Open 155 - Jungle Republic - Game Over before 816

[DizzyIzzyB13]

Okay, scum would have had an opportunity to quickhammer now, and they didn't so I think we can safely say that one of the following people is scum:

Zazie
Izzy
Myko

Thus, I believe that one of those 3 people should be lynched today.

Anyone object to that?

The only issue I could see with that is that Haylen appearsto not be fully up to speed with the game and Netapolis hasn't posted since Haylen's vote, so it's entirely possible that if either or both of them is scum, the other scum is simply waiting until his/her partner makes the move they expect.

Of course, that's irrelevent, since Myko acts more and more like scum. His reaction to pressure is solidifying this opinion. So... I'm all in favour of lynching Myko scum from that list.

[Netopalis]

I have to say that I don't feel as strongly about the Zazie wagon now....Myko is looking like the best candidate for today, I think.

Izzy: No duh, you'd be all for getting rid of Myko off of that list

[mykonian]

Okay, scum would have had an opportunity to quickhammer now, and they didn't so I think we can safely say that one of the following people is scum:

Zazie
Izzy
Myko

Thus, I believe that one of those 3 people should be lynched today.

Anyone object to that?

I object to two of the three. I disagree with zaz, but he is probably town. Further, really, was that ad hom? Izzy is just adding things to her attack after each post. Her case started with a hammer that was in her opinion too soon (we disagree, net was the best and only lynch at that point), and she added omgus and ad hom to her case. Both accusations are more then doubtful, and I am slightly insulted by her post 924.

if we aren't going to no-lynch, then I believe we must search scum with Neto and Izzy, since haylen is my neutral read, and crazy and zaz are town.

one problem we have for the lynch is that we need all four town on it, when scum doesn't bus.

[mykonian]

This game makes my head hurt.

I'm happy to leave my vote on Netlava - the way the claim was made and handled does absolutely nothing to convince me that he/she isn't a wolf.

why do you now already excuse for your vote? Why didn't you say because it convinces me he is a wolf? This is the wrong way around, I think.

How so? I thought Netlava was a wolf. I explained why when I voted. Nothing that has happened since has changed my opinion. What is the problem with this?

you already place the guilt of the coming mislynch by netlava, since he "didn't convince you he isn't a wolf". That, with that you only made a few posts that mostly said you didn't understand the game and kept your vote makes you scum.

[Crazy]

It's not because of scuminess, myko; it's that it's basically confirmed that one of those three has to be scum, because of no quickhammer. The same can't be said of me/Haylen/Net.

[mykonian]

It's not because of scuminess, myko; it's that it's basically confirmed that one of those three has to be scum, because of no quickhammer. The same can't be said of me/Haylen/Net.

want to bet? How likely is it that both are on me?

and how likely is a bus in lylo I think you have a point. There probably aren't 2 scum in our group of three.

anyway, it is just an aid in thinking about it, since it doesn't make the odds better.

[ZazieR]

Crazy: "If the Mafia claims, I think he won't be lynched or NK'ed by the Wolves."

You're stating what you think is good for the mafia to do. And you still haven't explained why you wouldn't have done so if you were mafia.

I'm also interested why you 'forgot' this:

I said it before, Zazie. If that statement was suggesting that the mafia claim, then

why would I suggest in that same post that they don't

.

The reason I wouldn't have claimed as mafia is because if both werewolves are lynched then the town could easily just lynch the mafia and win. When I said mafia probably wouldn't be lynched, I meant immediately.

You don't even get it. Due to that post, you gave the impression that it was better for the Mafia to claim right away as he would be save from both lynch and NK.
Also, a question: What is more likely to happen? The chance of being NK'ed or being lynched after the two lynches before you were Wolf lynches?

I'm also interested why you 'forgot' this:

Show me? I might have forgotten Rule #19, but looking through my posts, I don't see where I did.

I asked if you could think of a reason why the Wolves would want to kill the last Mafia. You couldn't think of one.
I asked what so special was about this set-up. You didn't state that Mafia could win in special circumstances (See Rule 19).

No, it's not.
No-lynch hasn't helped town in one game in which I was present that had a no-lynch.

Why, because you're worried about a quicklynch?

If I would worry about a quicklynch, I wouldn't have voted Myko.
Why? Because it only gets rid of the most likely town player if that player isn't scum. Most likely the player with the least amount of suspicion. So for the loss of information and the higher chance of a quicklynch, we should no-lynch? No thanks.

[ZazieR]

Izzy, Zazie, if you're on now, please unvote Myko so we can avoid a possible quicklynch.

Zazie, you better have a very, very good reason for doing that. Did something happen that made myko obvscum, because I didn't see it.

No unvote from me.
And as said before, you and Myko are the scumteam to me.
Process of Elimination plays a big part and the scummy things Myko has said and done.

[ZazieR]

I think that the quote at the top of this post says exactly what you said Crazy, namely that you think the last Mafia would be save if he claims. So don't state that this is what Myko said. He did, but so did you. Now, explain what I asked you to explain in the top quote.

Yeah, I didn't think the mafia would be lynched or NKed. That's suggesting what the town would do, not what the mafia

should

do. Especially if you note that I said the MAFIA SHOULDN'T CLAIM!

Crazy: "If the Mafia claims, I think he won't be lynched or NK'ed by the Wolves."

You're stating what you think is good for the mafia to do. And you still haven't explained why you wouldn't have done so if you were mafia.

I'm also interested why you 'forgot' this:

18. The mafia or werewolves win if they obtain a full majority of living players, or if they make up half and at least one protown role is still alive.
19. If the mafia and werewolves ever make up equal numbers, with no protown roles left alive, then mafia win. Mafia also win if a day phase begins with one mafia, one werewolf, and one protown.

because mafia claims tell us who they are. Makes the job a little easier, don't you think?

Especially for Wolves so that the endgame scenario doesn't appear, don't you think?
Mafia was obv and I remember the time that you agreed with me against Flava.

[ZazieR]

In response to this post from

Myko

:
-Asking a question doesn't answer one. Stop avoiding it and answer.
-I'm accusing you of being a Wolf, yet I haven't seen any smiley. Why the difference?
-So your second vote against Netlava was for the same reasons you already had when you unvoted him? Yet, you had no case until after he voted you? Noted.
-Your reason for proposing that the mafia should claim is actually interesting as this seems to imply that you did know the rules:

Mafia needs to claim. Town doesn't want to lynch him, werewolves have no reason to kill him anymore, since the only danger the mafia posed to them was in numbers, and since those numbers are gone, they are no longer interested in a mafia kill,

a mafia that might even help them in endgame.

As for Post 839, you need to recheck my meta as it's much more than just that. And I'm scumhunting.

I am just going to clutter the thread as much as you do. It doesn't help, it doesn't work.
Further, netlava was the lynch, and with the inactiveness, it was better to end the day. Best you can make of this hammer, is a null tell. Their were enough people that would have hammered, it just would have cost another week.
and a claimed mafia is a found mafia. I don't see the problem. If you want to lynch him, you just agree with it with the town.

In the above quote, I make four points. Let's look at Myko's response:
-Nothing about him avoiding to answer my question.
-Not explaining the difference.
-Talking about his third vote against Netlava, while I'm talking about his second vote.
-Nothing about the part of the bolded.

And in response to the 'gluttering', for some strange reason, it does help me. Check Death Note Mafia again where all of you, ZEEnon and Magnus were scum and this game for a few examples. But it's fun you're doing it as well ^.^ Too bad for you that it only shows how obv scum you are

[ZazieR]

one other way to see zaz's defensiveness about Net, is that he knows that Net fakeclaimed mafia, since he is mafia himself.

because, lets be honest, defending Net in this case is rather weird.

Said the guy who stated that he wanted to lynch Wolves, yet at the moment of this quote had his vote on me, his assumed mafia.
So Myko, why did you try to get rid of Mafia?

I tried to get rid off you, and have tried several ways to explain you overdefensiveness. Don't pick out one.

I'm noting how you tried to take down the player you saw as Mafia, while saying before that we shouldn't that day. You have yet to explain that change of heart.

[ZazieR]

unvote vote netlava

we'll get that answer from izzy tomorrow.

You weren't interested anymore in the question you had asked Flava?

clearly not.

Why?

[ZazieR]

Hey Haylen, welcome to the game ^.^

yeah, another post.

Why, yes.

[ZazieR]

Wow....Just wow. Well, I'm at a loss, now....All my suspects are dead

vote Netopalis

for this, and the LAL thing, I could probably try some case on Chaos.

unvote vote no lynch

there is no doctor, there is no vig.

Myko's Change of Heart in 4 posts.
Explain. And also explain why you haven't tried to make the Chaos case.

because chaos is long gone, and there is no way he can defend. Also, you disagree that no lynch is the best plan? Please tell so then. Further, I can change my mind, I hope, after I found better use for my vote?

As already stated, I disagree with a nolynch.
Chaos was also gone when you made that statement
And you still haven't explained the change of heart in four posts. I'm curious what made you realise that there was still the option of no-lynch in those four posts.

[ZazieR]

Acutually, No Lynch is a pretty good idea.

Vote: No Lynch

(Yeah, yeah)

No, it's not.
No-lynch hasn't helped town in one game in which I was present that had a no-lynch.

now 2-4 gives 66% mislynch, and loss (wolves kill, giving 2-2)
better would be: 2-3, gives 60% etc.

get your maths straight.

This doesn't have to do with maths why I disagree

[ZazieR]

Vote Mykonian

Scum Myko and Crazy need to die.

O, NOES, they proposed the plan that is actually the best in this case, they must be scum! Stop tunneling zaz.

First of all, you need to check my reasons for voting against you again.
Secondly, I'm 'tunneling' on my assumed scumpair. Funny that you bring 'tunneling' up when it's against you, but not yesterday when it was against Netlava.

[ZazieR]

arg, at L-1 already. People, the hammer loses us the game here!

Did I miss a vote? I thought you only have two votes on you (Mine and Dizzy's)

[ZazieR]

because chaos is long gone, and there is no way he can defend.

Holy crap, dude, what? You totally said that you could try a case on Chaos when Netopalis had already replaced him.

I know. ugh, this probably means you want me to. Mind if I do it later then, since it is 11 pm now

and I was mostly referencing to my reread, btw. But lets make it a hard point.

Two days later...

[ZazieR]

I don't really care about your Chaos case; I care more that you just said that you didn't do one because Chaos got replaced. That's a total contradiction.

No, I said I could make one, and that chaos earlier made alarm bells sound. Saying that I promised it is slightly pulling it out of context (mind very much the uncertainty that "could" gives). But again, I don't mind making a hard point of it, just not now.

But you were planning on doing it then, right?

And now you said you didn't do it because Chaos got replaced.

But Chaos had already been replaced by the time you had said you could "try a case on him."

Well, I forgot very soon after I said it, I'm afraid And yes, it is an argument that was valid then too. Which gives the question how much such a case would give.

and if it is really worth the effort, seen izzy's recent play.

No, it gives the question how invalid your 'explanation' is.

[ZazieR]

Okay, scum would have had an opportunity to quickhammer now, and they didn't so I think we can safely say that one of the following people is scum:

Zazie
Izzy
Myko

Thus, I believe that one of those 3 people should be lynched today.

Anyone object to that?

As I'm voting Myko, I have no objection to his lynch.

[ZazieR]

Okay, scum would have had an opportunity to quickhammer now, and they didn't so I think we can safely say that one of the following people is scum:

Zazie
Izzy
Myko

Thus, I believe that one of those 3 people should be lynched today.

Anyone object to that?

I object to two of the three. I disagree with zaz, but he is probably town. Further, really, was that ad hom? Izzy is just adding things to her attack after each post. Her case started with a hammer that was in her opinion too soon (we disagree, net was the best and only lynch at that point), and she added omgus and ad hom to her case. Both accusations are more then doubtful, and I am slightly insulted by her post 924.

if we aren't going to no-lynch, then I believe we must search scum with Neto and Izzy, since haylen is my neutral read, and crazy and zaz are town.

one problem we have for the lynch is that we need all four town on it, when scum doesn't bus.

Another Change of Heart? Why this time?

[ZazieR]

Also,

Mod

- I'll be LA for a couple days.

[mykonian]

zazie, don't ask questions when you don't want to know the answer. Every answer would make me more scum, since you are already convinced of that. So why would I bother answering, since the rest wouldn't read all that posts, and even if they did, the questions wouldn't give them new insights.

It is very simple, I am town, and you don't want to see that. In that case, you need one towny, and two scum to convince. Neto already expressed the will to vote me, but misteriously didn't do that. This is because he is waiting to hammer. The first scum is already on the wagon, and I believe it is not you, zaz.

Take a step back, and see how likely this is. Also, I have listened to you, and I did abandon the flava thing, while afterwards you were right. If you read back, how many players have said Crazy was town? Enough to make a few townies with them: believe them. You can be wrong, as I probably was about you for some time.

[mykonian]

Here are my final thoughts:

Crazy- Hm... I'll say town. His "I CAUGHT SCUM" bit seemed genuine, at least.

Orangepenguin- I can't tell if he simply forgot what happened earlier in the game, but if he did, his "Funny that you say this shortly after I request replacement" quote would be a incorrect. So, I say he's likely a werewolf.

DizzyIzzy- Apparently Mastin put Noramp and falko as werewolves, instead of mafia. Coincidence? I think not. Considering the fact that Mastin was was more intent on scumhunting mafia for whatever reason, I'll say mafia here.

mykonian- Eh, I think he looks ok after all. Nothing really wrong that I can see.

Zazier- Tried to help clarify my progression of thoughts with my unvote/vote of Hero & falko. After I fakeclaimed mafia, he continued, so I'll say it seems genuine. So I'll go with town here.

Flava Flave- Confirmed non-werewolf. Doesn't look like mafia, so I'll go with town.

Netopalis- Gives me a bad vibe. I'll say werewolf. The fact that he mentioned LAL is a scumtell from what I've seen in the past.

confirmed town speaking. Can be wrong, but is sure to have good intentions.

[Crazy]

Okay, Zazie, you win. I didn't consider that a single werewolf would kill a single mafia in order to not lose in an endgame. I guess I didn't think of every scenario.

Anyway, it doesn't matter at all, anymore.

@myko

- What would be the difference in Net saying he would vote you, secretly waiting for a hammer, and him just voting you and waiting for me or Haylen to vote you? In another way, if he was waiting for a quickhammer, why would he even reveal that he was going to vote for you?

Zazie, what do you think about Izzy?

And Izzy, what do you think about Zazie?