Newbie 1089: GAME OVER

[McGriddle]

This is not a "damn good reason." This looks to me like an RVS reason and trying to pass off responsibility for what I can only assume was intended as a serious vote. If you have a more serious reason (like one based on something he did) for why you put Rico at L-1, I request that you give it;

Did I said that it was a good reason? No. So, your assumption is wrong. Like I said I don't have any strong opinions yet. Since I see no difference whom to RV, why not to help a guy whose family needs him more than we need him here. Besides, I really dislike such kind of an excuses like he did. Usually it's a bad sign.

P.S. Also, putting someone to L-1 with RVS is funny. I surprised that you the only one who FoSed me and no one voted me so far.

I guess he figured you would need to have a damn good reason to put someone at L-1 this early in the day without much information. You didn't, which is scummy. Very scummy. But your obv looking scum actions make you seem more town because scum most likely wouldn't be stupid enough to write what you just wrote, and expect to stay alive.

[Sotty7]

3rd Vote count of day one

RICO ACT: 3 ( Trumpet of Doom, Kiari, }|{opa)

Trumpet of Doom: 2 (Thian, McGriddle)
I am Innocent: 1 (RICO ACT)
McGriddle: 1 (SigmaEXE003)
Vino91: 1 (I Am Innocent)
Thian: 1 (Vino91)

Not voting: 0 (No one)

• With
  9
  alive, it takes
  5
  to lynch.
  
• Deadline for the end of day one is Wednesday 27th April @ 7am CST

[SigmaEXE003]

As for ToD's accusation of RICO ACT, it's a fairly good point, but I wouldn't say one sentence is something to vote for someone over. It warrants suspicion, but not a vote, especially not at this early stage. I mean, you're more experienced than I am, so you may have your reasons, but it just seems a bit... How should I phrase this... rash.

It's early in the game, so there's not a whole lot to work with. It's something specific I can point to and say, "This is why I think he's scummy," which I like because I'm not especially good at picking up on tells that occur over a period of time - things like active lurking, which is where you're posting but not really providing content. Plus, I'd argue it actually takes less to earn an early-game vote than a late-game one, just because there's less that's happened. (The amount of scumminess it should take to get you

lynched

, on the other hand, I'd guess stays about the same throughout the game, it just usually takes a while for any one playerslot to get up there.) If you have better reasoning for a vote right now, I'd love to see it.

Well, I don't have anyone else to vote for, but anyway, you don't have to have a vote on someone constantly, do you? I would prefer to not have any votes at all on anyone until you're sure you want to lynch them out of all the people playing. One sentence is not worth it. I don't like voting at all right now, since it could easily lead to an accidental lynch because someone didn't know the person was at L-1

[Kiari]

I agree with #75. Although I think what Jora did was stupid, I don't think it's necessarily indicative of a scum alignment. Why did you do it though? Especially after what I said about NOT doing it without a good reason?

[McGriddle]

This is not a "damn good reason." This looks to me like an RVS reason and trying to pass off responsibility for what I can only assume was intended as a serious vote. If you have a more serious reason (like one based on something he did) for why you put Rico at L-1, I request that you give it;

Did I said that it was a good reason? No. So, your assumption is wrong. Like I said I don't have any strong opinions yet. Since I see no difference whom to RV, why not to help a guy whose family needs him more than we need him here. Besides, I really dislike such kind of an excuses like he did. Usually it's a bad sign.

P.S. Also, putting someone to L-1 with RVS is funny. I surprised that you the only one who FoSed me and no one voted me so far.

I guess he figured you would need to have a damn good reason to put someone at L-1 this early in the day without much information. You didn't, which is scummy. Very scummy. But your obv looking scum actions make you seem more town because scum most likely wouldn't be stupid enough to write what you just wrote, and expect to stay alive.

*No offense

[Jora]

Why did you do it though? Especially after what I said about NOT doing it without a good reason?

I haв to do it. Especially after what you said. Spank my naughty ass!

[Trumpet of Doom]

Did I said that it was a good reason? No. So, your assumption is wrong. Like I said I don't have any strong opinions yet. Since I see no difference whom to RV, why not to help a guy whose family needs him more than we need him here. Besides, I really dislike such kind of an excuses like he did. Usually it's a bad sign.

P.S.

Also, putting someone to L-1 with RVS is funny.

@bolded: *facepalm*

@entire post: I assumed it was a serious vote

because you put him at L-1.

(PPE: McGriddle gets it.) Besides, excuses like his can be perfectly legitimate (though see my own take on the situation below, at the end of this post).

[Y]ou don't have to have a vote on someone constantly, do you?

No.

I would prefer to not have any votes at all on anyone until you're sure you want to lynch them out of all the people playing. One sentence is not worth it.

I disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to vote someone you're not

sure

you want to see lynched more than any other player, as long as:
(a) they're still your top suspect, or
(b) you've got a good reason for doing it, e.g., "You're not answering my question XYZ that I've mentioned multiple times.

Vote: you

until you answer, at which point I will evaluate the answer and see if I should still be voting you." or "There's no way in hell I'm getting my top suspect lynched today.

Vote: Suspect #2

."

And to "One sentence is not worth it"... that depends on the sentence, doesn't it? I mean, to take an extreme example, wouldn't you without a second thought lynch someone who posted, "Hey guys, I'm scum and should be lynched"?

I don't like voting at all right now, since it could easily lead to an accidental lynch because someone didn't know the person was at L-1

Mmmmm... no, not really. As of right now, if you vote

anyone

besides Rico, they'll be at L-2 at most. Even if you vote Rico and put him at L-1, I or one of the other non-newbies can step in and say, "this is what you do with a wagon that's made it to L-1, this is what you do if you're the subject of a wagon that's made it to L-1, etc." I've already stated that anyone who hammers without a claim will be first on the shortlist of potential D2 lynch targets, which ought to dissuade anyone who might think it's a good idea.

Speaking of Rico, why hasn't he posted here since Thursday? He's actually participating in another game elsewhere on site (which I'm not going to link because most mods have rules against discussing ongoing games and against discussing their games elsewhere until they're done; if you want to find it, you can look yourself). As far as I can tell, either he's intentionally lurking here (which is scummy) or he's forgotten about this game (which is not). Either way,

Mod, I do believe another prod on Rico is in order.

[Sotty7]

RICO ACT

has been prodded.

[Jora]

Activity forum!

@ McGriddle, I see you are mediexperienced player. What does it stand for "Wins/Losses - 99/15" in your sig? Your wiki says all hat, no cattle! Hundred wins, hmm, big talk much?

[McGriddle]

Activity forum!

@ McGriddle, I see you are mediexperienced player. What does it stand for "Wins/Losses - 99/15" in your sig? Your wiki says all hat, no cattle! Hundred wins, hmm, big talk much?

I haven't updated my wiki since like the beginning of my play here, I can update it if you wish, but I have been here for 2 years, and I have played a lot of games. I have 99 wins and 15 losses.

[Thian]

unvote: Trumpet of Doom
Vote: Vino91

You have yet to answer a few questions of mine. Thanks.

opa: I am having a hard time seeing where your questions are leading to in scum hunting. Regardless of win's and losses, is there anything else you could quesiton mcgriddle about that pertains to what is going on in this game?

Sigma: although you do not need to have a vote on anyone, a vote helps in determining what is going on in your mind. During my first game here on MS, I had decided I wouldn't vote until I was absolutely sure. I was then accused of fence sitting. There are two parts of scum hunting. Questioning and Voting, putting them together makes for better scum hunting because at least the votes can be used to see where your mind is at. You will then not be accused of fence sitting, or not wanting to get your hands dirty. Again it is what you feel comfortable doing, but it helps out town to guage your suspicions.

Trumpet of Doom: when Rico had posted his family was in the hospital, I had a hard time deciding if that was for slight sympathy card to not vote for him, or not. I would assume though that his family is in the hospital, but had taken note of it as it could be true but it could be used as an excuse not to post much.

[Thian]

Kiari: I have noticed the amount of posting you have done has decreased when I stopped questioning you, and you have yet to really engage much conversation with anyone else. I have recorded that.

[Kiari]

Good for you.


...want a cookie?

[Kiari]

I suppose that was a bit harsh and unhelpful. So I'll explain more: I have had a very busy weekend and I don't foresee the busyness being alleviated for at least another day or two's time. So you may get a good post from me and you may not in that time. Either way it's not a big deal, because we're not close to deadline or anything.

[Trumpet of Doom]

Trumpet of Doom: when Rico had posted his family was in the hospital, I had a hard time deciding if that was for slight sympathy card to not vote for him, or not. I would assume though that his family is in the hospital, but had taken note of it as it could be true but it could be used as an excuse not to post much.

Yeah, I'm not accusing him of lying about having family in the hospital. I was willing to cut him a bit of slack for that, even if I didn't say so. But he's posting in another game, so clearly he has time to contribute to the site, he just isn't putting any towards this game. Which does not reflect well on his alignment here.

[Thian]

^^
agreed ToD.

Putting my IC hat on here again.
I've also started seeing a trend on what helps town a lot in these games, is if you can think about the potential of an end game. Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose. The more inactives you bring along to the end game, it hurts your chances, the people who are not assisting town as well can ultimately lead to a demise, active lurking, or distracting town. It isn't a sure fire way to get scum, but it does improve your chances if you can objectively look at peoples posts and ask yourself, does this help, or hurt town, and if you feel it does hurt town, then you might as well question it and get clarity of where someone was going on with their train of thought.

Kiari: I can understand busy weekend, we had a move on saturday night and spent time out doors as it was really nice. What I find a little weird and of course this isn't an indication of alignment whether town or scum, but you want to be very careful with the attitude ((we have a lot of time)). You look like a time waster by this post. Saying "Well, I don't need to contribute anything substancial because we have over 2 weeks" is not a very good outlook. When there is pressure of time and it weeds in to 3 or 4 days until deadline, you will wish you had posted more substancial things during the time to allow for discussion to happen. you never ever know what someone is going to throw at you by the 3rd day until deadline, which causes a major disruption and the inability to switch votes around in time for a proper lynch.

People will end up thinking, well why didn't you say that sooner?! or, why didn't you ask those questions sooner?! we only have a day left?! and now you bring this up?! it is just food for thought, I'd suggest you at least try to take this on board, 3 weeks is a long time, yes, but use it wisely, don't dally around and wait.
Off the IC hat comes.

McGriddle: I requested you to ask one question to each person to generate scum hunting. would you be able to do that? Also, what views do you have on Trumpet of Doom that warrent your vote there? Do you see Rico as a potential for your vote? or what about Vino?

Kiari: I'd also like you to participate and ask a scum hunting question to each person. I'd like to see your involvement more because I do see potential in you, without your annoyance.

Rico Act: currently you are being targetted by a few people as scummy. What ideas can you bring to the table that we have might not thought about you, or others yet?

[Thian]

IC Hat Back On:
If you are town, it is best to be questioning people, staying active and forcing others to talk. You want to take the time to your advantage, because you never know who will end up gone by the morning and if you haven't posted enough of your suspicions, you won't leave clues behind for anyone to analyze or discuss the possibilities for ending up dead.
End IC hat.

[SigmaEXE003]

[Y]ou don't have to have a vote on someone constantly, do you?

No.

I would prefer to not have any votes at all on anyone until you're sure you want to lynch them out of all the people playing. One sentence is not worth it.

I disagree. I think it's perfectly acceptable to vote someone you're not

sure

you want to see lynched more than any other player, as long as:
(a) they're still your top suspect, or
(b) you've got a good reason for doing it, e.g., "You're not answering my question XYZ that I've mentioned multiple times.

Vote: you

until you answer, at which point I will evaluate the answer and see if I should still be voting you." or "There's no way in hell I'm getting my top suspect lynched today.

Vote: Suspect #2

."

Hm... I guess you're right, I guess I'm just being too cautious. I don't want to accidentally lynch a townie.

And to "One sentence is not worth it"... that depends on the sentence, doesn't it? I mean, to take an extreme example, wouldn't you without a second thought lynch someone who posted, "Hey guys, I'm scum and should be lynched"?

Well, yes, it depends on the sentence, and in this particular case, I don't think the sentence was enough to definitely call him scum. As for if someone said they were scum, I actually would still give it thought because no mafia player in their right mind would ever declare they're scum. Ever.

I don't like voting at all right now, since it could easily lead to an accidental lynch because someone didn't know the person was at L-1

Mmmmm... no, not really. As of right now, if you vote

anyone

besides Rico, they'll be at L-2 at most. Even if you vote Rico and put him at L-1, I or one of the other non-newbies can step in and say, "this is what you do with a wagon that's made it to L-1, this is what you do if you're the subject of a wagon that's made it to L-1, etc." I've already stated that anyone who hammers without a claim will be first on the shortlist of potential D2 lynch targets, which ought to dissuade anyone who might think it's a good idea.

Well, alright. Again, I guess I'm just being too cautious. Which isn't always a bad thing.

So ToD, since I'm already in a conversation with you, I'll ask you. Who do you think has been the least helpful to town up to this point, besides of course RICO?

[Thian]

^^
agreed ToD.

Who you do want or would want with you in an end game situation where it is possibly Lynch or Lose.

sorry, that should be mislynch and lose. situation. not lynch or lose.

[RICO ACT]

Got prodded. Family member died. Won't be at the hospital anymore.

I'll come on more tomorrow when I have the energy to go through all this. Just avoiding being replaced.

Good to see I'm in the hotseat for being inactive. Flawless scummy logic.

[McGriddle]

Got prodded. Family member died. Won't be at the hospital anymore.

I'll come on more tomorrow when I have the energy to go through all this. Just avoiding being replaced.

Good to see I'm in the hotseat for being inactive. Flawless scummy logic.

Aw. I'm sorry,

[Trumpet of Doom]

Hm... I guess you're right, I guess I'm just being too cautious. I don't want to accidentally lynch a townie.

Eh. Mislynches happen. It's not great, but it's almost inevitable that there'll be at least one in any given game. Still, you shouldn't* try to lynch someone you think is town.

* - barring exceptional circumstances like weird theme game mechanics or "oh shit, deadline's in two hours" - it's been empirically shown that towns that lynch D1, even towns that lynch town, have a better win rate than towns who don't.

And to "One sentence is not worth it"... that depends on the sentence, doesn't it? I mean, to take an extreme example, wouldn't you without a second thought lynch someone who posted, "Hey guys, I'm scum and should be lynched"?

Well, yes, it depends on the sentence, and

in this particular case, I don't think the sentence was enough to definitely call him scum.

As for if someone said they were scum, I actually would still give it thought because

no mafia player in their right mind would ever declare they're scum. Ever.

Underlined: Call it gut, if you like. I'm no Glork or Xylthixlm (two semi-legendarily good players), but I'm confident enough in it to vote him.

Bolded: Take a look at Mini 751. On D4, Panzerjager was the last living member of his scumteam and knew that barring some crazy effect, if town wanted to win, they needed to let him live. (As it happened, he got lynched anyway, but multiple crazy effects activated that town should have had no way of predicting, which allowed us to win.)

Well, alright. Again, I guess I'm just being too cautious. Which isn't always a bad thing.

What's the old saying about "good judgment comes from experience, and experience tends to come from bad judgment"? More than half the playerlist, myself included, are here to teach you. I'm not saying you should blindly follow us (unless we're right ), but we are an invaluable resource.

So ToD, since I'm already in a conversation with you, I'll ask you. Who do you think has been the least helpful to town up to this point, besides of course RICO?

Probably Jora, or maybe McGriddle. Actually, about that:

@Jora, McGriddle, and anybody else who wants to answer: I'd like to hear each of your top three scumreads. Who are they, and why?

Got prodded. Family member died. Won't be at the hospital anymore.

Well, that sucks.

Good to see I'm in the hotseat for being inactive. Flawless scummy logic.

Nope, or at least not primarily. Try again once you've actually caught up and read my vote post.

[Vino91]

Sorry for the long absence.. Work has been intense

Vino, explain why you feel I am more scummy? What exactly ((besides a debate between Kiari and I)) has prompted you to feel I am more scummy than say, Mcgriddle who has not offered much in opening up? or }|{opa ? Who's line of questioning on religion at this point, I am trying to find relevancy with. Or Trumpet Of Doom who has offered more information on how to play mafia, than actually trying to scum hunt?

I felt you were pushing too hard in the debate in order for us to be lead into believing Kiari was scummy. I mean, I definitely felt that for a while until I was informed that, foolish as it is, Kiari seems to play like that in every game. Seeing as you are an experienced player, I suspect you saw it as a possible easy lynch.

I think its just natural for me to suspect someone to be scummy once they have done things that I felt were scummy rather than just "not offering much", as is the case with McGriddle.

As for opa with his religion questioning, I have no problem with it. Its just the same as any random questioning you have done. I have not sensed any judgement or prejudices coming through with the questions so until then, I think he can ask what he wants to be honest.

Reading back through the posts, I don't believe you have much of a point regarding Trumpet of Doom. He has argued most points of conflict that have come up so far as well as supplying information on mafia, so right now I'm not buying your version of him trying to dodge scum hunting.

Are you not ready to question Kiari either Vino? What I don't understand Vino is, when you said you couldn't decide between Kiari and I which one is more town. The implication is at this point, that you believe one of us to be more scummy than the next. How can one be more town than another. you are either Town, or you are Scum. You can't really be MORE town. It's like sticking your hand in water. Once it's wet, its wet, it can't get more wet.

This baffles me.. comparing sticking your hand in to water to how someone is acts in a game of mafia and how I perceive those actions. At any one time I would have a feeling of who I believe to be "more scummy" or "more town" than anyone else, and whether my impressions are wrong or right, it is definitely still possible!

Also, I believe that when I am innocent had said that I am more scum than Kiari, he mentioned my name. you voted, because I am prompted you to do so, without giving proper reasoning behind it. A drive by voting so to speak.

No, I voted for you because at this current time my feeling is strongest for as scum. Simple.

Good to see I'm in the hotseat for being inactive. Flawless scummy logic.

No, thats not the reason actually, but nice try.

[Thian]

Vino, debate between players is healthy, not scummy. If Kiari was such an easy lynch, do you not feel more people would have jumped onto her by now?

Also, do you know for a fact that Kiari plays like that every game? Have you played in a game with her yourself? or are you just taking someones word for it?

If you want to talk about easy lynches so far. Mcgriddle, Rico Act and opa are prime easy target lynches for scum to be going after. So you may want to start looking at those people who are lingering their votes there.

I could just as easily say at this point, i am an easy lynch target because most people fear an IC in the game and you are demonstrating the want to get the IC out. So you don't have to worry about a some what experienced mafia player.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry guys, work recently and defending myself in a MyLo situation in Newbie 1061 (now completed) have taken a lot out of me.

Some thoughts since my last post:

I am liking McGriddle and Thian the more they post. McGriddle's Post 75 is kind of how I felt about the Iopa vote.

Sigma's Post 77 are the type that drive me crazy. Newbie Town play or Scum play. I usually suspect Scum Play (see my tunneling on DrDolittle in Newbie 1061, who was indeed the Doctor ironically). Here's some free advice. Passive play helps scum. Get your vote out there, for both pressure sake and also to get it on record. If nobody votes, we have no voting trails and it makes scum much easier to hide.

@ Rico, sorry to hear about that. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but please explain why you were able to post in a few other games but not here. Also, please tell us the scummiest thing you have seen in this game to date.

@Trumpet, you ask for Top 3 scum reads? Why so many?