Mini 1991: Taking Justice Into Our Own Hands (Town Win)

[Eddie Cane]

@luca 100%

not good

[Eddie Cane]

Now fitz is going to fake a v/la.

.-.

[Eddie Cane]

Here's where I'm at.

1.

Alexcellent

has a grand total of 10 posts this game and 0 engagement. He's also currently not voting anyone. I don't know how we're supposed to get a read on a slot that isn't playing.
2. People have praised

Awoo

's early case on Q and I thought it was terrible. I just think a lot of what he points out isn't really alignment relevant or interesting and I'm struggling to figure out how to sort him.
3.

Cedrick

remains my top scumspect but what gives me pause isn't the things he's saying but how he's saying them. He's (1) remaining engaged with the game despite fitz's tunnel when it'd be far easier to mellow out and (2) he seems utterly convicted about what he's saying even if the majority of it is batshit insane.
4. I remain completely underwhelmed by

Riggs

who was my pocket scumspect from early on but like Alexcellent I don't have very much to determine if this is a scumslot or just someone who doesn't really want to play the game. The main difference between the two is that Alex at least shows some depth in his few posts while Riggs is a giant vortex of suck.
5. I used

Havo

to kill RVS early with his goofy declarative statement and after a flurry of posts defending himself he's done basically nothing. It makes me extremely wary because this looks like classic scum UTR behavior; no need to make waves while the town is screaming at each other over Lexa/Cedrick.
6. Speaking of,

Lexa

's gonzo claim and subsequent awful explanation for it combined with a lot of bad posting and recent UTR behavior make me think the others are right about this slot and I'm sorely tempted to move here, if nothing else than to remove a player I want nowhere near lylo and restore some sanity to the game.
7.

Mumble

and

rb

both occupy similar spots in my head where they "feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeel" townish but by god they aren't trying very hard are they and I have this little voice in the back of my head (among the others) whispering to me that they're doing it on purpose to avoid detection.

In other words I really honestly and truly don't know where to go here because if I could firebomb most of the playerlist rn I would happily do so

i feel unappreciated

[Eddie Cane]

he seems utterly convicted about what he's saying even if the majority of it is batshit insane.

Literally nothing I’ve said is batshit insane.

I’m playing smart. Letting mafia resolve the PR claims is smart.

you pushing so hard into letting mafia resolve the claims will make them less likely to resolve the claims. unless, they are tvt, which again is not likely because lexa is probably just scum.

[Papa Zito]

i feel unappreciated

I'm not unhappy with you so you don't go on The List.

[Eddie Cane]

I’d really appreciate it if people not refer to me as insane or crazy. Joking about mental health issues isn’t appreciated. Thank you

get thicker skin holy shit nobody has personally attacked you at all

[Eddie Cane]

Yes you did.

Disagreeing with you isn’t defending Lexa

Yes you have.

I disagree and I explained why.

You and mumbles used bad reasoning. If you used it on somebody else I’d still call it out.

When a player uses non AI things and imply they are AI, I’m calling it out. Just because it happened to be on Lexa doesn’t really mean I’m defending her.

Idk why you even have an obsession with defending people to begin with. Other people are defending others yet you ignore that. You are basically defending mumble and I don’t even know why.

Defending somebody isn’t scummy. You are too experienced to say it is.

this is 99% robb omg

[Eddie Cane]

yet more people town read mumble. Why?

Cause he's town?

Scum slip?

lol

[Eddie Cane]

every time alex posts it's good to meh stuff, nothing bad. i wish it was more frequent but slot is probs town.

[Eddie Cane]

It's sort of meta right. I mean you were investigating another player's games to check for consistency with this game yeah?

Checking if someone could be lying is not meta. It’s fact checking by researching their past metagames and scum hunting based on the results of their past metagames

ftfy

(not an ai post, just poking fun)

[Eddie Cane]

That’s fine. If it’s me or a Pr I’ll take the hit

jesus christ i'm not sure if this is amazing super intelligent lord's gift to the world town or scum

[Eddie Cane]

i feel unappreciated

I'm not unhappy with you so you don't go on The List.

you're unhappy with a lot of people

[Eddie Cane]

2. People have praised Awoo's early case on Q and I thought it was terrible. I just think a lot of what he points out isn't really alignment relevant or interesting and I'm struggling to figure out how to sort him.

they are terrible cases, but they're more likely to come from town imo. it feels genuine. genuinely stupid, but genuine.

[Papa Zito]

i feel unappreciated

I'm not unhappy with you so you don't go on The List.

you're unhappy with a lot of people

ye

2. People have praised Awoo's early case on Q and I thought it was terrible. I just think a lot of what he points out isn't really alignment relevant or interesting and I'm struggling to figure out how to sort him.

they are terrible cases, but they're more likely to come from town imo. it feels genuine. genuinely stupid, but genuine.

This is where I'm leaning, which is why I haven't really pushed there, but I haven't really come up with a good way to pin this down one way or another. Regardless he's not a priority for today.

[Lexa]

aight i'm back

gonna look at mumble for a bit

[Eddie Cane]

would you be unhappy with me if i switch back to riggs

if so, skip the next post

[Eddie Cane]

VOTE: riggs

i need actual content from riggs or there was no point voting there at all

[Lexa]

black panther was v good btw, would recommend

[Eddie Cane]

i drove to ajax to watch it last night and the theater was closed due to a fire and i hit a fire hydrant on the way back home

it was v bad, would not recommend

[Papa Zito]

That sounds like a terrible movie.

[Havo]

Yes you did.

Disagreeing with you isn’t defending Lexa

Yes you have.

I disagree and I explained why.

You and mumbles used bad reasoning. If you used it on somebody else I’d still call it out.

When a player uses non AI things and imply they are AI, I’m calling it out. Just because it happened to be on Lexa doesn’t really mean I’m defending her.

Idk why you even have an obsession with defending people to begin with. Other people are defending others yet you ignore that. You are basically defending mumble and I don’t even know why.

Defending somebody isn’t scummy. You are too experienced to say it is.

this is 99% robb omg

Told ya. Lol.

[rb]

So Awoo why did you stop tunneling eddie cane?

[rb]

See i actually liked awoo as town but now i'm beginning to doubt

But I'm pretty sure papa zito and alexcellent are town so i can live with this tradeoff

[Lexa]

going to

try

and be objective about this

enters game with blah post and empty vote on me. gets an empty vote in return and accuses me of omgus voting. two issues I have with this that led to our spat, first the obvious weak entry that led to a pressure, asking who to vote and ending up on me, honestly probably does this as either alignment but looks scuzzy regardless. 122 though.

Pretty sure we got ourselves a textbook case of OMGUS right there. Can't handle the pressure very well, can you?

There's so many assumptions in there that just don't make sense. Assuming that his vote creates meaningful pressure. Assuming that the pressure is sufficient to cause someone to panic. Assuming that the vote is defensive and not aggressive. It doesn't make sense for him to making these assumptions if he doesn't know my alignment. It reads like he "knows" he's attacking scum and that's why his vote carries pressure and that's why the return vote is defensive. Except he can't know if I'm scum, he can only ever know if I'm town. I'm pretty sure this was the post that set off the whole thing with him, he has all these underlying assumptions set up and the assertion he makes is that the return vote is OMGUS, the immediate response is to attack the attacker, to discredit the vote, to position them as scum. I don't get the mindset where town mumbles plays this way with all the assumptions he has to make to assume his vote is immediately pressuring.

justifies position stating the assumption that some action he did caused some reaction from me. seemingly justifies his previous assumptions i guess? kind of makes his mindset make sense I suppose but i don't know that i see how he gets from that to omgus. idk it feels like a really aggressive position to take that because you did a thing and this person reacted in some way they are definitively as a direct result of your underlying assumption and definitively as an emotional response

is a dick in 132. is a dick in 135. is a dick in 137. this is fun. common to 135/137 is linking his vote to alex's vote on me. weird tack to push on, dunno what he expected to gain by asking someone why they're voting the person they're engaging with but not the person they aren't engaging with for doing the same thing as they are. kinda weird that i see more scum reasoning for pushing like this but more town motivation, a scum would want to benefit from spreading the focus of their opponent and attacking them from multiple angles to spread their defense but would presumably know the tactic wouldn't stand up for long while a town thinks none of that and is pushing for reaction tests i suppose.

ah then there's this

So, in your thought process, me and Alex are both scum? Why not NSG or havingfitz (or rb for that matter)?

Look at every other post leading up to this one. The singular indication that maybe I think he's scum is that I voted his entrance, not a single other post has any indication that he's under suspicion or that I think he's scummy. Not a single one. But now in his mind I not only think he's scummy but also Alex too? Like I just don't understand this whatsoever, what could he possibly be trying to learn from suggesting this, how could he even possibly draw this conclusion? Whereas if he's scum he's creating a situation where he can present that I'm making a weak push on him and Alex that can be easily desconstructed and used to discredit. Example 1 where I know definitively that he's either lying or has some twisted version of reality.

is a dick in 151. 154comes up with some weird reasoning to justify calling my response OMGUS, seems more conf biasy than anything. asdadfasdghf frickin 155 its like he's intentionally trying to conf bias -_-. Obnoxious semantic argument/failure to read properly in 159. and then disappears for a bit.

like i guess i can see worlds here where he's just aggro town conf biasing his way into a read and pushing it with narratives he thinks he's connecting. i just can't understand what he stands to gain as town by making shit up the way he's doing here, makes so much more sense if he's just scum trying to solidify a negative view on a suspect slow

and we're back at 330 with a throwaway question to fitz and follow up at 332/335, nothing of interest here except for engaging fitz in relation to aggro on me. could be a possible scum connection? giving a buddy a natural way to transition into me? Interesting theory actually, fitz had unvoted me at 304 and then after this exchange with mumble comes back onto me at 451. Could just be a result of a supposed TR on mumble, but interesting

Spoiler: possible connections from fitz's iso

entry rvs vote, fine with me switching to vote mumble in 311, town reads in 327, transitions to revote me thereafter, anti-mumble wagon in 498, fully believes mumble's claim as at 524, defends mumble claims at 530 and 557, more of the same from hereon post claim.

Conclusion: definitely possible. would be a pretty aggressive stance to take on defending a partner which ironically has been the exact thing he's accusing cedrick of doing towards me. don't think it makes sense for scum!fitz to so aggressively buddy town!mumble so based on these linkages it would make sense to me that they're either both town or both scum.

back to mumble, humour at 384/387 and then we hit the claim at 484 which in context occurs just after mumble is voted to put him at L-2 where his wagon is now equal to mine

I'm Town Doctor, so you all can fuck the fuck off and vote Lexa.

Eddie is town.

So, problems I have with this claim. To quote mastina from my first game on this site (ironically in reference to my own fakeclaim in that game), evaluate the claim or lie on mindset, circumstance, and intention. How did the claim come about? As a reaction to being put in range of a lynch. What are the circumstances around the claim? Used in accessory to continuing an aggro push on me and to state a TR on eddie. How convenient is the claim? The claim is doctor in a set up without cops.
So we have Mumble's coming up with a claim that is in all likelihood the single claim most likely to guarantee survival and to dissipate the wagon on him (Cedrick, Guy_Named_Riggs, Havo, Lexa, rb), the claim is made as a direct response to being made an equal wagon to the player who he's been targeting all day at L-2, and the claim is used as a base to continue to push on that target. In that moment every single red flag goes up here. The mindset is self-preservation, the circumstance is convenience of claim, and the intention is to get someone else to die.
Compound this with the factors of the claim being umprompted and with no intent to hammer plus the conflict with my own role suggesting a high probability of roles themed around odd/even night balance and in my eyes this is an insanely scummy claim to be making.
Could it be town mumbles? It's possible but there's major questions that raises. If you're a doctor that's a valuable role, why would you out yourself without even being at immediate risk of death? Why is your first response to wagon pressure to claim role? Why wouldn't you pursue some other way of convincing people of your alignment? It's theoretically possible that it's just a town doctor who doesn't want to die but I can't understand why a townie would out themselves like this after not even having posted in the six pages prior.

485 shades rb for not being more active in sorting. 487reacts to my claim - immediate response is to assume it's a counterclaim, why have reason to expect to be cc'd?

is a dick in 489...490...491

last post is 538 with this

I missed that I suppose. Even so without the vote cast and without someone declaring intent it's premature.

Luca said he was going to put me at L-1 -> I was headed to bed -> seeing games/players on this site (see: Not_Mafia), I had absolutely not trust that someone would give intent and everyone would wait. You can think it's premature. I didn't.

Someone who I

know

has directly lied about things I've done or said to push pressure on me comes out at the most convenient moment for him to claim what is in theory the safest role claim in this game* to attack me again is the reddest of red flags. Especially when my own role implies that his claim should at least have a modifier attached.

*idk how 'role power' is seen but i would assume that in a game with no cops doc is pretty up there

I haven't lied about shit you twit.

used to justify claiming prematurely (sure) and to claim he's never lied (objectively false)


summary of above: motherfucking mumble is still scum, his claim is still fucking awful, has done literally nothing this game except aggro me and coast off his claim, and fitz is probably his partner, but you fuckers won't lynch him so i guess we compromise on someone else. yay. there's some worlds that exist where he's just insanely conf biased bad town but what the hell game has he been playing if that's the case


p.s. apparently spoiler tags inside spoilter tags don't work?

[Lexa]

going to look at reactions post-claims, see if anything turns up