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Post Post #850 (ISO) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:43 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

@SirB, why do you say 2birds "quick hammered". It was 33 pages in and what less than a day to deadline?? I don't see that as a quickhammer whatsoever, plus what difference does it make if you are the one hammering or he is? I find that whole accusation pretty odd to be honest and defenitely could be scumbuddies distancing. Not saying it is, just it seemed odd to me.


Quickhammer was probably the wrong word and I was typing on a phone so couldnt do a quote example like this:

me #802

I'll hammer whoever is at L-1 (unless its Draken cause then I cant hammer as I am already on that wagon) But I'll only do it when I absolutely must (
3pm tomorrow 2 hours before the deadline
) So TGS, 2bird and Draken you have til then, unless someone wants to hammer now.


Ok thats a statement of policy lynching. That regardless if I think the person is scum or not I will hammer whoever needs hammering.

Then RB reveals he's a power role and the discussion goes in to overdrive.

and 10 posts later

I'm really sorry about this TSGRaaize, but a VT lynch is preferable to no lynch. No hard feelings I hope.

Vote: TSGRaaize


2birds lynches TSG under the same justification that I already said in bold 10 posts prior.

It bugs me that he uses policy lynch as his reason.

he might have disagreed with me but a policy lynch is something of a discussion point. One would expect a warning prior to lynching. At least to the lynchee as you dont think they are scum so you might want them to say something or push something before going to the gallows. Hence I used the term quickhammer.

I'd like answer to my question. Why no warning? Why then? We had a timer that tells us exactly how much time is left, there was no risk of it running out or one of us not being here before it ended.

Depending on that answer I will make my next call.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #851 (ISO) » Tue Oct 25, 2011 12:44 pm

Post by Beck »

meh, one of draken or 2b1s is scum imo, and edge was after 2b1s sort of so..

Vote 2b1S
Beck =/= The band
Beck = a football player

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Post Post #852 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:06 am

Post by Thomith »


Votecount 2.3

2birds1stone (1) Beck,
Rainbowdash (0)
Beck (0)
Johman (1) Palmar,
bvoigt (0)
Draken (0)
Sir Bastion (0)
weirdbeard (0)
Scumhunter (0)
Shinki (0)
Palmar (0)

Not Voting (9) 2birds1stone, Rainbowdash, Johman, bvoigt, Draken, Sir Bastion, weirdbeard, Scumhunter, Shinki,

With 11 Alive it takes 6 to lynch.

V/LA's:
None

Replacing:
None

Prodding:
None

Day 2 Deadline 8th November 2011



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Post Post #853 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:32 am

Post by Shinki »

In post 772, 2birds1stone wrote:
TSGRaaize is town.
Mafia do one of three things when playing towards their win condition: Push for mislynch; try to avoid lynching; try to blend in.

He has not pushed for any lynch (and therefore, not pushed for a mislynch); he has joined a few wagons and he has made a few reads (mostly town), but he has not actually been particularly vocal or enthusiastic about any lynches.

Second, he has not been opposed to lynching. He has foolishly left his vote hanging on a few occasions, but he has brought his vote back into the game now we really need a lunch, and he has voiced support for some (and not always the most popular) wagons.

Finally, he has not attempted to blend in. He didn't just lurk past RVS, he informed us all that he would lurk through RVS. He has not sheeped every single strong wagon, and he has not kept his votes on popular wagons. He has made a ridiculous number of "I will catch up soon" posts, whereas scum would be more cautious.

Draken, on the other hand, has attempted to lurk wagons away, say the bare minimum in his defence (and sometimes less than the bare minimum), and the only vote's he's made are the early game Weirdbeard wagon (blending in), a mid-game Beck vote, and the recent wagon against me (he sort of had to though, I'd vote me over TSGRaaize too). Beck is an interesting vote, as there was no Beck wagon at the time; however, he posted after I labelled Beck probable town. This is either honest scumhunting on his part or pushing for a mislynch; pushing for a mislynch makes sense as he backed off quite fast when questioned. Town who honestly believe someone is scum don't back off that quickly.


In post 812, 2birds1stone wrote:RBD's scum, just putting it out there. Everyone think about the claim a little and tell me she's town. I'll talk more about it D2 if she's alive.

I'm really sorry about this TSGRaaize, but a VT lynch is preferable to no lynch. No hard feelings I hope.

Vote: TSGRaaize


...

Vote: 2birds1stone
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Post Post #854 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:35 am

Post by Beck »

^
[x] Gets it
[ ] Doesnt get it
Beck =/= The band
Beck = a football player

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Post Post #855 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:38 am

Post by Sir Bastion »

We get it but it feels too obvious so I'd like to see a defence first.
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nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.
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Post Post #856 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 2:53 am

Post by Beck »

I keep getting this weird vibe from rainbow, she seems to be playing how I know her to but I feel she is lacking the same kind of bite in her arguments. , I know it's wifom but it is in the back of my mind wondering why scum didn't kill her. I realize there are some people I forgot are playing the game. Shinki, scum hunter, and Palmer. Please be poastngs Moore mkay?
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Post Post #857 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:25 am

Post by Palmar »

Sure, I can support a 2b1s lynch

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Vote: 2b1s
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Post Post #858 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:44 am

Post by Johman »

No, 2b1s is obvious newbtown and one of my strongest townreads. GTFO of the wagon.

And Palmar, you are a very annoying person. For the last time, can you please try to play the game?

Btw, I know I'm not contributing much currently. I'm sorry for this and I do intend to scumhunt more during the next days.

~J
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Post Post #859 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:56 am

Post by Palmar »

Sure, when you're dead I'll contribute.

Until then I don't have to, I have found two very likely scum.
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Post Post #860 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:59 am

Post by Johman »

Explain why I'm scum then.

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Post Post #861 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:00 am

Post by Palmar »

Probably because the host used some kinda random number generator and it assigned you scum.
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Post Post #862 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 5:17 am

Post by Beck »

I lol'd cause the 2 names at the bottom said Charlie, Palmar

It remindended me of the Famous Reno, NV chef Charlie Palmer

Johog, can you explain how he is newbtown?

P. Edit reaally? Palmar, you need more than that
Beck =/= The band
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Post Post #863 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:47 am

Post by 2birds1stone »

@SB: I couldn't be sure that you'd hammer; computers/phones die at the last minute etc.. Everyone knew the hammer was going to fall, and I didn't think it would matter who the hammer came from. There were only a few hours till deadline, Draken lynch was inviable, and there was no chance of my wagon building up to its former greatness. You later rebutted some of this (despite the fact I hadn't posted it yet) by saying that there was no risk of the timer running down without someone being there for the hammer -- frankly, I don't trust everyone here to hammer, there are at least three players here who would benefit greatly from a no-lynch, and a few other players who have qualms about hammering town.

@Scumhunter: Beck, Shinki, and Bvoigt are above the line for me because bvoigt's pure and simple obvtown IMO, Shinki's null except RBD said town (I suspect buddying) AND Protector was firm townread, and Beck because he jumped on my wagon after the PL Johman vs. Palmar thing. I'm not saying that they're definately town (other than bvoigt), I'm just saying I don't think they should be considered for lynch today unless they scumslip.

@Shinki: Yes Shinki, I killed a firm townread on the grounds that he was VT and the deadline's coming up. VTs are expendable.

@Palmar, you're annyoing for two reasons. One, YOU'RE NOT DOING ANYTHING; two, I really like to think you're scum but I can't see you on the same scumteam as RBD or Draken.

Now, I tried posting this yesterday, but my computer died. RBD outed herself as a PR the other day to protect a claimed VT; I'm honestly not sure how this claim was meant to protect the VT, but whatever. We're expected to believe she painted a MASSIVE target on her back to protect(?) a VT. Follow this up with a no-kill on her. Were it not for the previous day's events, I would suggest it's scum pushing for a mislynch; with the bizarre circumstances of the claim, however, I'm inclined to think scum.
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Post Post #864 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:49 am

Post by 2birds1stone »

EBWOP: We're expected to believe that town PR would paint a massive target on their back to MAYBE protect a claimed VT?
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Post Post #865 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:50 am

Post by 2birds1stone »

Oh, yeah, I'm so indie I
Vote: Rainbowdash
W/L/D = 10/10/3

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Post Post #866 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:17 am

Post by Rainbowdash »

In post 863, 2birds1stone wrote:Now, I tried posting this yesterday, but my computer died. RBD outed herself as a PR the other day to protect a claimed VT; I'm honestly not sure how this claim was meant to protect the VT, but whatever. We're expected to believe she painted a MASSIVE target on her back to protect(?) a VT. Follow this up with a no-kill on her. Were it not for the previous day's events, I would suggest it's scum pushing for a mislynch; with the bizarre circumstances of the claim, however, I'm inclined to think scum.


Think outside the box. I still say my move was the best move that I could make there since it releaves pressure from a town read who I am convinced would make it difficult. Also my role is 100% proveable when I want it to be, all I have to do is play it the way im sure the mod actually intended it to be played instead of the way that I think it should be played. Its different then what most ponies think the right way it, but its not a rare methodology.

The interesting part here though is, you seem entirely sure that I am actually protecting a VT. How is this a bad thing? I have basically locked myself into a role that is confirmable already and really, if you cant tell which of just a couple things im going to claim, you need lessons on how to read between the lines. Its near suicidal as scum since I just shut almost every possible door, but as scum its a good type of suicidal.

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Post Post #867 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:27 am

Post by 2birds1stone »

No, protecting VT is just the best-case scenario. He's definately not anything more than a VT, and he's probably vanilla scum. My point was that you, if we take your word for it, felt the urge as town PR to risk your life for VT (and it doesn't take a genius to know which is more important). That's crazytalk, and if you do flip/confirm yourself town, then I'm actually slightly impressed by your audacity. Fact remains I think you're scum for the time being.
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Post Post #868 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:32 am

Post by 2birds1stone »

You can't confirm yourself till night; once people decide to build a case against scum, it doesn't hurt them to be above suspicion (by locking their claim in this case) for a day to push one last mislynch. Claiming something confirmable at this point is null.
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Post Post #869 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:20 pm

Post by Shinki »

In post 866, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 863, 2birds1stone wrote:Now, I tried posting this yesterday, but my computer died. RBD outed herself as a PR the other day to protect a claimed VT; I'm honestly not sure how this claim was meant to protect the VT, but whatever. We're expected to believe she painted a MASSIVE target on her back to protect(?) a VT. Follow this up with a no-kill on her. Were it not for the previous day's events, I would suggest it's scum pushing for a mislynch; with the bizarre circumstances of the claim, however, I'm inclined to think scum.


Think outside the box. I still say my move was the best move that I could make there since it releaves pressure from a town read who I am convinced would make it difficult. Also my role is 100% proveable when I want it to be, all I have to do is play it the way im sure the mod actually intended it to be played instead of the way that I think it should be played. Its different then what most ponies think the right way it, but its not a rare methodology.

The interesting part here though is, you seem entirely sure that I am actually protecting a VT. How is this a bad thing? I have basically locked myself into a role that is confirmable already and really, if you cant tell which of just a couple things im going to claim, you need lessons on how to read between the lines. Its near suicidal as scum since I just shut almost every possible door, but as scum its a good type of suicidal.

Vote Weird


I see what you did there, pony. I liked it, I'll help you out for now

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Weirdbeard
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Post Post #870 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:27 pm

Post by Shinki »

UNVOTE:
Actually, nevermind, post that caugh my attention is this one

In post 858, Johman wrote:No, 2b1s is obvious newbtown and one of my strongest townreads. GTFO of the wagon.

And Palmar, you are a very annoying person. For the last time, can you please try to play the game?

Btw, I know I'm not contributing much currently. I'm sorry for this and I do intend to scumhunt more during the next days.

~J


Why do you think 2b1s is "obvious newbtown" and your strongest town read? It's far from it by now, at least to the majority of players I guess.
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Post Post #871 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:01 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

In post 867, 2birds1stone wrote:No, protecting VT is just the best-case scenario. He's definately not anything more than a VT, and he's probably vanilla scum. My point was that you, if we take your word for it, felt the urge as town PR to risk your life for VT (and it doesn't take a genius to know which is more important). That's crazytalk, and if you do flip/confirm yourself town, then I'm actually slightly impressed by your audacity. Fact remains I think you're scum for the time being.


*bzzzzt*

Theory fail.

First, thats an oddly specific accusation of him. Vanilla scum and not just scum?

Second, its my greatest trait and probably one of my bigger flaws. I will do literally anything to stop a town read from being lynched. In this situation it is perfect for me to claim a PR because it accomplishes so much. Im not going to go super far into it at risk of tipping my hand more then ive already shown, but its the right move.

Third... VT and PR are worth about the same to me. They both count as exactly one pony for town, if I can remove myself from the game to essentially confirm Draken as town as well, heck thats awesome beyond reason.

Your entire case on me seems to be that you disagree with my theory that claiming a PR is a good thing. Is it not?
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Post Post #872 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:19 pm

Post by weirdbeard »

Okay, for starters, I think RBD's claim is legitimate. If she's pulling a scum-gambit here, it's very clever.

You guys probably aren't going to bite on this, but I'd like to completely shift our direction of scum-hunting. We have a lot of people who barely, or didn't, weigh in on the end of yesterday at all. Johman and Shinki are the first that come to mind for me, but there are probably others. I'm going to finish my re-read and then decide which way I want to push it.

Unsure on 2birds here, still kind of unsure on Draken as well. I'm fairly convinced that RBD is town-sided. Wouldn't mind lynching Draken for similar reasons to Johman and Shinki. There's been a lack of scum-hunting from their slots. I'm (bizarrely) actually a little inclined to call Draken noob-town at this point, but he's far from a strong read that way to me. (God, I know, I've been back and forth in my opinion on Draken all game).

Johman's play in particular, reminds me of a style of play I've come across from a couple of scum-sided players so far on this site. In fact, I'll actually link you to the games I have in mind.

See Will Zane's play in this game https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=19056 and Friend's play in this one https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=18667. It seems "I am town and I'm mad at you for being idiot scum" is a popular strategy on this site. Combine that with a lack of scum-hunting from his slot, and you tentatively have my strongest scum-tell at the moment. As I said however, I will re-read.

I'm going to put my vote up his way for now anyway though, pending re-reading.

VOTE: Johman
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Post Post #873 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:29 pm

Post by Rainbowdash »

Hmmph

Wait until I put a vote out to make a post I like no?

Johman is definantly a decent lynch simply from a utility standpoint. Bvoigt still bugs me a bit too in light of the town flip from TSGR and some of my auxillary reads.
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Post Post #874 (ISO) » Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:53 pm

Post by Sir Bastion »

sorry guys i'll be somewhat VLA til the weekend due to work commitments.
Scum:
nk bastion cos he is never being lynched imo.


I don't honestly think Sir Bastion is a PR, he's too outspoken for it. But he's also a pain in the ass.

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