Mini 1190: Game over

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount2.6

Did you know?: you can turn google translate into a beatbox by clicking listen on phrases such as this

Monk(5 L-1) - Sundy, PBuG, Hoppster, Panzerjager, thefool

Xvart(1) - Empking
Panzerjager(1) - Xvart
Thefool(2) - Monk, thomith

Not Voting (1): Heliman

With 10 Alive it takes 6 to lynch, 5 to no lynch.
The deadline is 13th July GMT 08:00[/b]

[/size]

Deadline is 2 days away :0

[Empking]

Unvote

Vote; TheFool

Mod: TF is voting twice.

fixed ty

[Thomith]

VOTE: Thefool as EK has stated sleepy could have been bussing, plus Monk's ISO of you seems accurate.

[Heliman]

Well damn, Panzar is a mason? That changes things somewhat, it also means I'm gonna have to reread again. Dammit.

[PJ.]

Fool could be their buddy, but so could you. I don't like how you kinda flailed on whether you wanted to vote Xvart/Fool. Also You can't speculate Fools Relation to Xvart unless he flips, which was Xvart's fatal Flaw. His whole case on me is based on Hoppster being scum and then some very convincing picking and choosing of what to cut/paste. Right now it seems most people case on Fool is that Xvart is scum, which can't be done.

Right now, based sololy on their actions I'd be willing to push for a monk/CC lynch or an Xvart lynch. So let's go back to square 1.

Unvote:Vote:Xvart

[monk]

My case on TheFool is more towards him not actually doing any actual scumhunting and instead providing us with information, I'm happy with either xvart or theFool, I'd like to hear a bit more input from everyone else before I switch my vote over though

[xvart]

Free internet connection at the New Orleans Airport! Had a few too many drinks but I accept all responsibility for my actions thereof.

If Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up my scumdar for saying xvart/Fool are scumbuddies and voting CC.

Scum city.

IF

Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up his scumar for

something else

? This is absurd! Regardless of the qualifier or whatever else, if Thomith doesn't declare scum with the masonry then Panzer is scum regardless of anything else that is going on! PBug seems to be making obscure association and relationship tells to shift blame around.

If Panzer isn't scum then PBurg most certainly is.

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

my reasoning behind it was

if he did die mafia

couldn't easily call me out as mason buddy.

This is exactly why I am more inclined to believe that this whole mason stuff is complete and utter bullshit. Thomith is now concocting a story about how he didn't want the obvious connection to his mason buddy who flips

maifa

???? The whole point of masonry is that they are confirmed town to each other!

Monk is being rather charming. I like his read on the game. Want to read a more complete one. And he is right that I am indecisive. It is a flaw I like to pretend is strategic.

WTF? He is being charming? He has posted about five sentences, of which he could have easily pulled from a scum QT. He has given no real opinions of any of the major events of the game or why his reads are what they are.

(A) If you thought SleepyKrew was being serious about his claim, why did you not vote him? His role (ie. the Mason Recruiter bit) is blatantly impossible if you were a mason, so he is essentially CC'ing you. But you voted for the Miller claim that wasn't CC'ing you [Empking] over the one that was [SleepyKrew]? Why?

(B) Umm, this should be self-explanatory. You said you didn't think there were any masons, but you and Thomith

are

Masons apparently.

This. A thousand times, this. This totally contradicts his vote on Empking over SleepyKrew. If he knew he was a mason and someone outside his mason group claimed mason and

he thought it was a serious claim

he should have immediately voted the person

who claimed to be a mason

over the person who only claimed to be a milller.

Id be willing to bet their aren't two millers(emp,sleepy) or two masons(me and thomith, sleepy and whomever). Is what the sentence meant. It was deliberatly vague cause I didn't wanna claim early.

Also I just liked the empking lynch more.

WTF. Someone counterclaimed your role (mason) and you thought it was a serious claim (as you said many many times) and you voted someone else?!??!?!? This is a town reaction how?

Well damn, Panzar is a mason? That changes things somewhat, it also means I'm gonna have to reread again. Dammit.

Not necessarily. Let me remind you of your situation replacing into a game about 34 pages long...

Also You can't speculate Fools Relation to Xvart unless he flips, which was Xvart's fatal Flaw. His whole case on me is based on Hoppster being scum and then some very convincing picking and choosing of what to cut/paste. Right now it seems most people case on Fool is that Xvart is scum, which can't be done.

LOL! Says the guy who was projecting scum based on town flips

and

says the person who never argued on why projecting scum based on town flips being more townie than someone suggesting scum based on scum flips.\

Seriously, read Panzer's claim and the way his "mason partner" responds. It totally looks like Thomith didn't know that this was coming and scumPanzer claimed to save himself. And the whole fact that it appears they forgot that typical mason roles can communicate outside of thread and then when asked about it Panzer said "oooohhh we didn't ever use our obvious townie action of night talking especially considering all the juicy stuff in thread to talk about." Perhaps it is because they were actually talking about everything already in their scum QT?

[PJ.]

When did I project scum based on town flips? You called me scum based on Hoppster's nonexistent flip. And I asked if he flipped town if I'd be more town which you called scummy for bullshit reason.

My point was does the logic flow. Is it "If x flips scum, y is scum/if x flips town, y is town" or if you had an actual fucking case on me.

Also you're putting words in my mouth. We didn't claim we forgot, we claimed that we weren't using it/ignoring it.

At this point only scum could twist words this badly. You HAVE to be scum...

[monk]

Rawr I hate this post, disection:

Free internet connection at the New Orleans Airport! Had a few too many drinks but I accept all responsibility for my actions thereof.

If Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up my scumdar for saying xvart/Fool are scumbuddies and voting CC.

Scum city.

IF

Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up his scumar for

something else

? This is absurd! Regardless of the qualifier or whatever else, if Thomith doesn't declare scum with the masonry then Panzer is scum regardless of anything else that is going on! PBug seems to be making obscure association and relationship tells to shift blame around.

If Panzer isn't scum then PBurg most certainly is.

Another jump onto someone you haven't mentioned before?

confirming masonry. although i didnt want to out really. UNVOTE:

Your fault for suspecting your mason buddy. Well, either way, this clears Panzer so if his wagon could kindly unvote, we need to lynch CC and then most likely xvart.

my reasoning behind it was

if he did die mafia

couldn't easily call me out as mason buddy.

This is exactly why I am more inclined to believe that this whole mason stuff is complete and utter bullshit. Thomith is now concocting a story about how he didn't want the obvious connection to his mason buddy who flips

maifa

???? The whole point of masonry is that they are confirmed town to each other!

reading comprehension get some. Basically thomith was worried about being shot by the mafia if Panzer flips town, if I had to I'd rather lynch Thomith to confirm because of the shocking play.

Monk is being rather charming. I like his read on the game. Want to read a more complete one. And he is right that I am indecisive. It is a flaw I like to pretend is strategic.

WTF? He is being charming? He has posted about five sentences, of which he could have easily pulled from a scum QT. He has given no real opinions of any of the major events of the game or why his reads are what they are.

Is this based on the timing of this post because I've shown the reasoning for my cases on you, PBuG, Hoppster and TheFool

(A) If you thought SleepyKrew was being serious about his claim, why did you not vote him? His role (ie. the Mason Recruiter bit) is blatantly impossible if you were a mason, so he is essentially CC'ing you. But you voted for the Miller claim that wasn't CC'ing you [Empking] over the one that was [SleepyKrew]? Why?

(B) Umm, this should be self-explanatory. You said you didn't think there were any masons, but you and Thomith

are

Masons apparently.

This. A thousand times, this. This totally contradicts his vote on Empking over SleepyKrew. If he knew he was a mason and someone outside his mason group claimed mason and

he thought it was a serious claim

he should have immediately voted the person

who claimed to be a mason

over the person who only claimed to be a milller.

Id be willing to bet their aren't two millers(emp,sleepy) or two masons(me and thomith, sleepy and whomever). Is what the sentence meant. It was deliberatly vague cause I didn't wanna claim early.

Also I just liked the empking lynch more.

WTF. Someone counterclaimed your role (mason) and you thought it was a serious claim (as you said many many times) and you voted someone else?!??!?!? This is a town reaction how?

I seriously don't know what panzer was doing, but you have more scum points

Well damn, Panzar is a mason? That changes things somewhat, it also means I'm gonna have to reread again. Dammit.

Not necessarily. Let me remind you of your situation replacing into a game about 34 pages long...

Why is it in any way bad for him to go back and read through the thread?

Also You can't speculate Fools Relation to Xvart unless he flips, which was Xvart's fatal Flaw. His whole case on me is based on Hoppster being scum and then some very convincing picking and choosing of what to cut/paste. Right now it seems most people case on Fool is that Xvart is scum, which can't be done.

LOL! Says the guy who was projecting scum based on town flips

and

says the person who never argued on why projecting scum based on town flips being more townie than someone suggesting scum based on scum flips.\

Seriously, read Panzer's claim and the way his "mason partner" responds. It totally looks like Thomith didn't know that this was coming and scumPanzer claimed to save himself. And the whole fact that it appears they forgot that typical mason roles can communicate outside of thread and then when asked about it Panzer said "oooohhh we didn't ever use our obvious townie action of night talking especially considering all the juicy stuff in thread to talk about." Perhaps it is because they were actually talking about everything already in their scum QT?

It looks more to me like thomith is a bit of a VI which if you look at his ISO is pretty reasonable.

VOTE: xvart
Horrible post was horrible

[TheFool]

Horrible post was horrible

Well put. It reads like scum watching his wagon fall apart and flailing to find a better target, especially with the weak and out-of-nowhere jump to PBuG.

WTF? He is being charming? He has posted about five sentences, of which he could have easily pulled from a scum QT. He has given no real opinions of any of the major events of the game or why his reads are what they are.

This is a really odd point, do you think scum keeps an ISO of Sundy lying around just in case? Or are you assuming daytalk coaching?

Seriously, read Panzer's claim and the way his "mason partner" responds. It totally looks like Thomith didn't know that this was coming and scumPanzer claimed to save himself. And the whole fact that it appears they forgot that typical mason roles can communicate outside of thread and then when asked about it Panzer said "oooohhh we didn't ever use our obvious townie action of night talking especially considering all the juicy stuff in thread to talk about." Perhaps it is because they were actually talking about everything already in their scum QT?

Although I agree that the masonry claim is a bit unusually handled, it seems silly to lynch a claimed mason on Day 2. If they are scum, assuming a 3-man scum team they're putting all their eggs in one basket; it's a risky strategy that becomes riskier as the game goes on.

looking back fool kind of looks like they have the most connections to SK and EK's arguement about bussing makes sence thinking about it.

What are my connections to SK?

Well damn, Panzar is a mason? That changes things somewhat, it also means I'm gonna have to reread again. Dammit.

Keep in mind, deadline is rapidly approaching.

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

UNVOTE:
VOTE: xvart

[PJ.]

Yes

[xvart]

Also you're putting words in my mouth. We didn't claim we forgot, we claimed that we weren't using it/ignoring it.

Your mason partner apparently forgot, hence his vote and stumbling around not knowing what you were talking about even after you made it obvious what you were trying to say.

Rawr I hate this post, disection:

Free internet connection at the New Orleans Airport! Had a few too many drinks but I accept all responsibility for my actions thereof.

If Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up my scumdar for saying xvart/Fool are scumbuddies and voting CC.

Scum city.

IF

Thomith doesn't confirm the masonry Panzer just shot up his scumar for

something else

? This is absurd! Regardless of the qualifier or whatever else, if Thomith doesn't declare scum with the masonry then Panzer is scum regardless of anything else that is going on! PBug seems to be making obscure association and relationship tells to shift blame around.

If Panzer isn't scum then PBurg most certainly is.

Another jump onto someone you haven't mentioned before?

You don't find it, at the very least, odd that he PBuG thinks if Thomith is doesn't confirm the masonry that Panzer is scum because of other reasons outside of the obvious lie that would have been exposed? That was my point.

reading comprehension get some. Basically thomith was worried about being shot by the mafia if Panzer flips town, if I had to I'd rather lynch Thomith to confirm because of the shocking play.

You are right. That was a fail in reading comprehension.

I seriously don't know what panzer was doing, but you have more scum points

You are not suspicious in the slightest that Panzer, fully claiming multiple times that he thought the miller mason claim was not a joke did not vote for someone who claimed to have the same role as him and was not in his mason group?

Why is it in any way bad for him to go back and read through the thread?

It is not bad at all. That is not what I was implying when I was speaking directly to him. Heliman will know what I'm talking about and I am not at liberty to say anymore, and he shouldn't say anything more about it either.

Well put. It reads like scum watching his wagon fall apart and flailing to find a better target, especially with the weak and out-of-nowhere jump to PBuG.

Flailing looking for a better target? How? I am still voting for whom I think is scum, and not actively pursuing anyone else.

Although I agree that the masonry claim is a bit unusually handled, it seems silly to lynch a claimed mason on Day 2. If they are scum, assuming a 3-man scum team they're putting all their eggs in one basket; it's a risky strategy that becomes riskier as the game goes on.

It is a risky strategy, which is further compounded by the way Thomith reacted and seemed completely oblivious to the fact that they were masons. It appears to me that Panzer, at the risk of being lynched (for good reason) claimed this mason thing (despite it contradicting his previous voting record on someone else who claimed to be a mason) to get people off his back. And it appears to be working.

I also find it incredibly hard to believe given that they supposedly have daytalk that no conversation happened at all during D1 when I was attacking Hoppster or when I was attacking regarding whether or not they thought I was scum. No conversation about Toro actually being a one shot vig. Nothing. Nothing. Those would be the pinnacle places that at the very least some level of conversation would happen between mason partners. Not even a "hello are you there?" from Panzer to the alleged absent minded Thomith who supposedly forgot he was a mason.

[monk]

freaking hell guys! 20 hours to deadline and I have seen hide nor tail of:
Sundy,
PBuG,
Hoppster

since my ISOs which they were wanting If you guys still want to vote for me then please checkin and say so!
Otherwise put forward a case for either of the two wagons {xvart, theFool} and jump on I would rather see a lynch than not today, but since time is currently on town's hands then a no lynch is just as good I'd just rather see you guys in here before time runs out
countdown: http://timeanddate.com/counters/customc ... &sec=&p0=0

[Hoppster]

UNVOTE:

monk is :REALLYGOODPOSTING:.

I'm not paticularly worried about Panz/Thomith being scum, because if they are their lies will unravel with time, and if one gets caught as scum by any means we win (obviously).

xvart, claim now.

Give us a full list of reads as well.

[monk]

Whoah hoppster rolefishing much? We're both at L-3 why claim?

[Hoppster]

Wow, bad miscount. Thought xvart was at L-1 for some reason.

VOTE: xvart

Still want a claim, bearing in mind:

20 hours to deadline

I don't want a monk lynch.

[monk]

Just so everyone knows xvart is at L-2

[TheFool]

Yes

Seriously? Then why did you yell at Thom about his bad choice of vote in-thread?

It is a risky strategy, which is further compounded by the way Thomith reacted and seemed completely oblivious to the fact that they were masons. It appears to me that Panzer, at the risk of being lynched (for good reason) claimed this mason thing (despite it contradicting his previous voting record on someone else who claimed to be a mason) to get people off his back. And it appears to be working.

My gut says that mason-claiming scum wouldn't claim daytalk if they didn't have it themselves. As such, Thomith's obliviousness isn't necessarily a scum tell, since he'd presumably be prepped for the gambit.

More to the point though, do you disagree that a masonry fakeclaim becomes flimsier as the game goes on, and is thus a bad lynch currently?

[Thomith]

This is exactly why I am more inclined to believe that this whole mason stuff is complete and utter bullshit. Thomith is now concocting a story about how he didn't want the obvious connection to his mason buddy who flips maifa???? The whole point of masonry is that they are confirmed town to each other!

nice way to

completely twist my words

VOTE: xvart because why would town try to twist someones words?

Out of curiousity, PanzThom, do you have daytalk capabilities?

Yes we have daytalk.

[Twistedspoon]

Votecount2.7

Did you know?: Jellyfish evaporate in the sun as they are 98% water

Monk(3) - Sundy, PBuG, Panzerjager

Xvart(4) - Monk, Thefool, Hoppster, thomith
Panzerjager(1) - Xvart
Thefool(1) - empking

Not Voting (1): Heliman

With 10 Alive it takes 6 to lynch, 5 to no lynch.
The deadline is 13th July GMT 08:00[/b]

[/size]

Deadline is <15 hours away :0

[xvart]

My gut says that mason-claiming scum wouldn't claim daytalk if they didn't have it themselves. As such, Thomith's obliviousness isn't necessarily a scum tell, since he'd presumably be prepped for the gambit.

It doesn't really matter because we can't prove daytalking capabilities either way.

Panzer - you have yet to answer why:

1. You thought SleepyKrew's miller mason claim was serious;
   
2. You didn't believe that there would be two mason groups in the same game;
   
3. SleepyKrew was not a member of your supposed mason group;
   
4. You didn't vote SleepyKrew, who for all practical purposes, claimed scum from your point of view.

More to the point though, do you disagree that a masonry fakeclaim becomes flimsier as the game goes on, and is thus a bad lynch currently?

Depending on the setup and the amount of WIFOM that the town is willing to take, yes. However, I have seen scum fake claim mason before in situations where sustainability of the claim is difficult. I do not see the logic in withholding a lynch on someone, regardless of claim, in hopes that it gets busted open later. When scumhunting I look for motivation and intent. When someone contradicts previous statements and actions he has committed, especially when it direct correlates to game momentum/wagon movement, it is scummy.

With this in mind, and in my defense, the point that should be made is what is the scum motivation, intent, and benefit from being such a vocal player, advocating for lynches and fighting tooth and nail for lynches, and drawing incredible amounts of attention because of this? Furthermore, what is the scum benefit from continuing to push a lynch on someone who claimed mason unless I really believed it. Is that the sort of attention that a scum member would want?

If Panzer/Thomith are not scum then I would probably consider PBuG and Hoppster as scum. I haven't liked Empking's posting/voting as of late, but from my limited experience playing with him this isn't a scumtell. Hoppster has been fairly absent from the game since I shifted attention off of him.

I'm not claiming until there is an intent to hammer.

[PJ.]

Yes

Seriously? Then why did you yell at Thom about his bad choice of vote in-thread?

Because we haven't used it in forever, I felt it would be a waste of my time, and I seriously thought he forgot his role. If he truly did forget his role he wouldn't have the qt cause it's in the PM that says "DUDE WHY ARE YOU VOTING YOUR FUCKING MASON PARTNER"

[PJ.]

My gut says that mason-claiming scum wouldn't claim daytalk if they didn't have it themselves. As such, Thomith's obliviousness isn't necessarily a scum tell, since he'd presumably be prepped for the gambit.

It doesn't really matter because we can't prove daytalking capabilities either way.

Panzer - you have yet to answer why:

1. You thought SleepyKrew's miller mason claim was serious;
   
2. You didn't believe that there would be two mason groups in the same game;
   
3. SleepyKrew was not a member of your supposed mason group;
   
4. You didn't vote SleepyKrew, who for all practical purposes, claimed scum from your point of view.

More to the point though, do you disagree that a masonry fakeclaim becomes flimsier as the game goes on, and is thus a bad lynch currently?

Depending on the setup and the amount of WIFOM that the town is willing to take, yes. However, I have seen scum fake claim mason before in situations where sustainability of the claim is difficult. I do not see the logic in withholding a lynch on someone, regardless of claim, in hopes that it gets busted open later. When scumhunting I look for motivation and intent. When someone contradicts previous statements and actions he has committed, especially when it direct correlates to game momentum/wagon movement, it is scummy.

With this in mind, and in my defense, the point that should be made is what is the scum motivation, intent, and benefit from being such a vocal player, advocating for lynches and fighting tooth and nail for lynches, and drawing incredible amounts of attention because of this? Furthermore, what is the scum benefit from continuing to push a lynch on someone who claimed mason unless I really believed it. Is that the sort of attention that a scum member would want?

If Panzer/Thomith are not scum then I would probably consider PBuG and Hoppster as scum. I haven't liked Empking's posting/voting as of late, but from my limited experience playing with him this isn't a scumtell. Hoppster has been fairly absent from the game since I shifted attention off of him.

I'm not claiming until there is an intent to hammer.

On the first bit, I just liked the Empking lynch better. I wasn't really thinking about the implications it would have when I did have to claim.

The second bit is just ridiculous,The first paragraph is simply refuted by saying I had three votes on me, and the momentum was clearly swaying on a CC lynch. The second paragraph screams of scum to me. Do you think you're the only vocal player on this site that has had to play scum? Keep in mind site history. Twito was awesome scum before he got banned and he was one of the most vocal players ever. Jdodge and TSQ are also decent scum and both are fairly vocal. Also, pushing the lynch of the masons would save your own ass as scum, and give you a chance to say "oops my bad tomorrow".

[Twistedspoon]

less than 12 hours until the night phase

[Thomith]

any chance of a deadline extention? :/

anyway xvart was twisting my words in the last post and monk has been trying his best to scumhunt and gut says he is town, if not xvart then fool because of EK's reasoning. I need to go soon and wont be back for deadline to assure we dont NL. sorry in advance if it matters.