get mr lynched if scum, he'd be able to skate by day 2 most likely cause of the earliness and convincing of mr being guilty. After the stalling of l-1, I guess I'm thinking he thought that mr was safe, so to make him look cooperative to a scumbuddy who he'd have no communication with (mr replaced in after the night) he unvoted, and stated clearly that mr was off his scum list all together (basically). One more thing that made this unsettling was that even in the beginning, mr seemed to be relatively sure that there was an IC scum, so to make himself look better he might be able to come through with getting xtoxm lynched. This also fits in with his lack of posting a detailed write-up of xtoxm, though I wouldn't have trouble believing that he's not had time to. It's a much more complex theory, but it seems to line up as well.
Unfortunately, I've kinda led myself in a circle. I guess I would be ok with either lynch, but with CarnCarn's recent actions, I'd lean towards him being a lynchee, with mr/xtoxm being tomorrow higher on my scum list.
The 2nd real paragraph I think I could go back and find more indicating a potential scum pair, but this is what I had off the top of my head.
Amished wrote:This might be a bit circular, but I'm just gonna type it as I think it.
Not a big fan of either's playstyle, but from xtoxm there seems to be a bit more behind what he posts. It may not always be right on, or fully fledged out to the rest of us, but it leaves the door to discussion open so that helps. After reading ham's case against CC, and actually going back to look at it didn't help my view of CC either, so for the obvious I'd tend to lean towards CC being scummier than xtoxm.
I think what concerns me the most though is xtoxm + mr. This is a lot of speculation, but it could work out. It seemed to me that both were kinda going after each other right away (and my obvious suspicion against MR) that xtoxm might want to see where that wagon was going, and if he could get mr lynched if scum, he'd be able to skate by day 2 most likely cause of the earliness and convincing of mr being guilty. After the stalling of l-1, I guess I'm thinking he thought that mr was safe, so to make him look cooperative to a scumbuddy who he'd have no communication with (mr replaced in after the night) he unvoted, and stated clearly that mr was off his scum list all together (basically). One more thing that made this unsettling was that even in the beginning,
mr seemed to be relatively sure that there was an IC scum
, so to make himself look better he might be able to come through with getting xtoxm lynched. This also fits in with his lack of posting a detailed write-up of xtoxm, though I wouldn't have trouble believing that he's not had time to. It's a much more complex theory, but it seems to line up as well.
Unfortunately, I've kinda led myself in a circle. I guess I would be ok with either lynch, but with CarnCarn's recent actions, I'd lean towards him being a lynchee, with mr/xtoxm being tomorrow higher on my scum list.
The 2nd real paragraph I think I could go back and find more indicating a potential scum pair, but this is what I had off the top of my head.
I was never sure that there was an IC scum.
I criticized you for making a post which
automatically discounted the possibility that ICs were scum
. There is a big difference here. I am not sure if you just didn't understand my point or you are possibly intentionally distorting it, but that is not what I said.
I understood your point perfectly, but it appears you have always misunderstood me. Perhaps this is where our animosity between each other is founded. If you look at the 2nd line of that paragraph, I said that there was speculation, even a lot of it, and it was a vague theory that might be considered later on depending on circumstances. Secondly, even after "a lot of speculation",
relatively
is a loose term. I added that paragraph in there to put out there a thought I had the other day just out of the blue. I have no idea what made me think you two were connected, but I thought I'd share that with others. If they dismiss that possibility, and show better reasons for other scumpairs, and we find scum, great. If they look back and find more solid grounding than I hinted to, and we find scum, even better.
Ok..Well as long as we lynch CC I won't have to refute this, but come on that's pretty far-fetched...
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
Then it's game over and i'll accept I was wrong, but i'm nigh on certain he's scum. Really.
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
The way I see it at this point, if we're both town, it doesn't matter who gets lynched first - The other will be lynched tomorrow.
Anyway i'm happy with that cause i'm sure he's not.
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
I don't like seeing all this certainty from you, Xtoxm. I don't see what has changed to cause you to change your mind, and to make you so sure that you are correct. What it looks like to me is claiming you're sure to try to start a bandwagon, and switching votes when it's clear your current bandwagon isn't going anywhere.
I haven't even mentioned him in ages, let alone suggested I think he's town.
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
Can someone hammer cc already i'm getting bored of this
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
This apparently is beyond the point of remedy, so I'll claim and let you do what you will.
I am the cop. I'm either dead tonight or roleblocked for the rest of the game. But, I will leave you with one thing: I investigated Westbrook_Owns_U, now magicrabbit, (yesterday's other lynch candidate) last night and received an innocent result.
Sorry for the crappy play - I've obviously done something wrong since everyone suspects me, but I don't think I would have played any differently in retrospect.
Xtoxm's impatience for the hammer on Westbrook_Owns_U/MR (and now me) is I think a major cause for concern, and one he's not answered upon repeated questioning. I'll make this position official:
That's probably not testable, but someone just hammer me
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
Hmm, that's certainly an interesting turn. I'm not sure what to make of it, as this is my first seen claim of a power role. What are everybody else's thoughts (and where the hell is CR?)
I'm going on a crusade to put more thought into my posts.
Jesus one of you hammer me. It was either me or CC, unless you wanna lynch the cop claim (which could easily be scum) then hammer me.
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
Smooth as silk when he's scum, and very much capable of running things from behind the scenes while appearing to be doing minimal effort. - Almost50
Xtoxm is consistently great - Shosin
you were the only wolf i townread at endgame - the worst
