Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[camn]

Vote: Nachos

Spyrex, I don't care what you say, I'm meta-ing you.

I'm not happy. I blame Spyrex. I shall explain why later.

.....and possibly Spyrex, although I am unsure about his alignment.

Unvote
Vote: Kmd4360

Also, I want your opinion of Spy now.

Do I get a 'please'? I don't react well to demands.

@ HAYLEN:

1st off.. who is Nachos?
2nd.. What is going on with you and Spyrex?
I read the above quotes as distancing. (not bussing) . . where you are intentionally trying to convey some sort of LACK of connection between the two of you, without coming out and doing it.
So what's the deal? What did your meta-ing him reveal?
Why are you not happy? Just cuz you closed the window?
Why did you avoid KMD's question?

@KORTS:

Just because scum used a particular kind of logic doesn't mean that particular kind of logic is scummy.

But Ether and Incog are tight.. so I tend to think he is pretty in touch with her play.
Plus.. he said in this thread that it made ETHER look town (although she was actually scum) to use that confirmation-attack.. thus it goes to HIM using it to look town, no?

...but you can't conclusively prove that you opened your PM only at the time of your confirmation, so the existence of Incog's case is justified.

I think my initial response to Incog's question actually DOES prove that.
He asked:

Camn, why didn't you confirm as soon as you opened your role PM?

Which I basically DID.. though I remember being annoyed that there was no link! So I interpreted his question as : "Explain the few-minute delay".
My immediate interpretaion of his question as THAT tends to support the fact that I actually confirmed right away, no?

Of course he then FLIPPED the question around, which I think is suspect...
He changed it from
"Explain the delay between OPENING YOUR PM, and /confirming.."
to
"Explain the delay between SLICEY sending the PM, and you confirming..."

Essentially, camn took AT LEAST a whole 2 hours and some change just to confirm within thread.

I think that is him trying to force the case at BEST.. and actual scum craplogic at worst.

@ INCOG

I don't have firm opinions on everyone yet! Give me a couple pages!

[Kmd4390]

To be quite honest I don't think Kmd's evidence to support his reads of Incog/camn/me are convincing, since I definitely have a different read of my own play as compared to my play in True Love. I'm getting the feeling he's using his gut as an excuse not to make real efforts at scumhunting. Not to mention me bein uncomfortable with him going for town reads instead of scum reads--process of elimination is a bad way to hunt when the people you're eliminating from your list of suspects are not confirmed town by any mechanic.

vote: Kmd4390

ALSO CAN YOU PLEASE STOP THE QUOTE WARS. BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND. SUMMARIZE PLEASE. YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY GRAND ARGUMENT BY QUOTING EVERY SENTENCE SEPERATELY.

I will not read post 63 and 64. Please, each of you, give a summary of the relevant points in each.

The similiarity I saw was the way you kind of jumped on something small to start discussion. You did it in the other game and it looked protown and you did it here, although not really as much. Enough for me to get an early town read and throw out some quick opinions. Look at the reaction I got from Haylen though. Worked nicely IMO.

I keep trying to summarize the points and they just end up being really long summaries. You might as well just go read it and stop being lazy. It's only two posts.

--------------

Incog, I haven't cleared anyone. Just gave my early reads.

------------

Gonna try to do this without quotes to shorten it as much as it's gonna annoy me.

Haylen:
1) I don't see how you could honestly believe that I was trying to say you were town who hadn't seen the scum PM. I was pretty obviously just pointing out that a QT exists based on what is posted.

2)Bussing means you help get your buddy lynched. Distancing means you call your buddy scum, but don't actually try to lynch them.

3) Actually, I think you are scum for the way you reacted to my reads.

4) I think you are scum for that reaction. I have no clue on Spy. Haven't seen enough. Where are you saying I was "casual" about lynching a townie?

5) Nope.

6) You seem to be worried by that way you jump on me over nothing as soon as I vote Spy and call you his buddy.

7) I disagree.

To your point #1 at Incog, where did I say ANYONE

must

be scum?

Your point #3 at Incog makes me want to punch something small and defenseless. "It's not tunneling, it's early tunneling"??? What? But it's not tunneling because I'm trying to convince people I'm right?!? Seriously, what are you ON and why aren't you sharing?

Just because your lynch is probably the easiest to push doesn't mean you have to be town. I'm pushing your lynch because I think you are scum, not because it's easy. While both may be true, I guess it's up for judgement which is the case.

Actually, I don't twist words as scum. Anything I say is a genuine response. The only difference is that as scum, I actually know whether I'm right or wrong.

What do you mean by town doesn't have to convince anyone? I disagree completely. If you can find scum, but can't convince anyone you are right, you aren't a very good player. If you can't catch scum, but you have everyone following you, you still aren't very good. You have to BOTH catch scum and THEN convince everyone you are right. If you can do that, you have mastered playing as town.

----------

Spy, I wasn't calling you scum for that. I was saying that it isn't a reason to clear you. It is completely null.

(How'd I do at not using too many quotes?)

[Haylen]

Camn

Nacho's are the best. You will notice that recently, I have been doing joke votes as a first vote, then unvoting almost immediately and placing a real vote.

There is nothing going on between myself and Spyrex. I am annoyed at him but I can't remember why at the moment, could this be what you're picking up on? Those quotes were all valid things to say. I read that he disagreed with meta, so I decided to tell him i was going to use it do matter how much he protested. Second one, I was annoyed because indirectly, it was his fault I lost my post. Third, I was saying I am unsure about his alignment. Nothing wrong with that.

My meta-ing revealed loads but I'm too tired to write it out now. Stupid 2.08am posting time...

I wasn't happy because I lost my post. It was a well thought out post too and it made me sad losing it. I was also sad because I lost that post having done many hours at work before I wrote it and work tends to make me angry. 'I'm not happy' usually refers to some type of anger or contempt, when I say it. It doesn't expressed sadness or anything, just anger and frustration.

I didn't avoid the question. I will answer it when I get a 'please'.

Kmd

1) I can. That's my interpretation. And it should be obvious what I meant.

2) Yeah? Incog said that, I'll listen to him.

3) Meh.

4)

I'm not gonna say you and Spy are scum, but so is someone else. That's impossible.

If I'm wrong, we'll come to that later.

Bolded part is where you're being casual about a townie lynch. If you dont think spyrex is scum, why did you accuse him of being scum with me?

5) Yep. (What was this in response to?) Oh yeah, if you are scum, like I believe you are, then you do. Personally, at this stage, I think it's camn.

6) Why would I be worried about that? I'm not. I'm not worried about you voting me either, because if I'm lynched, everyone will see from my flip that I am town, I had a case against you and you pushed very clearly for me lynch.

7) Of course you do, you're trying to push a crappy case against me.

You said me and Spyrex MUST be scum because of your process of elimination thing.

And some of the things you've said made me want to smash a hole in the wall next to me...My pillow sufficed as a punchbag.

But it's not tunneling because I'm trying to convince people I'm right?!?

It's tunnelling because you've decided to go after me and seemingly only me. Right now, I'm not ON anything and I am sharing because I want people to believe me and listen to me.

Pretty sure you're pushing for my lynch cause it's easy.

I don't have to convince anyone, I know my alignment. So I don't have to worry. People will realise what a mistake it was going after me eventually

As for the rest? Yeah, I'm not a good player at the moment, but I'm trying my hardest to improve. Plus, I want to prove to you all (especially Incog and camn) that I'm not an idiot, I can improve and I'm just as good as any of you.

By the way, I am warning you now, if far too many questions than a normal human being can deal with are shot at me, I will be resorting to using the quote style structure that my previous posts used.

camn, so, I think you're scum with Kmd. I'll explain why in my next post, I'm close to falling asleep at my laptop.

Damn couldn't put my image in, sucks.

Im going to bed.

[camn]

Hm.

Well, I certainly don't think this game is old enough for anyone to have been 'tunneling'.
I also don't think this game is old enough to have even SOFT cleared anyone.

I am not really worried about quote wars.. this is only a 6-person game!

And Haylen... Please. Please tell us. About Spyrex. I don't go out of my way to meta people... so I wonder what you come up with!
Also.. why do you think KMD and I are

buddies

LOVERS

?? This interests me HIGHLY.

Now for my confession:

I was telling Incog the other day that I have a great deal of anxiety these days

about being town

.
I used to only be anxious when I was scum... but then it came to my attention that I have NEVER been lynched as town!
So I, of course, am feeling incredible performance anxiety.
Pressure to keep the streak alive!

Anyway, although Incog says not to, I think the solution is to actually go ahead and GET mislynched!
Obviously I won't do that

on purpose

.. but I want you guys to know...

I would rather it be you to violate me in that way

... rather you guys than a bunch of overeager newbs!
So if you are inclined to look for explanations (and I think some of you are!).. that might explain my initial freakiness.
I have found my center since then!
I am a placid pool after a spring shower.

[SpyreX]

Time for the other side of the coin:

Can you please explain to us how one can believe another to be scum without evidence? Sure, you say you're a vanilla townie. Hypo-town Kmd would know there are two mafia out there, and 3 more town. But he would still have to work out which two of the 5 are scum. And it's too risky to randomly flail around and point fingers saying 'you're scum, you're scum.' In fact, that's a sign of a person being scum.

It also appear as though you are in the early stages of tunnelling me, which is scummy behaviour according to Tarhalindur.

According to him, but not according to you?

If thats not the case, why mention that specifically.

May I ask when? At this stage in the game, no one is obviously town. I am beginning to think you are scum who has decided the easiest people to create a mislynch with were myself, and possibly Spyrex, although I am unsure about his alignment. It is possible that you were bussing him by voting him...

In general, town clearing town is a scary situation for scum. In THIS SETUP, it is absolutely dreadful.

Again, why are you mentioning my name specifically? This is a cascading effect that really bothers me.

It helps clarify things, so I don't make a mistake in a future game. I'm trying to improve here and I think as an experienced player, you should respect my attempts at improving my play.

You're not walkin' like a newbie, or talkin' like one. So I'm sure as hell not treating you like one. Nor, even if that were the case, would "I'm new" be a justification.

I am convinced that you think me and Spyrex would be the easiest to lynch, which is why you're attacking me. You've attacked me more than you have him. How on earth can I convince you I'm town without having you lynch me? That's just ridiculous.

Again. We are not connected. This is not tech in any scenario but triply so in this SETUP.

Go check out my games, you will see I'm always paranoid of being lynched, whether i'm town or scum. For some reason I'm more paranoid as town. Why? Cause the only person you can truly trust in these games is yourself. Town don't know they've got the wrong guy til the flip, see what I mean? No one except yourself knows your alignment, therefore, the only person you can trust is yourself. With scum, it's the same, although you're more worried about your partner betraying you. See what I'm getting at here? I am a naturally paranoid person, it says so on my wiki.

Meta is not a savior. Meta is not a defense. Meta is way too overused.

Yeah, why not? In other games it's fair to suspect more than two players when there is a two player scumteam, why not this one?

BTW why would town need to CONVINCE anybody someone is scum? Obviously, they could try and build a case themselves. Scum convince town someone is scum, town don't convince town. And that to me, is a scumslip.

You'll notice my random caps. This setup has one very, very large difference over other setups coming out of the gate:

To lynch scum, it requires EVERY town player on a single wagon. There is no room for shades of gray. So, if you are town you ABSOLUTELY need to be able to convince people someone else is scum.

Painting that as a "scumslip" is over the top. When you combined it with the repeated pairing of your name and mine in

your own posts

I'm not down.

Vote: Haylen

[Haylen]

Reading Spyrex's wiki, it appears that he is an uptight git. His opinions clearly show how he would like a game to be played, and since he has many and those opinions are strong, I concluded that he may be quite controlling in games, liking to take the lead. I was able to deduce this, not only from his thoughts on mafia, but also his comments about the games he was in. I think that he doesn't like me commenting on things like this because he wants to be in control of who he is connected to, and at this moment, he would appreciate it if that was no one. Now if he is scum and people believe he is (falsely, might I add) connected to me, then he may get lynched and therefore lose the game for him and his scumbuddy, which is the last thing that he and his partner would want.

Please note: I have yet to read a full game of Spyrex's, I am, however, a few pages into Polygamist Mafia, I chose that one for obvious reasons, even though the Lover's role here is mafia, rather than town.

I think you and Kmd may be LOVERS because you were on of his cleared town. You reacted panicky when questioned and because he has been defending you since.

Anyway, although Incog says not to, I think the solution is to actually go ahead and GET mislynched!

Now you're both saying different and it's confusing me, cause I listen to both of you.

If you say so:

Unvote
Vote Haylen

Go for it, Scum, hammer me. Do me a favor and lynch my hammerer on Day Two, I want town to win.

[Incognito]

Haylen's town. This wagon's dumb. Haylen, stop being silly and unvote. Thanks.

More later.

[Incognito]

Wait, did I ever mention my thoughts about self-voting in cr3t1n's game? Hmmm... I think I did.

All right so that might

slightly

reduce the validity of that tell (though in a game like this with Mafia Lovers, I'd only expect the ballsiest of the ballsy scums to self-vote, which still might validate the tell), but you should still unvote.

[Haylen]

Unvote
Vote: Kmd

[SpyreX]

Reading Spyrex's wiki, it appears that he is an uptight git. His opinions clearly show how he would like a game to be played, and since he has many and those opinions are strong, I concluded that he may be quite controlling in games, liking to take the lead. I was able to deduce this, not only from his thoughts on mafia, but also his comments about the games he was in. I think that he doesn't like me commenting on things like this because he wants to be in control of who he is connected to, and at this moment, he would appreciate it if that was no one. Now if he is scum and people believe he is (falsely, might I add) connected to me, then he may get lynched and therefore lose the game for him and his scumbuddy, which is the last thing that he and his partner would want.

I'm not an uptight git. Or, at least I try not to be. Sheesh.

I do have opinions. I do express them. Openly and loudly.

You are right that I want to be in control of who I am connected to especially in this game: and that answer is no one. Connections are going to be way important. Way, way important.

All right so that might slightly reduce the validity of that tell (though in a game like this with Mafia Lovers, I'd only expect the ballsiest of the ballsy scums to self-vote, which still might validate the tell), but you should still unvote.

I do agree it would take some steel juevos to pull that maneuver off generally. HOWEVER, on Page 4? In a lovers game? No, not buying it.

[Incognito]

Haylen:

The 'camn-wanting-to-get-mislynched' thing that she's referencing is something completely different from what you're talking about. Camn has never been mislynched, period, and we talked about that with one another since she thought that was a

bad

thing while I happened to think it was a

good

thing that she should be proud of. So yeah, I don't really get why you're confusing the two. You, unlike camn, have already been mislynched in the past at least once.

-~-~-~-~-~

I don't really get SpyreX's vote on Haylen. He's claimed to have a problem with Haylen's repeated mentioning of his name in her posts but

a)

I feel like this was largely prompted by Kmd (who happened to link the two of them together in the first place) and not Haylen, and

b)

I believe she initially referenced SpyreX in reference to meta because Spy's Wiki page has a reference to believing that meta is basically a waste of time (I happen to disagree). She was basically mentioning that despite what he says, she sees some validity in meta, and she will be looking into his games no matter what he says.

So, SpyreX, why exactly are you placing your vote on Haylen for frequently mentioning your name in her posts when this was initially prompted by Kmd? Shouldn't Kmd be the person you have beef with?

3) Actually, I think you are scum for the way you reacted to my reads.

4) I think you are scum for that reaction. I have no clue on Spy. Haven't seen enough.

When did this change happen? I thought you had her

and

Spy down as scum due to process of elimination? Now you have Haylen down as scum due to her reaction and "no clue on Spy"?

I do agree it would take some steel juevos to pull that maneuver off generally. HOWEVER, on Page 4? In a lovers game? No, not buying it.

Can you explain your thinking here? Why does the page number and the set-up type play a role in you thinking that a Haylen hypo-scum

could

do this in this game as scum and not suffer any real danger? Because I arrived at a different conclusion here.

[Kmd4390]

Haylen:

Most of this is "uh-huh, nuh-uh" that isn't getting anywhere. But,

4) Ok. But I don't expect to be right every time I call someone scum.

7) It's not crappy, especially if you are scum.

Also.. why do you think KMD and I are

buddies

LOVERS

?? This interests me HIGHLY.

Oh really. So when HAYLEN says it, it DOES interest you?

-----------

Haylen, didn't I already say I haven't cleared anyone yet? Yes, Camn is my biggest town read, but that could easily change.

[camn]

Her reasoning interests me, yes.

[Kmd4390]

I think you missed the joke.

[SpyreX]

I don't really get SpyreX's vote on Haylen. He's claimed to have a problem with Haylen's repeated mentioning of his name in her posts but a) I feel like this was largely prompted by Kmd (who happened to link the two of them together in the first place) and not Haylen, and b) I believe she initially referenced SpyreX in reference to meta because Spy's Wiki page has a reference to believing that meta is basically a waste of time (I happen to disagree). She was basically mentioning that despite what he says, she sees some validity in meta, and she will be looking into his games no matter what he says.

So, SpyreX, why exactly are you placing your vote on Haylen for frequently mentioning your name in her posts when this was initially prompted by Kmd? Shouldn't Kmd be the person you have beef with?

a.) Nope. Haylen started dropping my name in post 40 with that whole "I'm meta-ing you" business which still strikes me as bad news bears. KMD didn't bring forth his awesome theory which I'm going to get to again in a bit until 43.

b.) Instead of simply saying "No, stop trying to join us, there is no connection." She FED this and kept bringing up my name fostering this fake connection which I really dont like.

Can you explain your thinking here? Why does the page number and the set-up type play a role in you thinking that a Haylen hypo-scum could do this in this game as scum and not suffer any real danger? Because I arrived at a different conclusion here.

Lets break it down and I'll try to explain my thought process in entirety:

Premises:

1.) It takes all the town to lynch a scum.
2.) Quicklynches are, generally, very rare.
3.) If a quicklynch actually DOES occur and is wrong, the later votes are suspect - especially the hammer.
4.) This game has two total mislynches.
5.) If one scum is hung, the game is over.

With the above in place under the assumation that Haylen is scum the self-vote to L-1 isn't near as large a threat as it appears:

The players left after the vote (Camn, Icog, Korts) would, by nature be 1 scum and 2 town. The scum has the most vested interest to come to their defense - and this move comes in with built in defenses as you, yourself, have shown. The town in that grouping have another major question: at this point am I confident enough that Haylen is scum to hammer? If they are right, then game set match. However, if they are wrong they KNOW they are setting themselves up for a mislynch the next day for quickhammering town and pushing the game extremely quickly to lylo.

So, no, a page 4 self-vote isn't near as scary as it is.

Further, regardless of if Haylen didn't do this on her own I could see ANY of you three that haven't voted suggesting pulling a maneuver for just this reason.

KMD's in next post.

[SpyreX]

Haylen, didn't I already say I haven't cleared anyone yet? Yes, Camn is my biggest town read, but that could easily change.

In this setup, 2 days is all town gets. Slicey's scum role PM also says outnumber OR equal town. Chances were slim that we were going to get a 3rd Day. Spy, as scum, may have realized that, but asked anyway to look better. Also, with you, Korts, and Camn all being town, what other choices do I have? It's Spy and Haylen. It's gotta be.

1.) She is reacting how she always does as town.
2.) His efforts in pressuring Camn, whether to start discussion or because he actually believes she is scum, look genuine and helpful.
3.) He's reminding me of the game where he went after me out of the gate to get the town going somewhere. He was town there.

Well, I'm only a vanilla, so the most I can give is my opinions and reasons for them.

I believe three players to be town for the reasons I listed earlier. That leaves you and Spy who have yet to convince me you are town. So because I have the most doubts about you and Spy, that's who I think is scum at this point.

And you say that I am tunneling on YOU. Not you and Spy, just YOU. This worries me. It looks like you are paranoid that I am about to get you lynched. That or maybe you realize that your game is over as soon as Spy is lynched. Guys, we have the scum team. Can we lynch them now?

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Are you vanilla? I think you are a lover with Spy, which would explain the connection. Are you?

I already said what made me think they are town. And actually, the easiest lynches for me to push would probably be, yes, you, due to lack of experience compared to the rest of the players in this game (no offense meant by that at all as you could be a very good player, just not as experienced) and Camn just because of my knowledge of her meta and the way I could easily twist it to make her look scummy. Spy is anything but an easy lynch.

Incog, I haven't cleared anyone. Just gave my early reads.

See the bolded and my huge issue with this whole "town reads are NOT confirmation" doublespeak you have going on.

You said that all you have is your opinions so either your "clearing" IS clearing or it is all claptrap. Which is it?

[camn]

I am inclined to clear Spyrex right now.

[Haylen]

Ok. Right, I before I post, I need to do this. Because apparently it's what i've been doing all along.

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spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex
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spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex
spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex
spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex
spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex

See how ridiculous that is? If I wanted to create a connection between myself and spyrex it would be easy.

[Haylen]

Oh look, I just wrote about him in another post. So sue me. That's what we're supposed to be doing.

[SpyreX]

There's no spaces there so thats OBVIOUSLY not me your talking about. Whomever spyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrexspyrex is is probably just PISSED right now though.

I'd be on the lookout.

[Haylen]

I'll do it with spaces too then.



spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex 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spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex 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spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex spyrex

Ok, so I did that til the word 'Spyrex' became completely meaningless. Try it, it's fun.

I'd be on the lookout.

Clearly I was talking about you, is that a threat?

[camn]

Haylen. Chill.

[camn]

BTW..

the Lovers = Korts and Incog.

Obv.

[Haylen]

Soooo, I have discovered eating very large boxes of popcorn, with icecream and pepsi (not together) with make me hyper. YIPPPPPPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE. So, I shall try and control myself in this post.

I will also try and stop being peed off from now on.

On a completely relevent note, I just got the 64th post on the Mafia Scum facebook group! Go me! So proud...

Anyhoo...

Now I have to remember where I got up to earlier...oh, there it is...

Spyrex

, post 79

Let's have a nice little Essay writing lesson. This is how I was taught to write essays and put across my point.

- Make the point.
- Use evidence.
- Explain it.

I made the point that

Kmd

was tunnelling.
I used Tarhalindur's words as evidence. In History, you cannot write a good essay without using and stating the opinions of others.
And I explained how this related to

Kmd.

That is why I wrote about Tarhalindur's views. This is what it would look like in essay version...

Kmd's

questioning of me appears as though it is the early stages of tunnelling. His questions only appear to be directed at Haylen and he seems certain that she is scum. This amounts to tunnelling, but because we are only a few pages into the gae, it would not be deep enough to be considered full tunnelling - it is still in the early stages. Also known as Selective Scumhunting, it was said by Tarhalindur that Tunnelling is a scumtell. Tarhalindur is a well respected member of the Mafia Scum community and it is necessary to conclude that he would have the experience and knowlege to for

Haylen

, herself, to trust his word and tells when she is scumhunting, which is why she believes

Kmd's

tunnelling is a scumtell.

Out of curiousity, would that have been prefered? People tend to hate my essays. *glares around the thread*

---

But town clearing town doesn't make any sense, you shouldn't be looking out for the townie players, you should be watching for scumtells, and slips, and erratic voting and things like that.

Do you really want me to express my views on mentioning your name again? The only people I am connected to in this game are the townies, but since I don't know who they are, I don't really want to be connected to anyone. You don't want to be connected to anyone probably because you fear you will be accused of being scum and have the town lynch you, then we'll win because you are probably scum with Kmd.

I will agree that I do not talk like a townie, I know the theory almost perfectly, still a few things I get muddled here and there though. But if I don't know something, I can easily find out. The walking, however, is an entirely different kettle of fish. My playstyle is...'developing' as Ether put it. I make mistakes, I do stupid things and sometimes I just can't seem to get the hang of it. But, someone else said that's just down to lack of experience. So how you can say my actions don't coincide with that of an experienced player, i have no idea. Only completed 3 games.

I'm not playing the Newbie Card, I have much contempt for the use of the Newbie Card even in newbie games. I'm just using fact to contradict your statement. I have no wish for anyone here to treat me like a newbie, how on earth would that prove that I'm just as good as you lot? It wouldn't, it's counter-productive.

I am going to use meta. I like meta, and I think it can be worth quite a lot in games. The views on it are obviously subjective so neither can be proven. Basically, you can say what you want about it, you can threaten to build a crap case against me to get me lynched because of it, you can curse and kick and scream all you like, I'm still going to use it. It has been worth quite a lot in my others games, so I am going to continue using it within cases against people regardless of your opinion.

Hang on! Wait! You do need every member of the town to be on a single wagon in this game! Interesting, never played a 6 player before. I still believe that

Kmd

is scum, and I am going to do my best to get everyone to see what I see. That's annoying, didn't even think of how many it would take to lynch, just wanted the scum to die.

I still see that as a scumslip, even if you don't. So meh. As for mentioning you in my posts again...so sue me, I repeat.

What manouver? I self voted so the scum could hammer me and the townies could kill the scum on Day Two.

What aren't you buying? There is nothing to buy. This is a game, go up the shop if you want to buy something.

Incog,

Anyway, although Incog says not to, I think the solution is to actually go ahead and GET mislynched!

Incog

says mislynching is bad.

Camn

says it's ok to get mislynched.

Haylen

listens to both these people cause she respects them as experienced players.

Because of the conflict there,

Haylen

get's confused.


I am fully aware that I have been mislynched once in the past (only once mind you), and I'm still very pissed off about it. Everyone was stupid, I told them, but NO. No one listens to me. Jeez, just...don't EVER mention it again.

Kmd

4) Exactly, you can be wrong, everyone has faults. I hope to Lord Mith if I'm lynched, you recognise that your process of elimination is wrong and you shouldn't use it again.

7) It's crappy. It's based on process of elimination. State other reasons why you think I'm scum, then? Other than process of elimination.

Spyrex

I 'fed a connection' did I? I can't see it.

Kmd

connected us when he said we were scum together. I disconnected that when I accused him of bussing/distancing/yeahing you. As you said, any connection in this game is stupid.

Further, regardless of if Haylen didn't do this on her own I could see ANY of you three that haven't voted suggesting pulling a maneuver for just this reason.

No comprende. Rephrase or explain?

camn

Why is

Spyrex

cleared for you and why are

Korts

and

Incog

obvious scum?

---

Uh, this may seem wierd, guys, but can you please bold a players name when you start talking about them, for some reason I understand it better and take more notice.[/b]

[Haylen]

Well the bolding isn't necessary if I causes too much of a problem.