Mini 61-BLINDFF3

[solid074]

Of all the reactions I thought to get out of Jericho this one was not what I expected.

I expected him to complain that first day votes are rarely better than random, or to defend his vote for Enforcer as being somehow logical. The first I couldn't have refuted(Though it wouldn't have done a whole lot for making him look innocent). The second, who knows what would have happened. But for some reason he takes a third approach that I didn't expect at all.

Instead he retracts his vote, but leaves an FoS. As if to say "Gee, he's got a point, this does look suspicious, I'd better back off. I'll leave an FoS to make it look like I'm still following my own line of reasoning though.". Which of course moves him higher up my scum list for trying to do things that

look

non-scummy rather than things that

are

non-scummy.

[solid074]

Did I mention that Jericho apparently missed the ramifications of the "Devil's advocate" part of my post?

My point was that ultimately, I couldn't really interpret the data satisfactorily, and Occcam's razor was no help, so I was left to wonder what the motives were behind Rhino's vote and the cause of his subsequent death.

[Jericho]

Enforcer mightve acted arrogant, but solid's a tool. Solid is one of those thick-headed morons who are convinced that in order to play mafia well you have to form an opinion and then develop a case of chronic tunnel vision and never ever change your mind no matter what anyone says. He also is the Greatest Mafia Player of All Time because he has everything figured out and has "moved me up his scum list", as if anyone cares. Whatever.

Are you mith?

[Misha]

As much as I dislike to further goad this, unfortunately, I might have to given the path my logic seems to be following.

So, I refuse to vote for anyone that will not give us any information after a lynch, perhaps in later days, but on the first day, we need the information, imo. That cuts 3 people out right there. Additionally, I think that Gon and Enforcer are both innocent (which my last post was somewhat leading up to). So down to 5 left, Serpent seems innocent if lurking a bit (means when someone hasn't posted lately, just to help any new person). Cutting myself out of the equation, because I'm not suicidal, that leaves 3 Reines, Solid, and Jericho.

*sigh* So I guess that leaves three options (for me),
1) vote for one of them
2) request that Gon reveal his/her role and then have Enforcer verify/disprove it
3) do the opposite and request that Enforcer state the condition and then have Gon answer to that.
The flaw in the first is fairly obvious.
The flaw in the second and third are that if one is mafia and we pick wrong, it's an easy way for a mafia member to get someone lynched. Additionally, if both are mafia, it is an easy way to 'clear' themselves. Also, two 'confirmed' innocents would be a tempting target for any mafia. Thoughts, advice, problems I'm not seeing?

[Quagmire]

2 - Serpent [Gon, Rosebud]
2 - Jericho [Enforcer, solid074]
1 - solid074 [SatricialBob]

Not voting: 5 - [Hambone, Reines, Misha, Serpent, Jericho]

~marker, six to lynch.

[solid074]

Enforcer mightve acted arrogant, but solid's a tool. Solid is one of those thick-headed morons who are convinced that in order to play mafia well you have to form an opinion and then develop a case of chronic tunnel vision and never ever change your mind no matter what anyone says. He also is the Greatest Mafia Player of All Time because he has everything figured out and has "moved me up his scum list", as if anyone cares. Whatever.

Are you mith?

Yes, everybody. I'm a thickheaded moron with chronic tunnel vision. That's why I've changed direction mid-post when an possibility seemed more likely based on my most recent thoughts. That's also why my suspicions have changed on average of once per page during this game.

Nobody cares about my opinion? I'm sorry, I'll go join the other town. My opinion affects my vote. My vote has at least as much power as anybody else's. Therefore, you'd sure as heck better care about my opinion for the duration of this game. Believe me, I'm listening to yours.

So to address the actual allegations against me in Jericho's post...there are none. It's just a bunch of whining about me being a big meany and calling people names and voicing my opinions so that others could make a critical analysis of them rather than keeping my foot on them and risking the chance that everybody missed something I thought of.

Know what Jericho, you're right. the next time I think of something I'll keep my mouth shut so that the mafia can do the same and win by lurking. Won't that be exciting?

As for Jericho's answer to my own allegations about him...There are none. Just a bunch of backlashing because I think that my vote is a little better than random for the time being.

So I guess I'll just leave my vote where it is for now.

[Jericho]

LONG POST ALERT!

For the record, I've given up on keeping my true identity hidden, and therefore have no need to play the fool (or bad typist) anymore. Sorry for making my previous posts hard to read, but I wanted to get into the "blind" aspect of the game.

Yes, everybody. I'm a thickheaded moron with chronic tunnel vision.

Ah, once again you misquote me. What I actually

said

was:

Solid is one of those thick-headed morons who are convinced that in order to play mafia well you have to form an opinion and then develop a case of chronic tunnel vision and never ever change your mind no matter what anyone says.

Anyone competent with the English language would be able to immediately read that sentence and notice that, while I did call solid a "thick-headed moron", I did

not

say

he

had chronic tunnel vision. I instead said that he seems to believe the rest of us should, because changing our minds is obviously a sign of scumminess. And you wonder why I said your "list" shouldn't matter to the town.

That's why I've changed direction mid-post when an possibility seemed more likely based on my most recent thoughts. That's also why my suspicions have changed on average of once per page during this game.

Oh, wait, but I do the same thing and I move up on your scum list? That's the point I was trying to make, and the one you pointedly ignored, hence my anger.

Nobody cares about my opinion? I'm sorry, I'll go join the other town. My opinion affects my vote. My vote has at least as much power as anybody else's. Therefore, you'd sure as heck better care about my opinion for the duration of this game. Believe me, I'm listening to yours.

That's hard to believe, actually, because my opinion actually uses

logic

whilst yours (all 7 of them) have been based, initially at least, on your beliefs on when bandwagons are appropriate, something that is highly subjective and open to debate amongst many of the experienced and skilled players on mafiascum.

So to address the actual allegations against me in Jericho's post...there are none. It's just a bunch of whining about me being a big meany and calling people names and voicing my opinions so that others could make a critical analysis of them rather than keeping my foot on them and risking the chance that everybody missed something I thought of.

When you're done pontificating and misrepresenting fact, why don't you join the rest of us in

this

game and try helping us find scum instead of picking fights with Townies and being intentionally abrasive? You are right; I never made any allegations against you up to this point. You must not be mith, because mith is smart enough to have learned from his mistakes in the Blinvitational and realized that just because someone disagrees with him doesn't mean that person is scum. You obviously haven't gotten to that level of thought yet. I have, which is why, regardless of how offensive or foolish you act in the thread, I was not voting for you... until now.

Know what Jericho, you're right. the next time I think of something I'll keep my mouth shut so that the mafia can do the same and win by lurking. Won't that be exciting?

No, but as Lincoln said, better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. Everyone's entitled to an opinion, even you... I'm just trying to point out the fallacy of the "logic" you used to vote for me. I wasn't "after" you, as you said before, because if I was I would have been

voting

for you, which I wasn't. See how this game works?

As for Jericho's answer to my own allegations about him...There are none. Just a bunch of backlashing because I think that my vote is a little better than random for the time being.

So I guess I'll just leave my vote where it is for now.

Once again, I had no allegations regarding your scumminess or lack thereof. I think you're playing exceptionally poorly, but that is not necessarily indicative of scumminess. What

is

oftentimes indicative of being scum is overwhelming paranoia when someone disagrees with your opinion, no matter how vehemently. Your recent posts suggest just such a behavior, actually.

vote: solid074

I wonder if solid074 created this entire situation in an effort to derail the Enforcer bandwagon. I doubt it, because it would be an incredibly obvious ploy and a surefire way to ensure a scum loss... but it is possible, and solid's been playing poorly enough that it must be considered. What is certain, though, is that he repeatedly, throughout all of the quotes I've used above, implies and outright says that I've been "after him". Isn't that a bit weird, considering I haven't voted for him or even FoS'd him until now? Makes me wonder what he's got to hide.

[solid074]

Enforcer mightve acted arrogant, but solid's a tool. Solid is one of those thick-headed morons who are convinced that in order to play mafia well you have to form an opinion and then develop a case of chronic tunnel vision and never ever change your mind no matter what anyone says.

The assumption I used in interpreting this was that nobody would be foolish enough to believe that a particular strategy was best and not try to use it himself. Therefore, saying that I thought this was the best strategy implied that I was using it. I now understand that this was in reference to Jericho's playing, and not my own, and I am ready to address that now.

Unvote: Enforcer, Vote: Jericho for engaging in the all too easy practice of Enforcer bashing.

The original reason for my vote was that it seemed too obvious to go after Enforcer and that meant that a mafia member might use that as an opportunity to blend.

So do I - I'm going to Vote: Enforcer, for acting like he's the sole arbiter of when we're allowed to bandwagon.

wow i didnt know you were in charge cos your telling evreyone when to vote in this gmae. unvote, vote enforcer

Jericho had voted Enforcer for the same reason that Rhino had voted for him, without adding anything of his own, so it seemed logical at the time.

The more I hear from enforcer the more I think he's not scum, just arrogant. But solid's right, he is still very suspicious looking because of Rhinos death. unvote enforcer and FoS: enforcer

I assume that this was in response to this post, in which my conclusion was essentially that I had no conclusion, only some new questions. The reason that my vote still stands is that, rather than defend his vote in some way, he immediately changed on the basis that I was right(About what I don't know).


Now if we really want to talk about misrepresenting facts...

I wasn't "after" you, as you said before,

throughout all of the quotes I've used above, [solid074] implies and outright says that I've been "after him".

Funny, I just checked the entire posting record for this alias and couldn't find the word "after" in it anywhere.

I did however find an accusation directed at Jericho for writing a baseless inflammatory post about myself that had no substance. I still have no other interpretation for said post.

Isn't that a bit weird, considering I haven't voted for him or even FoS'd him until now? Makes me wonder what he's got to hide.

No, it's not weird, considering that, until this post...

Enforcer mightve acted arrogant, but solid's a tool. Solid is one of those thick-headed morons who are convinced that in order to play mafia well you have to form an opinion and then develop a case of chronic tunnel vision and never ever change your mind no matter what anyone says. He also is the Greatest Mafia Player of All Time because he has everything figured out and has "moved me up his scum list", as if anyone cares. Whatever.

Are you mith?

...I did not even imply that Jericho had said anything relating to suspicions of myself. The fact that no vote or FoS was present in the above post is immaterial, as the only logical interpretation is a direct attack on my own playing. Makes me wonder what he's got to hide.

[Jericho]

As much as I hate to admit when I'm wrong, I must. I apologize, I misquoted solid, mistaking Enforcer's posts for solid's. Therefore, the accusation of paranoia I cited in my last post is unbased, which means in turn my vote is unfounded. My apologies.

unvote: solid074

As much as solid's pissing me off, he's not scummy, at least IMO.

However, I do still have issue with a couple of things regarding solid (as tired as the rest of you are undoubtedly getting of reading this diatribe, I apologize, but I think the point's worth making).

...I did not even imply that Jericho had said anything relating to suspicions of myself. The fact that no vote or FoS was present in the above post is immaterial, as the only logical interpretation is a direct attack on my own playing.

Actually, it's quite material. There's a huge difference between believing someone's playing poorly (as I still believe you are) and believing someone's scum. If I attack your playing, it means I think you're a poor player, but it does NOT mean I believe you're scum. Aside from my previous post and subsequent vote (which was a mistake I'm ashamed of), at no point have I even insinuated that you're scum.

One of the reasons I believe you're playing poorly is this: you're one of the many players who seem to think that being abrasive somehow brings out the true nature of the player, thereby exposing their scumminess or lack thereof. In actuality, however, what it really does is piss people off and make them not want to play games with you. You're not the only one guilty of this, though, because I rose to the bait just like you hoped I would. For that, I apologize to the rest of the players in this game, because had I held my temper, we might not be in such a ridiculous debate. I still believe I had a good point to make, which is that changing my mind does not make me scum... but I went about it the wrong way, and for that I apologize.

Makes me wonder what he's got to hide.

Please don't steal lines from other people in an effort to be clever. It's just annoying.

[Hambone]

wow
one of you has GOTTA be mith.
or at least Antrax.
i mean jesus those posts were long and complicated

i'm still unsure who to vote for, planning on rereading each argument looking for any slip-ups.

[solid074]

This whole last page is stupid. I wish I had never gotten down this rabbit trail.

Vote: Serpent

for no reason other than plain old lurking.[/b]

[Enforcer]

Thanks Jericho for your revalation. It helps in convincing me you are scum. Thinking it through, it would make perfect sence for scum to feign being a bumbling idiot. Everybody would think he'd be a newbie, and would feel bad about voting him. Similarly, anybody voting him could easily be voted on the fact of "look what he's doing to that poor innocent newbie!". Moreover, he could spew garbage, and if nobody believes his crap logic, people would be hesitatn to vote him on that grounds alone because "hey, he's a newbie. He doesn't know what he's doing is wrong" Unfortunatly for Jericho, with the veil lifted, it is clear that earlier he was not being just wrong, but deliberatly misleading as well. I am happy with where my vote is.

But don't think for a moment my suspicions on solid have disappeared. Oh no, rather I think Jericho and solid are together can trying to disociate from each other since there is a good chance on of them of going to be investigated and caught. Just for kicks:

By the way, I wasn't "Testing" anyone. I'm being this abusive because you really are that stupid.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt so that I could treat you guys like morons and get a reaction. Since we have an incredibly placid town that didn't work(Or maybe I wasn't abusive enough)

No comment needed

[SatiricalBob]

And in tonight's big match up, Jericho single-handedly takes on the tag team duo of solid074 and Enforcer in what is likely to be a blood-less feud and completely annoying to the crowds that have gathered all around.

So who wins, you decide! To choose, type V - O - T - E followed by the name of the character, you think is the loudest and most annoying.

[Quagmire]

3 - Serpent [Gon, Rosebud, solid074]
1 - Jericho [Enforcer]
1 - solid074 [SatricialBob]

Not voting: 5 - [Hambone, Reines, Misha, Serpent, Jericho]

~marker~, and it's still six to lynch.

[Reines]

Question for Enforcer, perhaps missed in earlier posts: Is your vote blocking triggered or do you have to activate it yourself? Can you choose not to vote block?

Though from this Enforcer knows information about Gon, true or false? Care to share?

[solid074]

I've been wondering the same thing reines.

As for SatiricalBob and Enforcer, I was beginning to think that all the stupidity in this game was largely my own fault. Now I'm beginning to think that blind games somehow cause mass hysteria in the players.

As far as Enforcer's exposition of my playing, that was very clever. Out of context. The first quote was in reference to Enforcer specifically(I still think there must be very little going on between his ears), the second quote was in reference to my treatment of the whole town.

Anyway I'd like to move on now. It would be very nice if some players would participate.

[Gon]

I want to know what he has to say too.... regarding how the vote block is activated and what infomation he has about me, although it seems that Enforcer is not scum, but its nice to be certian about how much he knows

[Enforcer]

I do not activate the vote block; it just happens. I can't turn it off whether I want to or not. Also, I do not think it wise to disclose the characteristic yet, or even a hint about it. Even a hint about it would give too much away at this time.

As for solid, time for a reality check. You made a post about how you being abusive just to get information (whether it was to me or not is irrevalent). I then said that saying you were just testing someone by beign abusive is very scummy. In response to this, you claim that you weren't testing anybody. In context, the quotes still show how you condridicted yourself. FOS still stands.

[Gon]

Since the block is not activated by you, then i'll retract the request for you to reveal the infomation until a more suitble time comes

mod: can you give serpent a prod to make sure he is still alive?

[Reines]

I guess we've reached maximum satisfication (real word?) from Enforcer for the day. Let's see if this prods Mr. Serpent:

Vote: Serpent

[Hambone]

You say you can turn off the vote negate?
does that cut out the possibility of it being this type of thing:

Lovers: Celes and Locke, imo
Family: Cid/Celes, Sabin/Edgar, Strago/Relm/I am not going to put Shadow there, even though it is likely he is family.
Companions: Mog/Umaro
Evil Pair: Kefka/Gestahl (unlikely to have that restriction, they did try to kill each other after all)

anyway

vote serpent

for lurking

[Enforcer]

I guess we've reached maximum satisfication (real word?) from Enforcer for the day.

Oh yeah, leave it to me to dish out maximum satisfication

Hambone, I said I can

n't

turn off the block.

[Gon]

trying to flush the lurker out is a good idea, but putting him one away from lynch.......... well, thats something else

unvote: serpent

[Hambone]

whoops i thought mine was the 4th vote.
Serpent has only posted once in the game, i say we replace him

[Quagmire]

Serpent has 24 hours to respond to my prodding or post, or he will be replaced.

4 - Serpent [Rosebud, solid074, Reines, Hambone]
1 - Jericho [Enforcer]
1 - solid074 [SatricialBob]

Not voting: 4 - [Misha, Serpent, Jericho, Gon]

~marker, six to lynchify.