NG 581 - Game Over!

[Incognito]

I went back over the thread and I still don't see anything that screams scum from xtoxm. The fact that all you can say about your opinion is 'look back over the posts- how can you not see it' makes me think that maybe you're trying to form a bandwagon on him, which is a scummy move in any game. Although I find it funny that Xtoxm did not have a stronger response to his votes, I will simply throw a

FOS: xTOXM

and

vote: incognito

My vote was placed more because of what he

hasn't

done in this game. I feel like a lot of his posts have focused mostly on theory instead of actually hunting scum. His posts give me the impression of someone just watching a baseball game instead of actually playing in it. Hence the vote.

Is forming a bandwagon on someone always scummy?

what is an IC?

IC is an abbreviation for inexperience challenged players. It refers to the players here (Patrick, me, and Xtoxm) who have been on the site for longer than three months and have completed at least 5 or more games. We're here to play the game while showing the newbie players the ropes about Mafia.

Official Vote Count

Incognito - 2 (koolkevk, babygirl86)

Avangor - 1 (JamesThePhox)

Xtoxm - 2 (Incognito, Patrick)

Not voting - 4 (Avangor, Snailman8, pinkkitten90, Xtoxm)

5 to Lynch

[pinkkitten90]

awesome thanks

[Incognito]

Yup.

[pinkkitten90]

lol,
Im having so much fun with this.

[JamesThePhox]

JamesThePhox is the only other player that has really pinged the scumdar at all, probably because he's been very heavy on theory and the only thing he posted resembling an accusation couldn't have led to anything good.

Yep, I do like talking about theory, it's all I do in RL mafia. I wasn't very suspicious of anyone, except

Avangor

and his "No Lynch" vote, which I responded to (maybe responded too heavily on). My vote is still on Avangor (originally it was a random vote) for proposing a No Lynch, when a Day 1 Lynch, in my opinion, is a better choice for the Town. I'm sure he has his own reasons, but for now, he seems very scummy to me.

As for other people:

Incognito

- I don't really suspect him much at the moment. His voting seems to be less "I want to kill someone" than "I want to get people talking", which doesn't seem too scummy to me. A townie would want more people talking, so s/he can gather more information.
Of course, he might just be doing a very good job blending with the town.
His vote for

Xtoxm

just seemed to be in response to

pinkkitten90

's posts. It still feels like random voting stage for me. Once votes start to focus on certain people and after hearing accusations and defenses, I'll take that vote into consideration. That is why I overlooked the vote.

Note: This post took a long time, during the span of this post, Incognito gave a reason why he voted for Xtoxm

Koolkvek

- I almost forgot he was playing. He's made one post, which had, what seemed to be, a random vote. Don't know anything about him.

GarbageMan

- No posts. No opinion on him.

Patrick

- Getting a good vibe from him. Even though he said I was on his scumdar, he is adding some pressure on every one (at least, every one who is posting). A person who keeps his suspicions high seems to be more town than mafia. He voted for

Xtoxm

as well, but gave a reason. Not enough reason for me to agree with him, but a reason nonetheless.

babygirl86

- She agrees that no lynch is not a good plan:

oh and by the way I don't think no lynch is the way to go. If we wait until we have more information on who the scum is, we can at lynch them. If we vote no lynch, then we automatically start out with one less town.

Of course, that post led to my really stupid line of questioning. She doesn't seem scummy at the moment.

Xtoxm

- No strong suspicions for him, nor do I believe he's innocent. Like Incognito said, he hasn't really helped in the scum hunting, but not a lot of the players here are (myself included). He might be scum.

pinkkitten90

- No strong suspicions for her, as well. She might be scum for the reason that:

so looking at it either way No lynch does seem a better option.

- She supports No Lynch, which I feel is more helpful for scum this early in the game.
- She hasn't really helped the scum hunting as well, mostly theory.

I've also be on some people's suspect list, yet I don't have a vote or a FoS, which is very interesting. Not that I'm complaining. I haven't really helped the scum hunt much, but here's the summary of what I think of the players so far.

In conclusion, I keep my vote on

Avangor

and have a

FoS: pinkkitten90

.

I hope my posts are shorter than this one. Sorry I couldn't keep them concise.

[JamesThePhox]

Also.

Mod: Any word on GarbageMan?

Not yet. I'll keep you guys in the loop, no worries

Prod: Koolkevk

Done

EBWOP: Sorry for the massive typos in the last post.

[pinkkitten90]

hey it's not my fault i havn't found anything you guys have said helpful in finding scum. a lot of what everyone said has been theory because there isnt much to go on really till this page.

when i said that about no lynch i ment that by going through it mathamatically it would seem better, there was a whole convocation behind that comment that needs to be accounted, Thank you very much.

and at the moment im suspicious of Incognito because a few of the this he has said hasnt added up for me
like:

I feel like a lot of his posts have focused mostly on theory instead of actually hunting scum.

so has a lot of what you have done during this game. Its what happens to begin with untill something happens that begins debates and suspicion.

[Patrick]

Does it bother you then that I accused Xtoxm of the same?

[Avangor]

when i said that about no lynch i ment that by going through it mathamatically it would seem better, there was a whole convocation behind that comment that needs to be accounted, Thank you very much.

Exactly my reasons, the town's chances just seemed higher mathamatically speaking. Safety in numbers and all of that. However, lynching, even randomly, will raise the town's chances to catch the mafia in the next lynch. Hell, even the mafia are helping in that respect.

[Koolkevk]

Ok, sorry for not posting, I always tend to lurk when playing these games. I'll try to start posting as much as I can. I'll just stick with my random vote for now.

[Incognito]

and at the moment im suspicious of Incognito because a few of the this he has said hasnt added up for me
like:

I feel like a lot of his posts have focused mostly on theory instead of actually hunting scum.

so has a lot of what you have done during this game. Its what happens to begin with untill something happens that begins debates and suspicion.

Okay, so yes, I've also discussed a bunch about theory as well. It would be hard for me to ignore the theory discussion considering the fact that it makes up the majority of this particular game at this point and I am one of the ICs here. The difference though is Xtoxm has

only

talked about theory rather than doing ANY form of scum-hunting. Look at his posts in isolation - I don't see any form of interrogative posts that could be used to make an effort to determine someone's alignment. Compare that to my posts and you'll see the difference. I don't see why you're giving him this out when he refused to even defend himself from my vote, and he should at least know better to contribute considering he has some experience around here.

Ok, sorry for not posting, I always tend to lurk when playing these games. I'll try to start posting as much as I can. I'll just stick with my random vote for now.

You do realize some people believe in the policy of Lynch All Lurkers on this site right?

I have to read through and discuss JamesThePhox's post about his suspicions when I get home later.

[pinkkitten90]

hey i was just saying that what you were saying seem hypocritical at the time but know you have explained it, i can see what you mean, It does seem a bit scummy. Thank you for explaining.

[Patrick]

Regarding the whole no lynching thing, think about it this way. Say the mafia kill someone each night, which is not too huge an assumption. At this point, we lose if we lynch wrongly 3 times. If we no lynch today, and emerge with 8 alive tomorrow, we would lose if we lynched wrongly twice. So by no lynching today, we'd be throwing away one of our lynch opportunities. So mathmatically, no lynching isn't better. When you consider that lynches gain information, as well as possibly hitting scum, lynching is definitely best. There are certain situations when it's worth no lynching, but now isn't one of them. If we're in a situation where after 10 or so pages there's no particularly good candidates for lynching, then it means one thing: we need to be playing better.

My vote is still on Avangor (originally it was a random vote) for proposing a No Lynch, when a Day 1 Lynch, in my opinion, is a better choice for the Town. I'm sure he has his own reasons, but for now, he seems very scummy to me.

Do you think she thinks it's a bad move for the town?

Xtoxm, is there any particular reason why you're not doing anything?

[JamesThePhox]

Do you think she thinks it's a bad move for the town?

First off, I should pay more attention, since, I was assuming Avangor was a man the entire time. Sorry, Avangor!

But her opinion on the No Lynching move could be a couple things:
1) She is just being overly cautious Plain Townie worried about miss lynching and wants to know more information (AKA seeing how things turn out during the night).

2) She might have a Pro-Town power role and wants to go into night so she can gather some information, even at the risk of being NK'd.

3) She is Mafia and doesn't want her or she Mafia partner to get lynched Day one without getting a chance to NK someone. Also, Mafia has the best chance at knowing what the setup COULD be in this game, so going straight into night would be helpful in figuring out what other power roles are out there (whether by killing a power role, or knowing someone got protected, etc).

If town is JUST trying to lynch mafia (and not any innocents), then

mathematically

No Lynch would be better.

However

, like you said, Patrick, Town has three lynching opportunities and if Town decides to No Lynch, one of those opportunities will be lot. A lot can be gained from just Day One and even if Town miss lynches on Day One, so much more information will be gathered for finding Mafia than if Town decides to skip into Night phase immediately.

Which is why I believe that Avangor is more likely scum than an innocent.

Maybe she thinks it's a bad move for Town, which would make sense for her to support the bad move IF she were Mafia.

@Koolkevk: Welcome back! What do you think of the discussions thus far?

[Koolkevk]

@Incognito: I know, I try to make meaningful posts as much as possible.

@JamesThePhox: I can agree that a lynch would be best for the town today. I think I keep my vote for incognit but I'll look out for Avangor.

[pinkkitten90]

Just a random question, and not meaning to be rude but Incognito are you male or female cos trying to figure it out is annoying.

[Avangor]

First off, I should pay more attention, since, I was assuming Avangor was a man the entire time. Sorry, Avangor!

Apology accepted james. It is hard to tell stuff about a person on the internet. Besides, I get mislabeled as male a lot, for some reason.
But her opinion on the No Lynching move could be a couple things:

1) She is just being overly cautious Plain Townie worried about miss lynching and wants to know more information (AKA seeing how things turn out during the night).

2) She might have a Pro-Town power role and wants to go into night so she can gather some information, even at the risk of being NK'd.

3) She is Mafia and doesn't want her or she Mafia partner to get lynched Day one without getting a chance to NK someone. Also, Mafia has the best chance at knowing what the setup COULD be in this game, so going straight into night would be helpful in figuring out what other power roles are out there (whether by killing a power role, or knowing someone got protected, etc).

I would claim overcautious(and extremely inexperienced) townie as the truth, but I know no-one will believe me short of being lynched, NKed or via a power role investigation.

Now, the bones of this post: my No Lynch vote

At first, it was simply wanting to wait and gather information, rather than jumping to conclusions and lynching the first person to make an off-kilter post. Obviously I though it was a good move, or I wouldn't have done it

Then, when I was...jumped on for making it, I though about it and came to the conclusion that the townies are much more likely to lynch each other than the mafia. Here I still though it was a wise move.

Now, however, I realise it was an absolutely

idiotic

move, no matter which way you look at it. Personally, townie or scum I've made a huge target of myself, and as a townie given the actual mafia a shield. Townwise, well, the calculations of jamesthephox and others are airtight.

Lynch me if you lot think I'm scum, quite frankly I deserve it.

[Avangor]

EBWOP: The line

But her opinion on the No Lynching move could be a couple things:

should be in the second quote box.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Trying to find a replacement for GarbageMan

[Incognito]

Ha! I'm glad Patrick commented on the No Lynch thing. I was honestly considering placing a vote on him for not commenting on it beforehand.

My two cents: I disagree with the notion that "anyone who suggests the town should 'no lynch' must be the scumz". Some people are so fixated with the idea that this notion is always a scum-tell; I think it might even be listed in the Wiki somewhere as a solid scum-tell. The meta on this is so ubiquitous that I would actually consider it to be a solid null-tell on the tell-o-meter, i.e. Avangor still reads as neutral to me, and her recent response for thinking a No Lynch might be helpful seems reasonable to me.

@Avangor:

What is your previous experience playing online Mafia?

Likewise, pinkkitten90 doesn't come across as scummy to me either for supporting the idea as well. I'm seeing a little, tiny bit of hunting coming from one of her most recent post (albeit it's against me :/) so we'll see if that pattern continues.

Just a random question, and not meaning to be rude but Incognito are you male or female cos trying to figure it out is annoying.

Awww, must I tell you? I kinda like being ambiguous (

I'm a dude.

). Also sorry if I may have come across as a little harsh in my last post; I had a blah day at work.

Incidentally, as an aside, it's kinda nice to have three people in this game who are females. This site seems like one huge sausage fest at times.


P.S. More pressure needed on Xtoxm. kthx.

[Incognito]

Hm, also I was reading through Koolkevk's posting history, and he has one completed game as a townie in which he lurked for a good portion of the game and one non-completed game as mafia in which he lurked to the point of being replaced.

And ouch! for the newb game where he was townie; Glork was scum with Shanba but Shanba was a newb at the time.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Snailman8 replaces GarbageMan, effective immediately

[Avangor]

@Avangor:

What is your previous experience playing online Mafia?

Practically non-existant. This is my second game, my first is a round of kingmaker on another forum that started 2 weeks ago and just made it to night 1 today. But yeah, I like the game. Lots of logic and deducing, though doing it escapes me at present.

[Avangor]

In case anyone is interested,here is that game of kingmaker.

[JamesThePhox]

In case anyone is interested,here is that game of kingmaker.

Holy crap, that game took 25 pages to hit Night 1. That's frightening.

Snailman8 replaces GarbageMan, effective immediately

Thanks for the replacement, Mod

. I would not be surprised if GM was immersed in the game of Super Smash Bros. Brawl, it's a highly addictive game.
@

Snailman8

: Welcome! Please enlighten us more than your predecessor.

Besides, I get mislabeled as male a lot, for some reason.

Because silly people like me don't pay attention.

Lynch me if you lot think I'm scum, quite frankly I deserve it.

No one has gone past 2 votes in this game. I think you're safe. And I daresay this is might be the beginnings of a WIFOM. Just putting that out there.

I disagree with the notion that "anyone who suggests the town should 'no lynch' must be the scumz".

It's cool. I disagree with that notion, as well. No one MUST be anything based on posts (unless a Sane Cop gets a thumbs up/down in this game, then that's probably a MUST). I'm just saying that the No Lynch idea just seems

slightly

more helpful to the Mafia than the town, at this point. So I have

slight

suspicions of

Avangor

and

pinkkitten90

. It's the only thing that has stuck out to me at the moment.

P.S. More pressure needed on Xtoxm. kthx.

QFT

.
@

Xtoxm

: Do you have any suspicions towards anyone? And two people voted for you and one FoS you. Any thoughts on that?

EDIT: Post Preview is my lifesaver.