Mini Normal 2071 (Game Over!)

[Exilon]

Yes i remember but the impression i got from you was that it was, logically speakong, a weak implication as opposed to a strong one like what it sounded like there. But that by itself means you get the same amount of information from either lynch...

[Exilon]

Nevermind that, i got that wrong
The logic here is
Rui scum implies sash scum
Therefore,
Sash town implies rui town

But if you're so convinced sash is scum, it's probably likely you get more info from a rui flip..

[Garmr]

Also not caring about being lynched like that would go against scums win condition as well. Why does it make them scum and not just a policy lynch?

a) The baseline for 'scum who don't care about being lynched' is still, just as with town, to show up and say 'I don't care about being lynched', except less convincingly because they're scum so it tinges their viewpoint regardless.

That's why RuiRui is explicitly scummy here, because she hasn't done even that.

She's just tried to skate by without drawing any additional attention to herself and hoped to get away with it. I'm pretty sure you are arguing in favour of a hypothetical RuiRui who doesn't actually exist in this thread; she hasn't given us any reason to believe she is the person you are suggesting she might be

b) It still wouldn't be a policy lynch, I think RuiRui's posting has been reluctant to go below the surface, which looks like an unwillingness to actually scumhunt, which is a scum trait

A. So in your opinion rui is even breaking the code that scum have to follow? So why wouldn't rui break it as town as well. That's why I find your logic flawed. It doesn't rule out the possibility of town not being invested enough. It just slaps intent on a action with out considering other possibilities.

B.Rui doesn't seem the type of player to type out much I seen players like this before who don't even post anything more than 1 sentences. I have begrudgingly learned to accept their are players like this and it better to look where and when the votes lays than read to deep into words because it's pretty hollow.


I can see why you actually scum read Rui I just disagree.

[ChannelDelibird]

A. So in your opinion rui is even breaking the code that scum have to follow? So why wouldn't rui break it as town as well. That's why I find your logic flawed. It doesn't rule out the possibility of town not being invested enough. It just slaps intent on a action with out considering other possibilities.

No, it is not that. Listen to me.

If all that is going on with RuiRui is that she doesn't really care if she gets lynched, even though she knows she's one of the major wagons, if she truly is just chill with being lynched as either alignment, she would just rock up and say so. A carefree townie says it. Scum who is either carefree or wants to look like carefree town says it.

By not speaking up, by posting just enough to try to look engaged without actually digging into anything, it is

more likely

that RuiRui is scum trying to be ignored than it is that she simply doesn't mind if we lynch her.

[Exilon]

but guys is it really relevant if ruirui's behaviours come from scum or not the main argument in favor of her lynch is that she hasn't even tried to help town?

[Garmr]

Nevermind that, i got that wrong
The logic here is
Rui scum implies sash scum
Therefore,
Sash town implies rui town

But if you're so convinced sash is scum, it's probably likely you get more info from a rui flip..

yeah just going to note down these points

1-scum have day chat (noticed that due to what I thought excellion gamble was)
2-No one has calling sash town
3-The generic response I don't know if I want to jump on the wagon. With no reason not to scum read sash or town read them.
4-Been ages with out a meaningful post
5-wagon starts to gain steam out of no where.
6-A lot of my town reads are on sash wagon including confirmed town and myself.

May be a bit premature but with all these points combined I think scum stayed silent on the sash wagon to see if it would dissolve naturally and rui rui was their planned counterwagon in their day chat.

Even speaking as someone who thinks the RuiRui wagon is the best one currently available, I really like your thinking here. Well, most of it. I agree that a lack of townreads on Sash would normally be a good indicator

but Sash has done pretty much nothing so far,

so not really anything for scum to feel like they need to townread yet.

So I'll take you for town for now, and still want to see where this RuiRui wagon goes, but I'm keeping my eyes open. What do you think of RuiRui's iso, Garmr?

I find it odd because rui rui is in the same situation as I bolded not doing much and has even less content than sash.

I feel rui rui is more a shot in the dark because their content to me seems so hollow like they are playing the game casually, while sash has scummyness sprinkled in through his post. You can tell they are just pretending to do stuff, There's more scum points to it.

They could be both be scum (rui's null) when taking individually. Together through with how everyone is acting I don't think they are scum together. Unless scum is sacrificing another player for town cred which doesn't make sense this early on as it would seem artificial in the latter parts and the town cred would dissolve fast.

@URAP2 and Sash

Just want to straighten this out you guys think rui rui is scum if sash is town right?

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town. I also doubt a scum rui would actively oppose the counter wagon to their wagon. They haven't relaly done much but they could of saved their own skin earlier and the sash lynch would of gone through.

So that leaves them in two circumstances town that actually think sash is town or scum with sash and not willing to bus for reasons.


So I don't understand why Rui rui is the counter wagon if you think sash is town?

Add both scenarios together and it shows to me rui rui more like town. In scenario A Rui rui is not likely scum with sash. So when you add scenario B were it rui rui can only be scum with sash that means rui rui must be town. Get my logic?

[ChannelDelibird]

but guys is it really relevant if ruirui's behaviours come from scum or not the main argument in favor of her lynch is that she hasn't even tried to help town?

It is important to me, because I believe in this lynch based on RuiRui's posting all Day. I'm not just saying 'welp, dunno, she's not been any help I guess', although that is definitely a reason why people should jump on. I think her behaviour is indicative of scum, and I think people should vote for her because she is likely to be scum. Just saying 'lurker lol' will do for my purposes of getting scum lynched, but I don't want this wagon devalued.

[Garmr]

but guys is it really relevant if ruirui's behaviours come from scum or not the main argument in favor of her lynch is that she hasn't even tried to help town?

It is important to me, because I believe in this lynch based on RuiRui's posting all Day. I'm not just saying 'welp, dunno, she's not been any help I guess', although that is definitely a reason why people should jump on. I think her behaviour is indicative of scum, and I think people should vote for her because she is likely to be scum. Just saying 'lurker lol' will do for my purposes of getting scum lynched, but I don't want this wagon devalued.

But your argument is just Lurker Lol but in fancy way.

[ChannelDelibird]

To the point you raised here, Garmr...

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town.

...I do think that this is a decent argument, although I would note that if RuiRui has gone to ground as scum then she needs to be careful about what she reappears to do. If she skirts by then tries to drop a vote on Sash, and Sash flips town, I think that looks really really bad for RuiRui, and she may have been conscious of this, hoping that we would do that part of the job for her.

[Exilon]

Add both scenarios together and it shows to me rui rui more like town. In scenario A Rui rui is not likely scum with sash. So when you add scenario B were it rui rui can only be scum with sash that means rui rui must be town. Get my logic?

I get the logic and the premises that you used; thanks!

[Garmr]

To the point you raised here, Garmr...

I think it's pretty much the opposite. A scum Rui rui has had all day to jump on the sash wagon if sash was town.

...I do think that this is a decent argument, although I would note that if RuiRui has gone to ground as scum then she needs to be careful about what she reappears to do. If she skirts by then tries to drop a vote on Sash, and Sash flips town, I think that looks really really bad for RuiRui, and she may have been conscious of this, hoping that we would do that part of the job for her.

If she did this I don't think she would defend sash.

[ChannelDelibird]

Eh, I don't know about that. I think if you're not going to attack somebody, a half-hearted defence isn't much different than simply ignoring it (especially if you're hoping for towncred when they eventually get lynched anyway).

[Inferno390]

Oh Rui is L-2.
Hmmm

[Inferno390]

If Sash is scum, partners probably lie somewhere in Channel, Exilon(?), and HRG. Probably 1 in that bunch, but perhaps 2.
If Rui is scum, we know Gamr is scum. Not sure about the third slot.
That’s assuming the other wagon is always Town. If they’re both scum... I dunno who the third is. Fortunately I don’t see a world where both are scum. If both are Town, we’re fricked.

So who do we lynch? I see the value in both.

[u r a person 2]

how about ruirui?

[Inferno390]

I mean
We can
But is it a more valuable lynch than Sash?

[Exilon]

Sash's flip gives us info because of his interactions, which have been plenty; and they have been plenty because he's been engaging. Going into day 2, an alive Sash will still engage, or at least he is likely to do so.
Rui's flip will also give us info, not because of her interactions, which have been sparse, but because of how her counter wagon emerged, and who interacted with the wagon.

So Sash gives us information by virtue of him engaging, while RuiRui gives us information by virtue of her wagon.

My point here is, it's more likely I get more information from an alive sash day 2 by the fact he is participating and therefore autonomously generating information than RuiRui.

[Exilon]

and also if you want to reap the informational profits of her wagon, which are situational to Day1, that ain't happening day2. At least that's how I see it.

[Inferno390]

I mean, let say Rui flips town
This doesn’t explicitly mean Sash is scum.

HOWEVER
Based on how this wagon formed on Sash and the way people are attempting to strongman Sash to the lynch over Rui
I think it’s way more likely that Rui is scum if Sash flips town.
But if Sash is scum, I don’t think Rui is also scum. I highly doubt we have 2 scum wagons based on narrative.
So if Rui flips scum, that prob means Sash is town.
And if Sash is scum, Rui is likely town.

So do we lynch Sash for the gamesolving or Rui on the bet she’s scum?
Because I’m not totally sold on a scum!Rui, though I can see where it’s coming from, and that’s way more than what I get from Sash
But if Rui flips town, I feel like we lose a lot of info from the Sash lynch and I’m not confident enough to say for certainty that we risk it.

[Inferno390]

Sash's flip gives us info because of his interactions, which have been plenty; and they have been plenty because he's been engaging. Going into day 2, an alive Sash will still engage, or at least he is likely to do so.
Rui's flip will also give us info, not because of her interactions, which have been sparse, but because of how her counter wagon emerged, and who interacted with the wagon.

So Sash gives us information by virtue of him engaging, while RuiRui gives us information by virtue of her wagon.

My point here is, it's more likely I get more information from an alive sash day 2 by the fact he is participating and therefore autonomously generating information than RuiRui.

and also if you want to reap the informational profits of her wagon, which are situational to Day1, that ain't happening day2. At least that's how I see it.

This is a good point.
Hmm

[Inferno390]

B.Rui doesn't seem the type of player to type out much I seen players like this before who don't even post anything more than 1 sentences. I have begrudgingly learned to accept their are players like this and it better to look where and when the votes lays than read to deep into words because it's pretty hollow.

I just played a game with Rui as Town.
This is not true.

[u r a person 2]

vote ruirui

gogogogo don't wait don't think just do it

[Exilon]

Shia LePerson2

[Sashaddin]

So do we lynch Sash for the gamesolving or Rui on the bet she’s scum?
Because I’m not totally sold on a scum!Rui, though I can see where it’s coming from, and that’s way more than what I get from Sash
But if Rui flips town, I feel like we lose a lot of info from the Sash lynch and I’m not confident enough to say for certainty that we risk it.

If I make it to Day 2 and Ruirui flips town, I'll probably be the Day 2 lynch with a lot less opposition. I'm not going away...

[Sashaddin]

I know I'm green. From my pov, voting Ruirui makes some sense strategically then. However, I don't see much scum in her 11 posts. What's the best option for me here?