Open 714: Tit for Tat [Game Over]

[Mathdino]

I guess I'm townreading Gamma most because of his activity rn.

don't tell me you can activity tell gamma because he hates scum

[Creature]

Not sure if he hates scum.

[Creature]

I guess I've been using that tell lately even though some time before it was unreliable.

[Mathdino]

okay so i fully admit that i'm biased as fuck because i'm sheeping here

but here are updated reads (order doesn't matter within categories):

Town: {Paradox, Creature}
Probtown: {A50, jmo}
Null-town: {Gamma, NSG} (Gamma by shitty D1 wagonomics)

Working on sorting: {Gamma, NSG, Jay, mutant}

Null-scum: {Luca, pintu}
Probscum: {Aneninen}

Edit: Heard he hasn't played scum in a while.

[Creature]

(Gamma by shitty D1 wagonomics)

???

[Mathdino]

Scum driven wagon

I have a 6th sense for telling when wagons are shit

[pinturicchio]

Ugh the genericness.

Maybe it's my bad english, but what do you mean by this about my post?

[Creature]

Checking VC 1.06 and VC 1.07, Pinturicchio is the only I don't townread that was on Gamma.

[Creature]

Ugh the genericness.

Maybe it's my bad english, but what do you mean by this about my post?

The questions you asked felt pretty common.

[Mathdino]

Luca put Gamma at L-1 before realising it was L-1 and jumping off.

[pinturicchio]

Checking VC 1.06 and VC 1.07, Pinturicchio is the only I don't townread that was on Gamma.

Last time you posted about me you said you were townleaning me, what changed? This, after Mathdino putting me in his null/scum reads without any explanation after townreading me almost all the game, is pretty suspicious from you, along with your reads on this game that have been almost with an impressive lack of information.

[Mathdino]

you're going down a very bad road if you're gonna start scumreading creature

[Mathdino]

my progression on pintu:

pintu is town.

Big surprise, woop woop. If he's not town, he's gonna slip up at some point later on. The awkward non-native-speaker thing reminds me of town UnaBombaH tbh.

Sidenote: Pintu blew all his towncred from me after that vote tbh.

Does anyone think pintu and Luca are scum together?

If not, and if pintu is scum, he's alignment informed and Luca is town (hence pushing me/Luca apart for the towncred).

- I'm running out of scumreads; if Creature and NSG are both town (not sure on NSG but I'm waiting on some meta for her), and if Luca is town as everyone seems to think, fuck all my scumreads, I'm not scumreading Aneninen or pintu, so I was looking at the options at hand.

Pintu and Paradox seem fine to me.

Prototype reads list
Almost50: Probtown
Aneninen: still sorting
Creature: still sorting
Gamma: nullscum but i clearly can't read this guy
Jay: can't read this guy but if I had to guess, town
jmo: townlean, the lurking is NAI
Luca: null, but even if he were scum people wouldn't lynch him with me so w/e
mutant: still sorting
NSG: waiting on new meta to sort this
pintu: still sorting
Paradox: locktown

bro claiming i've been townreading you all game is pretty disingenuous
i will admit i have not commented on your play as much as i should have
but i stopped townreading you half the game ago
since then it was more of a "meh i have bigger fish to fry" kind of thing
since i've never played with you, you were very low on my list of people that i need to sort (anen, creats, mutant, NSG) so i paid very little attention to talking about you
regardless, i've slowly started to accept the reasoning from the camp that claims your posts seem kind of postury/generic

[pinturicchio]

you're going down a very bad road if you're gonna start scumreading creature

Well then, call me Bad Road from now on

[Almost50]

@mutant: I believe we have a ghosted read on your list.

[mutantdevle]

You ever heard of

Laissez-faire

, Mutant?

Don't give me history lesson flashbacks because that gives me Vietnam flashbacks which then gives me further history lesson flashbacks.

I mean, I got full marks on 2/3 of my history exams but god did I hate my history teacher.


Also, if you're not going to interact then don't expect my read on you to get any better. In fact, if you're going to insist on being here without doing anything then I'd consider you a good kill for a vig.

[Mathdino]

Also, if you're not going to interact then don't expect my read on you to get any better. In fact, if you're going to insist on being here without doing anything then I'd consider you a good kill for a vig.

DID SOMEONE SUGGEST POLICYVIGGING JAY

i'm actually pretty satisfied with this playerlist

there isn't really anyone i strongly want to policy lynch other than maybe luca

although luca became useful so even that's a bad idea

[pinturicchio]

my progression on pintu:

pintu is town.

Big surprise, woop woop. If he's not town, he's gonna slip up at some point later on. The awkward non-native-speaker thing reminds me of town UnaBombaH tbh.

Sidenote: Pintu blew all his towncred from me after that vote tbh.

Does anyone think pintu and Luca are scum together?

If not, and if pintu is scum, he's alignment informed and Luca is town (hence pushing me/Luca apart for the towncred).

- I'm running out of scumreads; if Creature and NSG are both town (not sure on NSG but I'm waiting on some meta for her), and if Luca is town as everyone seems to think, fuck all my scumreads, I'm not scumreading Aneninen or pintu, so I was looking at the options at hand.

Pintu and Paradox seem fine to me.

Prototype reads list
Almost50: Probtown
Aneninen: still sorting
Creature: still sorting
Gamma: nullscum but i clearly can't read this guy
Jay: can't read this guy but if I had to guess, town
jmo: townlean, the lurking is NAI
Luca: null, but even if he were scum people wouldn't lynch him with me so w/e
mutant: still sorting
NSG: waiting on new meta to sort this
pintu: still sorting
Paradox: locktown

bro claiming i've been townreading you all game is pretty disingenuous
i will admit i have not commented on your play as much as i should have
but i stopped townreading you half the game ago
since then it was more of a "meh i have bigger fish to fry" kind of thing
since i've never played with you, you were very low on my list of people that i need to sort (anen, creats, mutant, NSG) so i paid very little attention to talking about you
regardless, i've slowly started to accept the reasoning from the camp that claims your posts seem kind of postury/generic

What reasoning from the camp? The generic thing is about one of my posts, not everyone; almost nobody has said nothing about my readlist, only NSG who came with the "do you see any difference between this two readlists?", nobody has engaged with me because of my reads, nothing. I explicitly said I wanted to be engaged more with my readlist because I'm having trouble making content in this game as it has been overwhelming with so much players posting A LOT and with such big assumptions that I'm really having trouble to see.
I do regret saying you were townreading me for all the game; that's how I felt, but you are right. But the Null/Scum thing did call my attention, as I didn't see it coming from you.

[mutantdevle]

@mutant: I believe we have a ghosted read on your list.

Mfw... I'm surprised no one else picked up on that. Maybe if you posted more you wouldn't be so forgettable?

You're still null. You're not as loud as you usually are this game but I don't scum read it. Which is odd because I usually scum read you just for talking So I'm not sure if I should be taking my lack of scum reading you as I sign that you are actually scum but that just confuses me so...

Please just talk more so that I can sort you please?

[Mathdino]

@pintu: yeah i'm sorry for that
i've been in a bit of an ivory tower this game
when i know almost the entire playerlist i kind of regress into innocent child playstyle

plus NSG/A50 basically not being present means a lot of players who are usually more collaborative aren't engaging people

could've been more forthcoming about stuff but anyway

here are the posts that started swinging me towards dropping you down a level in the reads list

Luca, could you keep going with the ISOing? I'm doing the same but I'm clearly seeing different things than you and need your insights to make a good comparison. Also, is the best content we have had in a while (Gamma and Mutant 1v1 was ridiculous)

this feels like buddying up to luca while not adding much value to the gamestate

If A50 and Creature were wrong I think scum would've helped out with this wagon by now

Under that logic, almost nobody jumped on NSG wagon when you tried to give that a push, so NSG could be scum because of this? I don't think so... And the reverse logic: the Gamma wagon got some momentum, was that scums jumping on that wagon? You were one of those votes, you know

this is a questionable post
it serves the purpose of
- redirecting my attention to NSG, who i could've potentially started scumreading again
- also redirecting my attention to people on the gamma wagon
- and then throwing shade at me and/or lowkey discrediting my theory by pointing out my scumread of gamma

I was pointing out that, by your logic, it would be more reasonable to go for someone who jumped on a wagon than someone whose wagon didn't get momentum because "scum didn't want to vote him". Aneni's case (as pointed out by Aneni himself) has no explanation at all, why would town jump there? Gamma's case, on the other hand, had some good arguments so it would be easier to jump there for scum. I'm not saying you are one of those scums; I'm actually thinking mutant could be scum on that jump and he had to build his case against him AFTER jumping and not BEFORE jumping. BUT, on my point of view, I can't get much information from that, as I am still scumleaning Gamma (not scumreading any more, tho).
So, my point is: could it be a better wagon than Aneni's wagon right now? What is it about Creature and A50 that you trust them so much? If you think scum jumped on the Gamma wagon, shouldn't a mutant wagon have more sense at this point?

tbh i kinda feel like a lot of your play lately has been a soft defence of aneninen
i don't think i'd really be comfortable flipping you before him

to answer your questions:
- Scum could jump on Aneninen really just on the basis that Creature/A50/Mathdino are requesting sheep votes. It's a pretty sheepable combo.
- No, the Gamma wagon feels wrong.
- Creature and A50 have a higher than random read accuracy.
- I mean no, a pintu wagon makes more sense if I'm just gonna start lynching on the Gamma wagon lol.

[mutantdevle]

Do you think it's scummy for someone to go on the first games you've ever played to push a bad meta case on you?

Well I've only been on this site for just over 4 months, so no. It's still valid meta. His flaw is that he was just using his own meta of me (which he even admitted could possibly be outdated) instead of my general meta.

[pinturicchio]

I tried to reply with your post but I couldn't, I don't know what happened but it had a lack of "[/quote]s" and it was going to be horrible. But I'll try to synthetize here:
Your read about my post on Luca is fair, I thought the same myself, but what I meant was that, after he finished his ISO reading, I would share my thoughts. I'm still waiting!
About the redirecting, I thought your argument for jumping on Aneninen was poor. Also, about the soft defence of Aneninen, yeah, maybe, because I felt identified with his rant, as I took a lot of time (and man, I mean A LOT of time) doing my readlist; it's difficult enough with the language barrier to play this game to not be noticed by anyone. So I give you that, I did defended Aneninen and maybe I shouldn't have because his post was AtE.
Lastly, about your answers:
- I get your point, that makes much more sense.
- I agree now
- But they barely justify their reads, how could I, who have never played with them and have finished a beautiful amount of ONE game of Mafia, believe that their accuracy is because they're actually playing and not just luck or coming from scum?
- Well technically I didn't jump on his wagon, but mostly started it... But I get your point too

[mutantdevle]

What do you think about Anen's "rage post"?

I was going to comment on that but decided not to because I felt too biased in what I wanted to say. But basically I don't see why he'd be losing his

shit

pigeon poop over 3 votes. Maybe it's because of the 3 specific people that are voting for him or that more of us have expressed scum reads / interest in voting him but it still feels kinda defeatist. I know I can get defeatist too but only when I'm REALLY wagoned. So basically I just feel like his rage is an over reaction - possibly for town cred.

[JaydragonKing]

You ever heard of

Laissez-faire

, Mutant?

Snip

Also, if you're not going to interact then don't expect my read on you to get any better. In fact, if you're going to insist on being here without doing anything then I'd consider you a good kill for a vig.

I've basically been waiting for people to try to confront me, really, to see if I can get scum. My shit posting was supposed to have someone like Luca, Almost, North, or even pin come after me. But it was only you. Sad times.

As scum, I always had to keep my gears turning to be deceiving and interact a bunch with townreads and subtly kill off those who helped the overall agenda and fit my tastes. My last town games I has the motivation of Dino and Co continuously shitting on my "Survival Style" so I tried super hard and found Creature as day 1 scum after fake claiming, which lead to me dying day one and the game being solved by Dino AGAIN. (He's really good at finding scum when it isn't someone like me.)

Here? Nobody's been REALLY asking me questions. Dino basically warned everyone about my style, so no one's confronting me the way I'd like. I tried a few times to stir the pot. Can't be anti-town too much though or that's gamethrowing. It's just... Hard as town for me. It's harder to find motivation and stuff. Scum just seems more fun in general IMO.

[Almost50]

Please just talk more so that I can sort you please?

I just did, didn't I??

Spoiler:

Basically, and generally speaking, Scum will look where you sorted them and if they're not on the read list they will just shut up about it. That serves to keep them undetected AND to to lonk you with them if they ever flip.

But you know that I do not exactly fall under the "generally speaking" in mist cases, so... *Shrug*