Newbie #358 - Big Trouble in Little Rome (Game Over!)

[Mr. Flay]

Third Vote Count of Day One:

Tendril - 2 (Battle Mage, yakult)

Jack - 1 (Dio)
kabenon007

ElKabong

- 1 (vollkan)

Not voting - 3 (kabenon007, Jack, Tendril)

With seven alive, four votes will lynch.

[Battle Mage]

may i ask how many games you have participated in on MS?

I will try to explain what I was thinking (or not thinking as the case was).

It was really just a case of another vote to pressure him into speaking, i thought if he was suddenly one off a lynch he'd need to speak to save himself, I know (now) that it really just puts him into a position where he can be bumped off quickly.

I'm, not sure I can explain it very much more than that.

[Jack]

Interesting. This is his 4th newbie game. Looking at his post history he's played the newbie card fairly often. In 309 he played it, and was town.

[Tendril]

Two haven't survived very long to be fair, and this situation hasn't arisen before and finally i probably am just not very good at this. However, I'm not going to defend myself anymore as it is distracting me from trying to find out who the mafia actually are. You'll either have to believe me and not vote or don't believe me and vote.

[Battle Mage]

hmm... i just find it odd that you havent noticed before ANYONE who got put at lynch-1, and the reaction it ALWAYS provokes. Strikes me as odd, considering your time at the site, and the fact you have played as many newbie games as me-where lynch-1 comes around more often than most.
nonetheless, i think you could be genuine town. Jack certainly seems willing to fight your corner.

Unvote

Two haven't survived very long to be fair, and this situation hasn't arisen before and finally i probably am just not very good at this. However, I'm not going to defend myself anymore as it is distracting me from trying to find out who the mafia actually are. You'll either have to believe me and not vote or don't believe me and vote.

[kabenon007]

I don't know. Tendril's reluctance to defend himself seems a little scummy...
If he were town, he would want us all to believe he was town. If we all believed he was town, and he was, then we would have one less person to suspect as Mafia.

If Tendril's true goal is to expose the Mafia, what better way to do it than to clear each person, beginning with himself? That way we know one person who is not mafia.

[kabenon007]

oh, quick question... for everyone, including the mod. As my day job, I am a writer, and I had an idea for a story on Mafia. It's kind of like the movie Saw. A guy kidnaps 18 people and makes them play real Mafia, where the people actually die. I want to make it as real as possible, so would it be alright if I use this game as like a reference, and include strategies and stuff like that? If there are any objections, just let me know, but it would be really helpful...

[Jack]

Just cut my in for 50% of the profits

Also, reluctance to defend oneself is a newbie tell. I'm not saying whether tendril is town or not, but I don't think there is evidence of scum yet.

[kabenon007]

but is tendril still a newbie? I mean, this is his fourth game, and that also doesn't include how many he might have played outside of forum.

[Tendril]

Ok, I'll try to clear this up.

I have been in TWO previous games to this, 309 and 346, 309 I made some mistake which I didnt recognise until it was explained to me, that was my newbie mistake I claimed before, as mentioned previously, 346 was abandoned when a mafia declared himself and his partner before much had been done (it was also around the time of the post wipe).

So I have really managed one complete game, one very small game and this.

However outside the forum I am a mafia don who will now attempt to place a horses head in your bed tonight - This is a joke.

I don't know. Tendril's reluctance to defend himself seems a little scummy...
If he were town, he would want us all to believe he was town. If we all believed he was town, and he was, then we would have one less person to suspect as Mafia.

Your logic seems sound however it seems to ignore the fact i had posted to defend myself by explaining the my reasons. Why is that, or is my explaining my actions not defending myself? What would you consider a defence?

[kabenon007]

Two haven't survived very long to be fair, and this situation hasn't arisen before and finally i probably am just not very good at this. However, I'm not going to defend myself anymore as it is distracting me from trying to find out who the mafia actually are. You'll either have to believe me and not vote or don't believe me and vote.

I admit that you have defended yourself before. However, you clearly state that you are done defending. That's all I am pointing out.

[Battle Mage]

its a nice idea, but it would work better as a film than a book i think.
Also, you are gonna be hard pushed to beat Saw-which already had a similar storyline in its sequel.

oh, quick question... for everyone, including the mod. As my day job, I am a writer, and I had an idea for a story on Mafia. It's kind of like the movie Saw. A guy kidnaps 18 people and makes them play real Mafia, where the people actually die. I want to make it as real as possible, so would it be alright if I use this game as like a reference, and include strategies and stuff like that? If there are any objections, just let me know, but it would be really helpful...

[kabenon007]

of course it would be better as a film. every film needs a script. besides, it would bloody as all get out!

[vollkan]

Your logic seems sound however it seems to ignore the fact i had posted to defend myself by explaining the my reasons. Why is that, or is my explaining my actions not defending myself? What would you consider a defence?

Your defence is complete, I don't think anyone is denying that. It's more just that unlike a really good explanation, the defence of "newb" is a relatively easy way out of suspicion and, hence, people are rightfully suspicious of it. In the last game I was in (Newbie 339), another player (who was scum) lynched someone and then excused themself on the basis that they "made a mistake" and "weren't paying attention". I kept pressing the person on it since I, correctly, thought it was a complete lie...and I got lynched for it (I was town).

In short, I don't necessarily believe your excuse but since it may well be a genuine newb mistake I don't think we will learn anything by pressing the issue any further.

[kabenon007]

"tis true, tis true, this we are often told: that with virtuous deed and pious action we do sugar o'er the devil himself."

A good point, vollkan.

[Mr. Flay]

Dr. Doom replaces Tendril upon request, effective immediately

(or whenever he picks up his role PM).

[Dr. Doom]

Hi all, Im here to replace Tendril. I have not yet read anything, but I will. I will also post agaion this weekend, though more substantial/long stuff wll probably not posted before Monday (SOrry for that).

I dunno if Tendril voted, but I'll

unvote

whoever she was voting for. If you have any questions that should Tendril be asked, ask away - I'll try to answer them.

[yakult]

I'm not inclined to jump all over someone for what could be a newbie mistake.

fos:yakult

not sure I liked the tone of your accusation of tendril. Tendril

did

explain his reasoning, it was to put more pressure on elKabong. He could be scum pushing for speedlynch or mistaken townie, I'm not going to assume either just yet. One thing though, generally whenever a newbie makes a newbie mistake there is at least one scum that jumps all over them for it.

I felt like my vote was better made on Tendril than on Dio, since the one on Dio was random, and Tendril is the first one I've seen to do anything particularly suspicious this game. I feel like two votes isn't dangerously high for this level of suspicion, although if it suddenly raised to three, I'd remove it, since I'm not ready to be part of a lynch just yet.

[Dr. Doom]

Okay, I read teh whole thing once (just now). I don't have that much time right now, so I'll leave it at one reread for now and will just post what grabbed my attention.
Im not really familiar with all you guys yet, so my attitude towards some of you could change during my next posts.

1) Jack, why do you defend Tendril so much? I mean, I did the same thing in my last game, when a wagon was driven very hard to kill an unexperienced townie (btw, teh wagondriver was our Cop ). There are two possible explanations:
a) You genuinly think that Tendril is a newb making newb mistakes
b) You are scum, and thus know that Tendril is innocent. If yxou defend him now, and he gets lynched, you will look much better since you defended him. If he does not get lynched, you aill at least look much better in his eyes.

Although I don't know your playstyle, Jack, I'm inclined to think its the former, since the latter exposes you much more, a thing which needs guts to do as a mafia.
But still, please explain.

2) Battle Mage, whats up with you and Jack? Especially this one:

nonetheless, i think you could be genuine town. Jack certainly seems willing to fight your corner.

I mean, yes, if you believe that Tendril has sufficiently defended himself, then an unvote is in order, but the fact that Jack defends him is a dangerous reason to use/follow, since if Jack is scum, then he could lead you around very easily. Beware of that!

3) What Tendril has done. Well, its really reckless to put someone at Lynch -1, yes. It is, however, not necessarily a scumtell. In this game, for example, it happened three times before page four, I think. Two of them were townies, one was scum.

Ona nother note: It is not really a good plan for teh mafia to put someone at Lynch -1, because
a) You'll get heavy Flak for it
b) Someone will unvote faster then you can say "Speedlynch", nixing any benefit you might want to aquire
c) Even if the lynch gets through, you and the hammerer will be under HUGE suspicion on day two. If your partner was the hammerer, one of you will very likely get lynched
If your partner was not the hammerer and not on the wagon, he will have to accuse you, or get heavily questioned for not accusing you on Day Two. And even if he does, in teh interaction between you and your partner, inconsitencies/scumtells will very likely appear.
If your partner was on teh wagon in spot Number two or three, that is the best position, but its still not viable for reasons a) and b).

All in all, its not a viable tactic at all. Reckless? Yes. Should teh person who did it put through teh grinder? Oh yes (if that would not happen, reason a) would disappear, making this play way more viable for scum).
Okay, out of time, will post more tomorrow or Monday, after having read everything and everyone again. If there still questions about Tendril, I'll happily try to explain, although its difficult of course, since I'm not him.

[Battle Mage]

2) Battle Mage, whats up with you and Jack? Especially this one:

nonetheless, i think you could be genuine town. Jack certainly seems willing to fight your corner.

I mean, yes, if you believe that Tendril has sufficiently defended himself, then an unvote is in order, but the fact that Jack defends him is a dangerous reason to use/follow, since if Jack is scum, then he could lead you around very easily. Beware of that!

Lol dont worry-i dont intend to be led around by anyone. Fyi, the comment about Jack wasnt part of my reasoning-more of a mental note that i might want to look back on, should either one of them come up scum.

BM

[Jack]

I don't approve of suspecting people for poor reasons. Lynch -1 isn't as incriminating as they were making it out to be, for the points you raised.

[kabenon007]

jack raises a good point, after all, someone has to be lynched first, and without a lynch -1, we can't have a lynch.

[kabenon007]

this is just my own personal opinion, (but what on this forum isn't someone's personal opinion.) but I find it suspicious that Tendril requested replacement through PM. I saw someone ask for replacement, but they did it in forum. I don't know if PM is the usual way or not, just thought I would throw that out there. Besides, if Tendril requested replace for some reason like a death in the family, I would feel like a total a**.

[vollkan]

this is just my own personal opinion, (but what on this forum isn't someone's personal opinion.) but I find it suspicious that Tendril requested replacement through PM. I saw someone ask for replacement, but they did it in forum. I don't know if PM is the usual way or not, just thought I would throw that out there. Besides, if Tendril requested replace for some reason like a death in the family, I would feel like a total a**.

I don't think that his PM request to leave is particularly suspicious. I stand by my last post in regards to Tendril's suspicion in general, but I don't think requesting to leave via PM is particularly noteworthy. I mean, if he might have thought it was normal to request to leave by PM (I know it is what I would have done until reading what you said).

[kabenon007]

okay. Just checking.