Newbie 995 .:|Game Over|:.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.3

Salezel (3)

- Katsuki, CallMeLiam, Xine

CallMeLiam (3)

- McGriddle, Nina, Salezel

Devious_Bookworm (1)

- Vren

Not Voting (2)

- Devious_Bookworm, Zed

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Friday August 27 at 05:24 UTC.

[CallMeLiam]

@Liam, do you feel such transparency is something you do special for a newbie game as our IC (thanks) or a common play tactic?

No, this is pretty much something I'm only doing because I'm ICing.

[Salezel]

Ok, its early and I had a late night so Im just going to respond to everything I can remember reading over the last few pages, instead of replying individually.

@Nina
first off seeing as how this is supposed to be a game for newbies and this is in the newbie thread there shouldn't be a thing as "newb slack" this should be a place for newbs to try to figure out how the game works not get lynched because they have no idea wth is going on

Second My Over-defensiveness and pleading inexperience Is that yes I may be being over defensive but im not pleading it I am inexperienced, and for AtE or OMGUS I had no idea what they were until someone said it and i had to go look it up. When I read the wiki I read the roles and how general game play is, I did not read everything about everything on there so I have no Idea what half of these "Scum strategy's" Im being accused of using are. My plan was to join a game with a bunch of other newbs and figure it out as I went along, not be singled out because im "To Newbish". So I'm slightly irritated that in a newb game in the newb thread im being singled out by people who are not newbs, for acting to newbish. Which is most likely the reason Im over defensive.

@katsuki I still don't know what AtE means. Second of all how the hell are only scum afraid of being lynched? you have a 2/9 chance of being lynched as a scum but you have 7/9 chance of being lynched as a townie? Ive been the most scummy because im defending my self?

[Vren]

@Nina: I didn't know we weren't still in RVS; no one really announced it.

@Xine: I have read the wiki now. Answering based on theory written there rather than experience seems a bit like a pop quiz, though.

*do you prefer random votes or random questions?
*do you think it is good to share your town reads? how about your scum reads?
*at what point do you think it is beneficial to roll-claim?

A) Random questions seem to have been more beneficial so far.
B) I'm still not sure on that one; I guess it would be situational.
C) At L-1. You don't want to go down without a fight if you have a PR, but you shouldn't do it unless you have to.

Let's get some input as to what you think about the Liam and Salezal interaction. If Liam get lynched today we will still not have very much information. The only thing beneficial to a mislynch is the information gained from it, and if nobody else is posting we have no information. Plus if we're all just townies bickering then that means scum is flying under the radar hard. So let's go people, let's get some input.

What is your opinion of Salazel? You've never played before either, so can you relate to his nervousness about being lynched on D1? Do you think you would react the same way as he has, under scrutiny?

I think Salazel is too nervous about being lynched. If he doesn't have anything to hide, he shouldn't be nervous. Even if he might just be excited to start his first game and just doesn't want to get killed so early into it, he could still just go queue for another. We do have a long time to go Day One, though, so there isn't any need to rush his lynch through, but he's worth watching closely.

I don't think I would react the way he is under scrutiny. This post right here bothers me.

So your saying that even though this is my first game EVER anywhere, that I shouldn't be afraid that Im going to by lynched on the very first day??

And that since I'm afraid that whats happening right now would happen I must be scum??

So when a IC decides that a Newb is scared in is first game ever, he must be scum? And then When an IC puts the same newb on a bandwagon and he gets even more nervous he now is playing nervously HE MUST BE SCUM! Or could it just be that Seeing as how this is my first game ever,that I'm nervous and Id rather not be lynched on my first day unless its for a good reason and AHA! he's nervous! doesn't seem like a good reason to me.

Unvote
Vote: CallmeLiamYou seem to be trying awfully hard to get me out of here because Im nervous, and I dont think that thats a good enough reason for an IC to jump a Newb on a bandwagon

1) It's very over-punctuated.
2) He's trying to shame the IC and imply that he's a bully.
3) Picturing this comment playing out in person is pretty amusing.

unvote

[Katsuki]

@katsuki I still don't know what AtE means.

Apologies, AtE = Appeal to Emotion. Funny that I should forget to explain, as I had no idea what AtE was in my first game either.

Second of all how the hell are only scum afraid of being lynched? you have a 2/9 chance of being lynched as a scum but you have 7/9 chance of being lynched as a townie? Ive been the most scummy because im defending my self?

Simple, scum win condition differs from that of town. While scum requires survival to win, being townie does not require survival, but removal of scum. As such, being lynched as town, where there are 7, is not like scum, where there are only 2. Since you like looking at probability, ending up in a 1 scum out of 7 scenario (given NK) for scum is far more less desirable than a 5 townie out of 7 for town.

Not sure if I explained my thought properly, but essentially, townie are not afraid of dying if it helps town. Even if they are suspected, they will try and help, instead of "flailing" and trying to attack those who voted for them. You have reacted negatively to not only my vote, but to CML's as well, which suggests to me that you may be scum.

[McGriddle]

McGriddle, I'm surprised that your vote on Salazel was a "joke," seeing as you cited defensiveness as the main reason and that is rather valid. What was the purpose of your joke vote? Do you find his defensiveness not actually suspicious, then?

It was still semi rv. Nah, not really, he's a newb, I remember my first game I was soo scared of being lynched that I had to tread on ice the whole time and when anyone called me on anything I flipped (I was townie)

[CallMeLiam]

Sal: If scum get lynched, that's 50% of their team gone. Therefore the pressure on them to stay in the game and help their partner is greater. You're not being singled out because you're new (I'm the only player here who can claim to be anything but) you're being singled out because your response to pressure is fairly typical of caught scum. I'm certainly not suggesting you're deliberately using any well known strategies, but I am saying you're acting like I would expect mafia to do in your situation.

McG: You say you behaved in a similar way in your first game, what advice would you give to Sal if he is indeed in the situation you found yourself in.

Vren: No-one announces an end to RVS, it just sort of happens. When people stop joking and their votes shift for genuine reasons everyone else tends to follow suit into the 'real' game.

OK, I'm pretty sure than if Salazel was going to be quickhammered (lynched very quickly) then it'd have happened by now, so I'm happy to leave my vote on him. So far he's the player I am getting the strongest read on, although he's not the only one.

[McGriddle]

I guess don't get overly defensive? Idk, it's just as your get more experience in the game the less you care about being lynched, idk.

[Katsuki]

McGriddle, I'm surprised that your vote on Salazel was a "joke," seeing as you cited defensiveness as the main reason and that is rather valid. What was the purpose of your joke vote? Do you find his defensiveness not actually suspicious, then?

It was still semi rv. Nah, not really, he's a newb, I remember my first game I was soo scared of being lynched that I had to tread on ice the whole time and when anyone called me on anything I flipped (I was townie)

I really do not like using "semi-RV" as an explaination of a vote. Seems like you are just trying to avoid liability for your vote.

[McGriddle]

No it means her really was ovr-defensive, but I know he's just new so I don't see it as a scum tell.

[Xine]

@Nina,

His placement of lol still does not explain your reference to it as an apology. Once again, what did you think he was apologizing for and why was it incriminating?
.

McGrid placed a vote, when questioned on the reason, for a perfectly valid vote, he changed his vote and called it a joke. I saw that as apologetic. my perception of apology was the only incriminating thing I saw. to place the original vote was fine, to move it was fine, but to excuse it the way he seemed to sent off a warning. like I said before, we don't have much to work with yet, but I wanted to get my vote out there.
Since then McGrid has said something I saw as pro town, and Sal keeps pushing further into my scum-dar, so, I moved my vote to where I see the more likely scum to be.

@Sal: cute AtE, in post #77, you think you are the newest player here...

@Vern: I like your observations, especially this:

1) It's very over-punctuated.
2) He's trying to shame the IC and imply that he's a bully.
3) Picturing this comment playing out in person is pretty amusing.

mod, have you given Bookworm a prod yet?

I have now! ~Nik

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.4

Salezel (3)

- Katsuki, CallMeLiam, Xine

CallMeLiam (3)

- McGriddle, Nina, Salezel

Not Voting (3)

- Devious_Bookworm, Zed, Vren

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Friday August 27 at 05:24 UTC.

Devious_Bookworm has been prodded.

[Nina]

I'll respond to the other things another day, I just wanted to get the big post over with.

Salazel, you didn't even touch on the question I asked you. I don't have anything profound to say in response to your latest post, because it is the same argument you've been making this whole time (I am a newbie!). I wanted your defense for the original reason I found you suspicious -- which was

not

overdefensiveness.

I found you suspicious because:

1) You voted no lynch
2) Your reasons for voting no lynch were weak (no leads, RVS is ineffective)

You never would respond to my issue because the "bandwagon" started after and you were too busy degenerating or whatever. You still haven't. So I kind of want to vote for you.

I don't blame you for being nervous, I don't blame you for being afraid, and I've said so. But you could be nervous and afraid a little more quietly, you know. You're using it like a weapon. You've got it the wrong way around when you say "

im being singled out by people who are not newbs, for acting to newbish.

" How can anyone use 'newbishness' against you when you are using it to protect yourself? I don't like the way you twist things to fit your dramatic arguments.

You've got both hands steadied on your inexperience like a bloody sledgehammer, and I realize it's been like that from the very beginning:

Seeing as how I'm brand new and am still learning I would like to vote for Vote: No lynch today

Your preemptive defense shows that you were prepared to come in and defend yourself and every action under this cover.

You passed your no lynch vote under this cover

. The fact is that almost everyone else in this game is a newbie and no one has come close to exhibiting their newbishness as aggressively. Townies don't need to; they've got nothing to protect or hide. I feel like you came in with a tactic.

I did defend you earlier on, along the lines of, "You're guileless and mafia would be discreet," but tactics aren't very guileless. I don't know you -- maybe you're just naturally defensive, maybe you would do this as town, but you're my biggest question mark so far:

1) You haven't justified your no lynch vote satisfactorily
2) Your inexperience defense seems like a transparent tactic

Unvote

Vote: Salazel

[Xine]

that would be L-1, in case anyone didn't notice

[Salezel]

@ Nina It's nice how you left off the part that explains why I voted No lynch. The rest of my sentence said

or at least until people talk some more so I at least have something to base an opinion on,

The reason I voted no lynch was because I had and still have no Idea what Im doing, Im not a fan of random voting so I voted no lynch because I thought everyone was going to have conversation to get hints or clues before voting. Instead It was just a bunch of random votes thrown about. You may think my reason's are "weak" but those are my reasons I did not read every single inch of the the wiki I read the basic roles and the point of the game for both sides.


When I said

Seeing as how I'm brand new and am still learning I would like to vote for Vote: No lynch today, or at least until people talk some more so I at least have something to base an opinion on,

It wasn't a cover it was my first real post of the game and I was letting every one know Im new. No not almost every one is new,5 of the 9 players in this thread joined months to years ago giving you time to play other games or read threads and develop strategy's or w/e you have that lets you guys understand the game better than me only 4 of the players joined with in the last few weeks like myself so they are the ones I classify as newbs along with myself. Your right no one else has been aggressive in saying they are new like me, but why would they when I said I was new and I got jumped by people being "to new" or w/e its you guys want to call it. You guys keep saying "townies arent afraid of being lynched" which i think is stupid yeah if the townies win you win if your on the townie side even if your lynched, Big deal your still DEAD when you "win" Everyone should be afraid of being lynched only mafia should be afraid of losing.

Yes I am naturally defensive but I get worse when I am agitated and I'm agitated because I thought this would be a learning game for me as a new player instead, the other new players havent said much and all the experienced players have been spouting strategy and tactics, and accusing me of using said tactics when I don't know what they even are.

@xine and Vren

Im sorry if you feel I over punctuate my typing, that's just how I type I usually only type in lower case and very long sentences as Im still learning English Grammar. Im not trying to shame anyone or imply the IC is a bully to anyone as that post was directed back at liam not out at everyone else as a HEY EVERYONE READ THis! post

@Xine post 77 was not an AtE which wasnt explained to me untill after post 77 it was me explaining why I wasnt answering everyone who directed something to me to answer over the last couple pages

[McGriddle]

As scummy as Salezel is, I feel a little uncomfortable with him sitting at L-1. If he is scum that means (most likely) his scum buddy isn't on the wagon. It'd be easy for his buddy to hammer him and make it seem pro-town. We'd get no leads on anyone else being his scum buddy. I say somebody take him out of L-1 so we can get more information, there's no need to lynch someone on page 4. Especially under the accusation that he's too cautious. It's the beginning of the guys first game, let's see what he's got.

[Nina]

To be absolutely honest, I didn't even notice I put him at L-1. Sorry.

You're right. He might get quickhammered and we have to get his thoughts on everybody and let him argue things out before that.

This is super anticlimatic after my post, but

Unvote

.

More later.

[Zed]

@Nina- Why are you going after Salazel so much? Why vote for him if you are just going to unvote him when it is pointed out to you that you put him at L -1?

@McGriddle- Do you still have a vote on Liam because he hopped on the bandwagon? Because it looks like he distanced himself from it a little (to me at least)

@Liam- Did you pull back a bit because you are thinking Salazel is innocent, or because you didn't like the attention you were getting for going after him?

@Xine- Did it make you uncomfortable at all that Salazel was at L -1? Or is a lynch your goal when you vote?

@Salazel- Did you ever fully explain you're vote on Liam? Or will you just change to Nina soon because shes the one going after you now? Did you ignore Liam's post, #81, or did you just have no response?

These recent posts have me asking questions, and less sure of things.

Though I am not FoSing anyone yet, Nina is now on my watchlist.

Sorry if my questions are off from what is really going on. I'm just getting super confused right now.

[Nikanor]

Vote Count 1.5

Salezel (3)

- Katsuki, CallMeLiam, Xine

CallMeLiam (2)

- McGriddle, Salezel

Not Voting (4)

- Devious_Bookworm, Zed, Vren, Nina

With nine players alive, five votes are required to lynch.

Deadline falls on Friday August 27 at 05:24 UTC.

Salezel has requested replacement.

[CallMeLiam]

Zed: my vote is still on Sal and I don't really see where I pulled back. I still think he's the scummiest player here and if it looked like I dropped the case between my last post and this, it's because Sal hadn't posted anything to attack.

McG: your post #90 starts with "As scummy as Salazel is" yet I don't really see you calling him scummy any time before that. I see you being cautious of a quick lynch here which is good, but that opening statement doesn't sit will with me.

EDIT
As I went to post this I saw that Sal had requested replacement. For now then I'll

unvote

to give the replacement a chance but that player slot is still my #1 suspect.

[Nikanor]

Muthaa quickly takes Salezel's stead! Thanks!

[Muthaa]

Hey there, I'm going to read the whole thing later since I'm busy.

[McGriddle]

I agree he is acting scummy, if I disagreed with anything I'd state it.

[Nina]

Everyone

, is there any use to responding to Salazel's latest post? It would be more opinion and discussion, but it would also be like arguing with a phantom.

This isn't a reliable argument or evidence or anything, it's pure gut, but I have to say that Salazel replacing out makes him seem just a little more town to me. I'm surprised that he did. It means that he took it hard, and I feel like, had he been scum, he wouldn't really have taken it that hard because ... he was scum, and good won out. This feels more like a "townie gives up in injury and frustration" move.

Can't lie, I don't feel too good.

McGriddle, I'm surprised that your vote on Salazel was a "joke," seeing as you cited defensiveness as the main reason and that is rather valid. What was the purpose of your joke vote? Do you find his defensiveness not actually suspicious, then?

It was still semi rv. Nah, not really, he's a newb, I remember my first game I was soo scared of being lynched that I had to tread on ice the whole time and when anyone called me on anything I flipped (I was townie)

I don't understand how "semi rv" explains anything, because the vote you placed on him wasn't random -- it was backed up with reason that you later dismissed. I don't see how the vote was a joke, I don't see how it was random; you didn't find him suspicious but you placed a vote just when pressure was beginning to mount on him. I don't think this vote is incriminating but I do think you're being rather obscure about it.

like I said before, we don't have much to work with yet, but I wanted to get my vote out there.

It's fine. I didn't like your vote at first, but I really like your explanation.

[Xine]

@Xine- Did it make you uncomfortable at all that Salazel was at L -1? Or is a lynch your goal when you vote?

When I vote, I pretty much am conferrable with lynching that person eventually. If at any point I feel uncomfortable with my vote target getting lynched, I will unvote. As I said before, I am not looking for a quick lynch, and not looking for someone to accidentally hammer.

These recent posts have me asking questions, and less sure of things.

That's awesome! but hey, what were you more sure of before, and less sure of now?

Though I am not FoSing anyone yet, Nina is now on my watch list.

[/quote]
here we may have a philosophical difference, I believe in placing

votes

, in this game being decisive is pretty key. Votes are awesome in general. they are perhaps the most powerful thing in the game, both for driving the game foreword, and for providing necessary information. I may even go so far as to say that withholding ones vote is an anti-town thing to do.