Gameshow Mafia (Reroll): Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

if you reveal me then i'm no longer immune to nightkills

if treestump doesn't flip then there's literally no reason to use it

[RadiantCowbells]

ftr i think that creature's flip hardspews me town and might also spew a fairly universal scumread town but i need to read and i'm too hungover to read

let's take it slow pls

[RadiantCowbells]

The context of this is the Creature/Chemist wagon during the dance phase. RC, do you stand by this? Because that would clear Overkill and Moongrass. And tbh, their votes don't look like buses either considering the timing and the validity of the other wagons:

i hard townread overkill anyway. moongrass i really want to read d2 again because it's possible that they're town, i don't really remember mbaki's creature push

[RadiantCowbells]

ftr i think that creature's flip hardspews me town

How?

- Dannflor

i don't think that i would have dealt with scumbuddy creature the way that i did this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

basically i want to read through mbaki's shit and figure out if he was really trying to lynch creature or if he was trying to make it look like he was trying to lynch creature

but i'm not doing that now

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm reasonably confident from what i remember that i will be able to sort moongrass 100% off of d2 alone. assuming that he's town b/c if he's scum we've won anyway
i'm still town
nancefloor still locktown
0verkill locktown

skygazer/taly i'm pretty sure is town

leftovers

chennis
titus
timedevil
maria

[RadiantCowbells]

doing 1 of 4 today means losing autowin if we hit scum today so that's not a thing

[RadiantCowbells]

chennis/td/maria

[RadiantCowbells]

doesn't matter just need to flip scum

[RadiantCowbells]

that makes me scumread the slot more not less

[RadiantCowbells]

i want to lynch chennis as of right now

[RadiantCowbells]

i think that maria would have subbed out of this game if she were scum

[RadiantCowbells]

that's most of my read on her.

[RadiantCowbells]

the easiest answer here is chennis/time devil
titus has a lot of underrated scum equity as well imo

note this is all under the assumption that moongrass is town which i haven't independently verified yet

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean i guess

i don't really have a good reason to townread maria

But I thought Maria liked playing scum?

no lol and i think she would have preferred to sub out than to try to win by lurking

[RadiantCowbells]

i mean we don't need to find 2 scum we just need to find 1

[RadiantCowbells]

i have seen scum!titus hardclaim a guilty on her scumpartner when that scumpartner was a universal townread

[RadiantCowbells]

i think creature would have told his team to bus him towards the end.

[RadiantCowbells]

For

reasons

I don't think that Chenn/Moon is SvS so if you're sure on that 3 then TD is the guaranteed scum lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=71410

[RadiantCowbells]

i dunno

i still feel inclined to go off of my own individual chennis read over any other info that we have

But he was adamant about not being in veto. If he was being VOLUNTARY bussed, he wouldn’t have been so survivalistic/self-pres.

/shrug

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm not willing to lose the game because maria's scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

Dann are you scumreading me?

[RadiantCowbells]

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't see why you think anyone would have killed you over succinct

[RadiantCowbells]

I think TD wanted you protected so that I would be open

Nancy scum aren't scared of you, no offense

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not saying they're right to not be

But I don't think any possible combo of players kills you last night. People have been pushing reveal into you all game. You're only throwing your reads off by treating 'i wasn't nightkilled' as a meaningful data point.

[RadiantCowbells]

mafia is an awful game tbh

[RadiantCowbells]

That Poe logic only applies if you think that Maria/Titus are never scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok so what do you want to do

[RadiantCowbells]

Why not treestump this jw

[RadiantCowbells]

TD makes the most sense as the chennis partner anyway so sure I guess

VOTE: treestump

[RadiantCowbells]

I guess what I’m feeling is that nance and RC are leading because RC helped design this game so everyone is deflecting to him and nance has had a strong presence with lots of posting so everyone has them in their townblock as well

However, I don’t feel that two people in charge of town makes for a strong and unified town and I feel like scum is going to get away with this game

When did I help design this game wtf

[RadiantCowbells]

I think regardless of TDs alignment they should be removed so

VOTE: lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

wow

[RadiantCowbells]

Does Baezu go there as scum? I'm skeptical

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok my head is cleared.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Titus

[RadiantCowbells]

It's Titus Moongrass

[RadiantCowbells]

Unless it's Maria I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's autowin even without having to rely on me being town if we take TD as cleared here

[RadiantCowbells]

How many teams are even possible?

Moongrass/Titus
Moongrass/Maria
Chennis/Maria
Chennis/Titus

[RadiantCowbells]

I wouldn't even mind doing a venge lynch on Moongrass / chennis since I'm pretty confident exactly 1 of them is scum

[RadiantCowbells]

Talyscum doesn't feel like a thing

[RadiantCowbells]

I dunno

I thought it was TD Chennis

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm watching the raptors game

[RadiantCowbells]

There's so much that said it was TD chennis lol

[RadiantCowbells]

Btw you had to know lynch was already hammered

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok then

VOTE: Moongrass

[RadiantCowbells]

Titus you're not good at mafia

[RadiantCowbells]

Btw both of the slots that are potential scumbuddies to Moongrass are voting TD after baezu cleared them

[RadiantCowbells]

lololol

Scum could never have lynched me and if someone put me in arena the 1 would die

next

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm done reading Titus posts, I'm pretty sure I don't actually have to sort her.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, can we lock town TD?

- Dannflor

I think so yes

you know her better than me I'm assuming though

[RadiantCowbells]

What I think you're missing is that creature chemist pairing was always going to die, and Moongrass was always going to die if they don't pick them

Everyone also agreed that creature chemist had to die so like scum could have had Creature or Chemist challenge and try to bait a mislynch but that was really their only out

I think they had Moongrass do it b/c they thought it would make him look better

Look Dann I realize there is no situation in which you will take me as town and lucky for you, TD nullifies the need for that!

[RadiantCowbells]

Literally it doesn't matter anymore

Overkill NF skygazer TD townblock is solve

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok then we have double plus autowin

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Titus is actually scum but it wouldn't be the first time she scumsided so hard that I misread her as buddies with someone who pocketed her.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not saying that to be mean. It's just true and I've had to watch too many wasy games lost because Titus would rather lose and stick it to me than win by treating my reads like they're at all relevant

[RadiantCowbells]

She said something a couple pages ago about how town wouldn't be able to lynch [deepwolfme] without her, when she had

never

successfully had me lynched as scum, has lost to me a dozen odd times as scum, and when she has mislynched me or otherwise thrown the game for town by ignoring my reads about eight time historically and I wanted to vomit

[RadiantCowbells]

Idk I guess 'wow it's hard to lynch RC as scum but I've successfully screwed over a ton of games for town him' doesn't seem glorious enough for the self image that Titus wants to have so she elects to replace it with delusion. It's not just a scum thing either. Ppl say she's hard to read but that's only because nothing she says is based off of reality regardless of her alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean she clearly thinks she's hot shit so she's scum for defending Moongrass right? Not that it actually matters anymore but like ouch

[RadiantCowbells]

Limestones obvtown right

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean that's 1 example. There's so, so many
And Titus even had the gall to criticize me in the postgame of that one for pushing my own reads instead of hers, when every single read she had all game was wrong and I led on scum D1 and tried to lead on another scum for the rest of the game.

If Titus doesn't like the takeaway, the lesson she should be learning from a game, she ignores it and blames everyone else. Kind of like someone else!

[RadiantCowbells]

Why would Titus ever be the NK

[RadiantCowbells]

Or was that sarcasm sorry I am not in the most perceptive of moods

[RadiantCowbells]

Sry sky

I'm tired.

[RadiantCowbells]

Sky vote Moongrass please

[RadiantCowbells]

Ty friend

[RadiantCowbells]

Knowing I'm not going to die is rly freeing

Postie!

[RadiantCowbells]

Someone from another game who Titus errantly lock town read because I called him scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

he hasn't flipped and I don't have much to say until he has.

[RadiantCowbells]

was I wrong that moongrass was RAS?

[RadiantCowbells]

call a friend requires us to do a normal lynch which is incredibly suboptimal.

it's reveal -> 1of4 -> venge from here

[RadiantCowbells]

actually if we flip scum we should call a friend but it's optimal to try to flip town with reveal.

[RadiantCowbells]

"angle shooting you"

[RadiantCowbells]

i think chennis is scum and partner is maria or titus

i want to reveal in [maria/titus]

[RadiantCowbells]

there's literally no benefit to treestump over any of the other options.

[RadiantCowbells]

also, I'm no longer bulletproof if I get revealed in case you didn't read the OP.

so, how about that moongrass lynch?

[RadiantCowbells]

i think maria reveal is more valuable than titus reveal regardless of what she flips.
i have no mental desire to have to try to push a lynch through on maria right now.

i still can't see skygazer scum. i still don't think TD ate ever comes from scum. i'm scared of titus maria i guess but if we hit scum we can still venge and clear both slots

iow, i don't think we can lose from here unless we play suboptimally, and following my plan doesn't involve anyone in this game having to trust me to be town aligned.

[RadiantCowbells]

actually untrue: if we flip scum today then autowin involves assuming me to be town.

to that end, i want to be uninvolved in the decision of who to flip between Titus and Maria so that if we flip scum that decision can't be pushed as my responsibility.

[RadiantCowbells]

i think that titus realizes the mechanics well enough to understand that reveal being pushed on her is optimal if scum so i'm not reading into that.
anyway. can everyone give their thoughts on who is

more likely

to be town in titus and maria? if you think they're both scum, pick your weaker scumread. if you think they're both town, pick your stronger townread, etc.

[RadiantCowbells]

adding to the list: everything that i've said about overkill still stands.

[RadiantCowbells]

scum can't win unless they convince you both to scumread me and to not trust my townreads

[RadiantCowbells]

3 votes for maria

[RadiantCowbells]

why are you even bringing up quiz right now

[RadiantCowbells]

RC you and Maria's implicit self vote

No reason for her to not support herself, like, regardless of alignment

[RadiantCowbells]

I feel a lot more motivated without NF and MG

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I think she forfeited any right to crying about being flipped for being Maria when she lurksacked the entire game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Do you want the mathematical explanation of why flipping town is optimal today?

If we go for scum and hit scum that means I win as deepwolf. Is that a chance you're willing to take?

[RadiantCowbells]

No it's @TD

[RadiantCowbells]

revealing maria and titus and hitting town gives us a townbloc of me/rc/[titus/maria]

rc doesn't get nk'd, revealed doesn't get nk'd, meaning i get nk'd

we'd have a pool of chennis/[maria/titus]/0verkill/td

uhhh if we reveal scum then we venge in our non revealed pool and if they're scum it's auto and if they're town they can just venge the revealed scum, right??

This still only effectively gives us 3 flips VS 4

[RadiantCowbells]

If everyone agrees I'm town I would want to reveal Chennis because all my reads are based on him being scum and if I'm wrong there I need to reevaluate hard.

[RadiantCowbells]

actually it turns out that it's significantly -equity to venge before 4 way

[RadiantCowbells]

safer kinda

[RadiantCowbells]

actually we want to venge first

[RadiantCowbells]

actually chennis is still never optimal flip we want town no matter what

[RadiantCowbells]

wheee

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: reveal

[RadiantCowbells]

it was never actually about the 1 of 4 u get me

[RadiantCowbells]

like it's just another lynch

could use call a friend instead for the same reason u know

[RadiantCowbells]

i've avoided triggering myself by rereading the very early game pre-confbias rep out but i should probably do that.

[RadiantCowbells]

i don't actually have to post thoughts to not get scumread right

[RadiantCowbells]

do you understand why it's optimal to flip town here?

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm really glad i don't have to townread anyone currently posting.

[RadiantCowbells]

someone hammer reveal

[RadiantCowbells]

i think maria is scum and we should be flipping titus for the higher odds of a town flip that locks the game in and vengelynching Maria tomorrow
she's not scum with TD so even if she kills a townie we can just kill chennis and win the next day.

[RadiantCowbells]

is there any way we can play around Maria/TD

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Titus

at any rate

[RadiantCowbells]

you gave me so much shit when I refused to be lie detected in be yourself but in this situation when it's

demonstrably better to flip town

you don't want to be flipped.
don't believe that's town you, or you're a massive hypocrite.

[RadiantCowbells]

you can be revealed or you can be vengelynched. idc which. if you wanted a spot in the townblock you could have played this game and earned it. i've given you several

hard

townreads in recent games where you showed up to play. you did nothing in this one. i'm not playing a strategy that leads to a loss if you're scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

for no reason

[RadiantCowbells]

I think Titus has the lowest odds of being scum of everyone who is ever scum in this game.

That's why I want to flip her: we flip town, we don't lose this game even if town turns on me in late game.

[RadiantCowbells]

I've already explained why it's optimal to flip town. Maria never argued that it's optimal to flip town. No one has argued that it's optimal to flip town. Maria agrees that Titus is the likeliest town in the general scumpool and hasn't suggested pushing on 0verki11 or Skygazer, whose being presumed town makes a town flip game breaking.

Titus you should vote Chen with me. Same goes with Sky. I get you want to lead Titus but I won't let you get lynched and I'm pretty sure we have auto win soon if we follow dead reads along with our own town block. I think 0verkill is most likely town if we follow dead as well so that leaves RC/Chen/Time. I know we prob can't reveal RC because he'll throw a fit. So I think if we got someone like Chen who will either be a ML or scum who slips through the day it's the most optimal here

I think that Chen is her partner and she's trying to get towncred for 'leading on her partner' even though it's optimal for scum to flip scum today.

[RadiantCowbells]

rank + bulletproof RC = good stuff. that's why we're not revealing me btw.

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

it's also why I wouldn't have pushed to be made bulletproof as scum, but from this point on we can clear everyone not confirmed besides me and one other then rank me with the last player and it's game over no matter who the remaining scum is. all we need is one townflip. on a player that you agree is locktown. wow!

[RadiantCowbells]

this IS the autowin strat. you're just not voting for it because it's not win for your faction

[RadiantCowbells]

we can't venge in f3.

that's why we're venging at 6 way.

[RadiantCowbells]

we rank me + whoever is left that isn't townblock at that point and then I end up cleared and we lynch that person

[RadiantCowbells]

Choose by majority vote a group of two players. During that Night, the Mafia, in addition to submitting the kill, must produce an ordered list of those players such that any Mafia aligned players appear above any town aligned players in that list.

nope

stop trying to argue with the strat

[RadiantCowbells]

surprisedpikachu

[RadiantCowbells]

[RadiantCowbells]

i get ranked with scum with only 1 scum left
they have to put me on top of the list and thus confirm me as town and they also can't kill me after confirming me because BP
then we lynch them

does rely on assumption of 0verki11 and skygazer town but I'm taking those to the bank and if I'm wrong there I wasn't ever winning and townies shoulda been townier.

[RadiantCowbells]

we're venging you because i'm reasonably confident that you're not scum with TD and I'm not confident in any other !pairings in the lynchpool.

[RadiantCowbells]

sorry that you rolled scum in this setup Maria.

[RadiantCowbells]

Taly wasn't scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

and that's not just a me read

I hard townread Taly
Nancy individually hard townread Taly
Dannflor individually hard townread Taly

I think Mbaki is the only town player in this game who scumread that slot.

I guess PB as well but PB also thought me and nancy were scum so their reads are pretty ignorable

[RadiantCowbells]

we're not venging chen since his scumflip doesn't make clear who his partner is.
if you flirt with me i'll consider venging TD over you though

[RadiantCowbells]

just to be transparent about that

assuming that Titus flips town, because if she doesn't this is all entirely meaningless

i think that the scumteam is either {Maria/Chennis} or {TD/Chennis}

if we vengelynch Chennis he's going to kill a confirmed townie and we can't ranksort all 3 of me/maria/TD

if we vengelynch Maria, if she's scum I know it's chennis tomorrow, if she's town I know it's both of them and whichever she venges we can rank me with the other and win the next day
same works with TD

so, yeah.

[RadiantCowbells]

hmm

i'm lynching TD instead unless you flirt with me

[RadiantCowbells]

boring.

Can everyone submit shortened night asap

[RadiantCowbells]

i will be very triggered if this is town

[RadiantCowbells]

err scum

[RadiantCowbells]

higazer

[RadiantCowbells]

this might be goodbye

*sniffs*

i love you.

[RadiantCowbells]

we r vengelynching maria btw if that wasn't clear

[RadiantCowbells]

look how not maria's scumbuddy i am

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: venge

This (targeting Maria) is technically suboptimal but uh I really don't want to have a chance of Maria convincing town to venge town and I want even less to have to push a lynch on her after so

This is the low stress solution plus she already agreed chennis is lockscum if she's town

[RadiantCowbells]

titus can you vote venge

[RadiantCowbells]

Before you clear players for voting in tandem

[RadiantCowbells]

Eh I don't actually have any particular desire to fight with you about reads

You don't know how much that you don't know

[RadiantCowbells]

Wrong

We rank in 4 way

[RadiantCowbells]

Also wrong

[RadiantCowbells]

Rank will be amazing in 4 way with a bulletproof alive because it guarantees that 3 way contains a clear and a 1v1 for the last scum slot

Rank now is blah

[RadiantCowbells]

wrong

6 alive

venge

4 alive

rank

3 alive

lynch

[RadiantCowbells]

If we call Nancy that means sacrificing the ability to actually determine my alignment mechanically via rank and not having to deal with your shit anyway so... no?

[RadiantCowbells]

Vote venge before you go

[RadiantCowbells]

Your process ok

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok can u hammer

[RadiantCowbells]

overkill

[RadiantCowbells]

When did nancefloor think that I could be scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

Now let's end the day I'm super over this game.

Since I’m very likely to be the next NK, I want to get as much solving into this game as possible, so that town doesn’t fuck things up with either an RC or Maria mislynch and your red flip spews TD/Chenn town.

I’m going to assume that no one in their right mind will ever entertain, even the extremely remote possibility of a scum!Sky, although, I have no doubt, Titus would unsuccessfully try to push that. Overkill11 is clear by VCA by staying on Creature/Chemist wagon.

NF play as though you know Moon flips scum because Moon flips scum

The solve isn't hard

We powerlynch Titus following Moon scumflip, because no one else can possibly be his partner, other than Titus. If green, than 1of4 but Moon is once again treating me like an idiot by expecting me to buy into his RC OMGUSsing, when it’s so freaking obvious from his play today that this is 100% town!RC here, means you’re probably right.

Moon incorrectly assumed from my shock and confusion that my RC locktown read had been shaken. No, it only strengthened because his play today is classic town!RC. I just hopes he trusts that my Maria read is also not wrong.

Moon ing in response to my Maria slot towncasing, really pinged me hard. In what world does town!Moon consider it boring to prevent a potential mislynch? He’s ing, because he really doesn’t gaf about helping to solve this game or he’d be grateful to me for trying to stop a potential mislynch. No, all he cares about is Titus apparently, eventhough her play contributed heavily to BEF mislynch, to an obvtown slot unnecessarily dying, a wasted 0 information coalition and another subsequently wasted arena to clean up the gratuitous mess of that wasted 2nd coalition.

Dann called me scum at one point the entire game, and changed his mind like a day after. Nancy spent the entire game 100% sure I was town

Why are you twisting things

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm concerned that you're scum right now trying to prey off of Titus's paranoia of me to win today by mislynching me. To lose off of a venged today we need to be wrong on the lynch AND the venge. Call a friend means we are in Mylo and we lose if we hit wrong and we lose the lylo abuse

Titus doesn't understand mechanics but I think that you do, Baezu.

[RadiantCowbells]

I was waiting for someone to try to set me up after Skygazer flipped.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok 6995 is a scumclaim

Skygazer never ever doubted me
NF were both hard townreading me when they died, dannfloor literally made a single post in the game where he thought I was scum

Let's see what nancefloor actually has to say

VOTE: call a friend

[RadiantCowbells]

6997 is also a scumclaim.

None of these posts are how town talk to me, ever.

[RadiantCowbells]

Every slot that was reading me as town died in scums 3 kills (succinct, skygazer, nancefloor) then as soon as Titus brought up the possibility that I could be scum TD 180s from supporting the venge Maria because it's Maria/Chennis plan to I knew it was RC all along.

[RadiantCowbells]

6995 is incredibly fake as well, between the 'hmmm', the ellipses, the fact that she suddenly decided Chennis was lockscum but is currently trying to push the Lynch in my direction instead when my own suggested strategy gave mechanical lock win if Chennis was scum

Also no one says 6997 to perceived scum me with that kind of confidence ever. You can go through all my games. TD wouldn't be this jubilant about me being scum here and I think that them being jubilant about the situation is obvious: they're happy because Titus is handing them a chance to win a game that was essentially locked.

[RadiantCowbells]

Either way, there are two more scum so let’s put aside our bickering for now, hope that nancefloor sorts it out and lynch chenn- an actual confscum

Nah you just don't like.me firing back at you.

[RadiantCowbells]

Also I can show y'all game after game of this kind of shit from scum: they hop on a townie who decided to scumread me but then when called out on it they back off because they don't want the fight.

[RadiantCowbells]

How do you go from that level of confidence and excitement about having 'solved' me to deciding another player is lockscum and going after them instead?

I hardly ever get a chance to be involved in one and certainly never with the likes of you <3

I probably won’t end up coming out as town in this exchange but it’s fun either way

[RadiantCowbells]

You made one AtE that made Dann and I not want to consider you as scum and then you went back to not doing anything. And it was pretty gross AtE but then again maybe you didn't even write it.

Maria, interested in your thoughts here.

[RadiantCowbells]

If nancefloor agrees that I'm town she also knows my reads are better than hers and you had BY FAR the worst associatives with both flipped scum of everyone in the game. I was just too quick to write you off as town for that AtE.

You still haven't responded to the fact that you're lying about dead players reads to spin me as scummy and if that's your town play then I guess town is losing that game and I'm fine with that.

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you like trying to pretend you don't understand how the strategy I was trying to take was autoloss if I was town? I was made bulletproof earlier in the game.

[RadiantCowbells]

If I was scum. Not scumslip, I make it all the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

He's saying literally the exact opposite

He's saying that you were trying to abuse the fact that people are paranoid about me because of who I am to spin a mislynch onto me.

Both the people locktownreading me over the last two nights died and then Titus calls me scum and your slot 180ed from 'definitely chennis and Maria' with a side of Overkill and Maria to 'yeah RC is scum I knew it all along.'

Or I don't know.

Why don't we ask Dannflor directly?

[RadiantCowbells]

I went from locktown to scum the moment that the conftown expressed that they might be interested in lynching me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you didn't even fake a train of thought

Just bam RC is scum

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're town vote vengeful.

[RadiantCowbells]

anything besides vengeful = we lose if we mislynch.
vengeful = two tries and we clear off two slots from the poe and scum only gets the nightkill that they would have gotten anyway if we flip them, and then get rank after.

VOTE: vengeful

[RadiantCowbells]

meh

i thought it was never you/maria until that last bit.

[RadiantCowbells]

hmm

sure

[RadiantCowbells]

oh baby

[RadiantCowbells]

please don't club me

[RadiantCowbells]

Did you use time devilry or was it only 30 seconds?

[RadiantCowbells]

Baby when I look into your eyes it feels like time just stops.

[RadiantCowbells]

Bye!

It's hard to come up with time related ones

[RadiantCowbells]

if you lose the game doing so you promise to never again fuck with my strategies for winning the game

[RadiantCowbells]

I want you to stop and think about this question for a while before you respond to it.

Do you think that you're a better town player than I am?

[RadiantCowbells]

That's an awful lot of subjectivity.

Let's use northsidegal instead of me since you obviously have a 'thing' about me.

Do you think that you are better than Northsidegal in any realistic situations?

[RadiantCowbells]

not all players are equal dudette.

NSG hates and resents being put in the town leader position so I don't treat games with her differently but if she wants to lead a lynch and I townread her I don't fight her out of stubborn pride. we all want to win.

Scum can win today with a lynch and incorrect venge.

so your solution to that is to take away the ability to get a venge at all in favor of getting input from Nancefloor that we all basically already know?

[RadiantCowbells]

i'll accept any venge/lynch pairing that isn't exactly Maria -> Overkill or vice versa.

[RadiantCowbells]

I want to lynch Maria and if she's town have her target Chennis.
If I'm scum I can't be scum with both 0verkill and Maria.

Feel free to set a venge pairing that doesn't target both players.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ok.

I'm still suggesting vengelynching Maria ftr.

i think there's more paths to defeat from keeping her alive than anyone else.

[RadiantCowbells]

As the scumteam?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think that's the single most likely scumteam yes

but at the same time, if that's the scumteam that makes maria the single best venge lynch target

[RadiantCowbells]

If Maria's not scum, then she is optimal to kill because the scum are very obvious from her perspective, she's agreed that Chennis at least is scum, and that means scum don't get to vengekill you and remove a clear. If Maria's scum, she's optimal to kill because she's Maria and hasn't played enough to be readable.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think chennis is scum basically 100% of the time regardless of anything else, and is therefore the safe venge.

[RadiantCowbells]

have been saying that for a very long time.

also I think that me/TD is fairly obviously not the scumteam? so if that's what you're concerned about, you shouldn't be.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hammer venge?

[RadiantCowbells]

idr want to post my full thoughts because mariar will get pissed at me regardless of alignment.

[RadiantCowbells]

if you're town you can't hold this game against me as a misread.

regardless of your alignment i wish you played this game more.

[RadiantCowbells]

anyway

VOTE: Maria

[RadiantCowbells]

Do I unvote and give Titus a chance to give thoughts in case she's gone

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean.

I was referring to her self hammering.

Interesting that you're not concerned about that.

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

ok

[RadiantCowbells]

If anything the lack of resistance suggests she's scum: it's only auto lose if she gets venged by someone in the lynchpool. If scum gets lynched they can venge Titus

[RadiantCowbells]

Or scum think she's town whose gonna venge wrong I guess

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: MariaR