Open 671: Greater Idea - OVER

[Not_Mafia]

And tbh I don't 100% believe the claim, why did he not claim immediately?

[davesaz]

Grey, did you case bang? Between being sick and having to work sick i don't remember. I will try to update reads when we get home from dinner. Too hard on phone. Thankks.

Pedit don't like nm last few posts but again will concentrate more when home.

[-Grey-]

Grey, did you case bang?

Extensively, and recently.

[-Grey-]

843 is the TL; DR of my case.

[Spade_Ace]

Spade made the choice to be negative utility town

I didnt choose it. I chose wildcard. Black goo was randomly assigned to me.

And tbh I don't 100% believe the claim, why did he not claim immediately?

I did hint at the beginning about it being anti-town. Thought the role had some positive aspect to it; by screwing with scums wincon if they killed me. Didn't realize it was an entirely negative utility.

[-Grey-]

[Spade_Ace]

I think bang is just new, I'd lynch you before a scumread anyway, we don't know how many scum there are so it's best to make you town earlier rather than later

Bang is not new to mafia. He has played lots of games outside MS. And this is his third game here.

We know there are at least 4 town members alive. We know there could be a maximum of 5 scum alive including grey. We know all 5 cant belong to the same faction else we would have lost the game already. If all scum belong to the same faction that means there are more than 4 alive town members.

If we make grey town. Then he is going to get killed at night unless there is a protective town role. Day3 could start with 4v4 or 3v4 depending upon the number of factions with kill powers. Not sure whether that gives us much advantage.

Also lynching grey doesn't give us any flip info that we could use.

I think it is best we lynch our top scumreads.

[Spade_Ace]

VOTE: Bang

[-Grey-]

L-2

Bus now for max towncred.

[alban]

Spade,
Not ambiguous. Still suspect you. Your claim appears fake. My vote stays on you.

[-Grey-]

Spade,
Not ambiguous. Still suspect you. Your claim appears fake. My vote stays on you.

Spade is a vanity wagon unless you can tell me why my case on bang has no merit.

Bang is caught scum, whereas Spade "might be" scum. Well guess what? All of us "might be" scum.

Bang IS scum.

[alban]

He hasn't yet replied to your case on him. I will wait for that before making up my mind. At this point, Spade is my top suspect.

[-Grey-]

He has no incentive to respond to the case unless there is pressure on him.

[alban]

L-2 is pressure.

[Kop]

Spade made the choice to be negative utility town

No, he didn't.

He chose the wild card in hope to get something random, he got Black Goo. It's unfortunate that he got that, but he did.

He could have been given anything within the card deck, roles that could have been more useful, it was nothing but a stab in the dark.

[Kop]

L-2 is pressure.

And that L-2 pressure was only placed an hour ago. He might not have even seen he was put at L-2.

[bangthemafia]

Thanks alban and Kop for atleast holding this nonsense wagpn on me.

I told u guys i was on V/LA till Monday. Still Spade and Grey wont leave me, so fine. Here I am posting. Whenever I post, I usually like to start from my last post and comment post by post. But since Grey is so sure I am a scum, I am responding to some of his and Spade's posts first.

Lynching a player you fully believe to be town simply because of their negative utility is doing scum's job for them.

Stop doing scum's job.

Wrong. I suppose you said this in relation to our votes for spade. Coz your claimed role basically has to be lynched sooner or later. Now, about Spade, i m not voting him for his negative utility. My case is this-
He was the scummiest player to me. Reasons given earlier- go ISO me.
Then he suddenly comes up with a claim, that can't be verified, and town doesnt want to touch. Well great, if he is really a town. But what a convenient claim if he is a scum. Nobody will touch him (I mean town PRs) so he remains till end and wins. I dont want that as a town. Thats why I asked you and him whay do you think which one of you shud be lynched first, and then said my plan is to see if there is any scummier player in non spade, non grey players, if there is none, I wanted to vote Spade. But now I kinda agree with NM. There is a small finite chance that i m wrong and Spade is town. To account for that chance, I now feel it's better to lynch Grey before Spade.

I think bang is just new, I'd lynch you before a scumread anyway, we don't know how many scum there are so it's best to make you town earlier rather than later

You're his buddy, so of course you're gonna say that.

I still have to try, though.

@Grey, stop being so presumptious. I am not mafia. And by the way scum defended me, I feel he is a townie too. Scum would hav supported a blinded-with-fury aggressive opinion maker like you and set me up.
@ NM, this is my 3rd game on MS, but first ever with all these mad roles. So yes, I did take and am still taking time to understand what each role means

And tbh I don't 100% believe the claim, why did he not claim immediately?

Agree. A negative utility townie shud hav immediately claimed on day 1 to prevent night 1 culting.

Grey, did you case bang?

Extensively, and recently.

Yes, extensive bullshitting, as you would realize after my flip

Spade,
Not ambiguous. Still suspect you. Your claim appears fake. My vote stays on you.

Spade is a vanity wagon unless you can tell me why my case on bang has no merit.

Bang is caught scum, whereas Spade "might be" scum. Well guess what? All of us "might be" scum.

Bang IS scum.

"Caught"scum? Are you even in your senses? How are you so sure? It is the scum that has to fake this conviction of having found a scum. As town I always get doubts about my reads. Even for my strongest scum reads, I keep getting this feeling of whether I am getting fixated on a townie getting into a town vs town fight. How is it that you are so damn sure? If you are setting me up or you are a fixated townie. I felt it was the later. Thats why I called you Idiot few pages back.

@Mod, please explicitly clarify-
If there were a black goo, what was their role PM? Do they convert everyone targetting them or only town PRs? This is what wiki page on Goo says-

Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.

[-Grey-]

You still haven't addressed my case.

[-Grey-]

And by the way scum defended me, I feel he is a townie too.

I don't even know wtf you're saying here.

[-Grey-]

Then he suddenly comes up with a claim, that can't be verified, and town doesnt want to touch. Well great, if he is really a town.

You bought his claim when he made it.

If you were actually scumreading him, you'd have had those questions immediately, not seventy posts later.

[Spade_Ace]

He was the scummiest player to me. Reasons given earlier- go ISO me.

Have already answered yours and albans questions. ISO me.

And tbh I don't 100% believe the claim, why did he not claim immediately?

Agree. A negative utility townie shud hav immediately claimed on day 1 to prevent night 1 culting.

Have already mentioned the reason. ISO me.

@Mod, please explicitly clarify-
If there were a black goo, what was their role PM? Do they convert everyone targetting them or only town PRs? This is what wiki page on Goo says-

Black Goo: Whenever a player targets you with an action, they will join your cult as another black goo regardless of their original team.

Mod has already clarified this. Any person scum/town targeting the black goo will get converted. Any person scum/town killing black goo won't get converted.

[Spade_Ace]

To account for that chance, I now feel it's better to lynch Grey before Spade.

How exactly does lynching grey help? I have my reservations on this. Especially since a 'grey nightkill' can also convert him to town. Lynching grey doesn't give us any flip info.

[Spade_Ace]

I think scum's agenda is this.
Push for a lynch on grey on the pretext of it being favourable for town. Get him converted to town. Kill him at nighy. Push for a mislynch on spade the next day. This should be easier the next day with grey dead.

@bang if you can clearly explain how exactly a grey lynch is beneficial for town, am willing to support it.

Else i think it is best one of us gets lynched today. Thw flips would help town.

[Spade_Ace]

@mod request a prod on Vax

[davesaz]

843 is the TL; DR of my case.

I see your case, but reading bang's iso with no preset alignment and making no assumptions about

correctness

, it looks reasonably towny to me.
I'm willing to go back to the "red flags" in context to see if a scum motivation is more apparent in that light.