Micro 759: Tarot uPick III - Game Over!

[Yetichain]

VOTE: northsidegal

Really struggling here. 642 came across as pretty fake to me though, on top of my previous tentative scumread.


-Key

what about it seems fake? why do you think i would fake that as scum?

I have no doubt that you would be meticulous as scum and those are very well notes you could have made. It's that opening the hood, in a way, trying to show the thought process underneath feels odd from you and not an approach I would expect if you were town.

Another reason that I've found hard to articulate is that you've seen me play as town and I don't believe you've mentioned the fact that I'm playing very differently. I just got prodded, for chrissakes. The fact that you're somehow drawing parallels to my usual play feels like you're not recognising those differences in your notes. I know that I view playstyles very differently when I'm playing town or scum, making it hard to apply knowledge across alignments, and I've been lynched as scum before for it so I remember the lesson. You've only ever been town in games with me.

This observation probably wouldn't have been as meaningful to me if you hadn't indicated in your notes that you were considering our past games. It's always an exercise in ego to assume someone knows your meta well enough to recognise you're town, but I don't understand why you aren't more suspicious of me here.

You seem to be approaching me somewhat shallowly and it feels more like buddying than anything. Can't remember, were you scumreading me at any point, can you link any posts?


PEdit: working on it @NK15 + nancy

[Yetichain]

Okay so where does that leave me?

Yetichain
NK15

Porkens
nancy
acidphoenix

---

Dunkers
drealmerz7

Jabarkas
North


Something like this, I think. Off the top of my head.

nancy, what would you define as content? I can go further into my reads if you like. In doing so they'll probably shift around.

[nancy]

Going further into your reads from the bottom up sounds like a good idea!

With maybe a little bit of special emphasis on acidphoenix as I don't understand his placement in that tier.

[nancy]

Actually, a better way to do this is to just talk about whichever reads interest you the most right now, regardless of where they are placed on the list.

[Yetichain]

Okay! Top of my mind are you and Porkens because there's certain solid things that are making me townread you.

Townread on you is partially due to your certainty that you'll be nightkilled. If you know you're not going to be, then shouting it now just sets you up for having to explain it away later.

Townread on Porkens is primarily because of rapid read changes, especially whichever post that was where he went from reads to a whole lot of question marks and unsurety. It's a bold move as scum to do that so early on.

The rest are either things I've already said and need to revisit (acid, Jabarkas) or just feelings (Dunkers, dreal).

The acid read in particular is still a hangover from the last superficial lookover I gave him. I'll focus on that first.

[nancy]

Townread on Porkens is primarily because of rapid read changes, especially whichever post that was where he went from reads to a whole lot of question marks and unsurety. It's a bold move as scum to do that so early on.

Would you mind talking about this more after you look at acid please?

[Yetichain]

Yup I can do that.

[nancy]

Thanks!

[Yetichain]

Oh yeah acid's 417 gave me severe townvibes, just the whole "I'm interested in finding someone good to talk with" seems pretty towny but could easily be a scum neighbouriser I suppose, just seems like he wouldn't have outed it in that case. That was pretty much it - he doesn't give a lot to work with, but he should be about in the next 24 hours (though he went V/LA in 544). What little he did say felt like it had forward push though, like 247 he looks like he is interested in having the substance behind the points and a couple of times he seems to have done a background research. Like he seems like he's at least somewhat interested in finding the answers, even though his overall activity indicates otherwise.

Though wtf where does that gut townread on me come from I'd like to get an explanation for that


Incidentally nancy, I've only ever specced one game with Regfan but you two have very similar writing styles. Just the way you drop some of your subjects, like the 'I's, and sometimes the 'it's as well I think. Is that deliberate?


Porkens next.

[nancy]

Why does he need to out his role in order to find someone good to neighborize? I don't understand this line of reasoning from you very well.

I find the point about background research in 247 to be pretty weak since that's relatively easy to fake and moreover he didn't really follow up with the read once I showed him where I had seen drealmer emotionally invested in theorytalk as mafia, but it looks like that's a minor point for you so I'm fine with that I guess?

I don't understand why you're so emphatic about townreads on you not making sense? Why do you think you deserve to be scumread so much?

I'm nothing like Regfan he's a complete and utter noob how dare you. No it isn't intentional his bad habits must be rubbing off on me a bit I guess I've been spending too much time around him recently. >:[

[Yetichain]

The Porkens post I'm talking about is 348. He went from budding reads on several players in 303 to starting over again. That attempt to get a grip on the gamestate and then failing and restarting again is not something I would expect from scum?

In 357 he mentions that he'll "just have to throw ideas around till something feels righter", which was a major marker of what I saw as really worrying about him when he was town and I was scum in the game mentioned in 274. I would expect more solidity from scum building mislynches or associations or what have you, it just seems pretty out there for him to pretty much scrap them and start over.


I'll get to your response in a sec.

[Yetichain]

Why does he need to out his role in order to find someone good to neighborize? I don't understand this line of reasoning from you very well.

I find the point about background research in 247 to be pretty weak since that's relatively easy to fake and moreover he didn't really follow up with the read once I showed him where I had seen drealmer emotionally invested in theorytalk as mafia, but it looks like that's a minor point for you so I'm fine with that I guess?

I don't understand why you're so emphatic about townreads on you not making sense? Why do you think you deserve to be scumread so much?

I'm nothing like Regfan he's a complete and utter noob how dare you. No it isn't intentional his bad habits must be rubbing off on me a bit I guess I've been spending too much time around him recently. >:[

First point is true but why would he do it as scum? It's the motivation that looks towny to me. Neighbourisers don't have to out themselves to get a good target but I don't know how well he's been following the game so claiming to get offers might have made sense to him. The result was that you outright asked him to neighbourise you. You're right in that his investment isn't strong but I'm not inclined to scumread him for that, it's like... if he hasn't provided much in the way of contribution I won't have a lot to inform my read either way. Not married to this read though I'm still leaning town.

re: not liking townreads on me - for one in this game I think I've been playing really badly. I'm in a micro and for pretty much the entire Day I've ignored the majority of the playerlist and instead gotten enmeshed in this one scumread which was literally the only thing that motivated me to keep posting. Despite this Acid has this town gutread on me which I don't understand at all, he's not given a reason and I find strong unreasoned townreads often come from scum, tied in with the suspicion thing I was talking about regarding NK15. North on the other hand seems to be townreading me with parallels to past games which like I said, I find really odd. I don't know, my estimation of my play this game could be spilling over from my overall headspace right now. Being suspicious of townreads on me is pretty usual though.

But I might have to check timing to see what I had posted as of these townreads, the Acid one at least was pretty early.

[drealmerz7]

not trying to defend acidphoenix just saying that I get strong unreasoned reads as town quite often

[Yetichain]

Yeah but they're always worth looking into - I find scum develop strong unreasoned townreads on me often enough (in my handful of games where I actually rolled town, disclaimer) to make it a good place to look from my perspective.

Like I'm leaning town on him, so evidently I don't think it's unequivocally scum. Also hello!

[nancy]

First point is true but why would he do it as scum? It's the motivation that looks towny to me. Neighbourisers don't have to out themselves to get a good target but I don't know how well he's been following the game so claiming to get offers might have made sense to him. The result was that you outright asked him to neighbourise you. You're right in that his investment isn't strong but I'm not inclined to scumread him for that, it's like... if he hasn't provided much in the way of contribution I won't have a lot to inform my read either way. Not married to this read though I'm still leaning town.

My first point wasn't a point, it was a question.

What I'm looking for from you is articulation of why you think the whole "interested in finding someone to talk to" is something that is town / gives you intense town vibes, if you suppose it could just as easily be a scum neighborizer then why are you reading it as town? Those two are very contradictory. I would like to understand what you think the motivation is there that exists for town and not for scum. Why wouldn't he have done that as mafia?

But I might have to check timing to see what I had posted as of these townreads, the Acid one at least was pretty early.

Yeah I think that is at least worth noting; his townread on you came before any of the scummy stuff you described about yourself so looking into that an explaining why the townread is suspicious to in the context it was made would be helpful, if you want to give another take there.

[Yetichain]

Not a point you made so much as a point I should take into account!

Okay so assuming Acid is certainly a neighbouriser.

scum!Acid has the motivation to presumably find someone he thinks he could pocket, I've only seen a scum neighbouriser once and that seemed to be the way to go about it. In addition to that, he will have a scum partner who can suggest options for a target even if he himself is not caught up on the game. I don't see why, in this situation, he'd be claiming and getting expressions of interest since he has no need for that extra information. Like it means he's claimed in case it's relevant later, I guess, but not sure that's worth it. He could be a scum neighbouriser but I don't believe that he'd play it this way, so the townread holds. It's just something I didn't think of earlier but now I've considered it I'm still happy with this conclusion.

town!Acid only has himself to rely on, he seems to be busy with RL, he's got a neighbouriser and he doesn't know who to use it on. This scenario seems considerably more likely to result in him claiming the way he did. Like it suggests he has a lack of information if that makes sense, which I consider town-indicative.


If the townread came first I guess it could make sense in that context then but it is still something I'd really super like to hear more from him about - that's something I still find an interesting starting point regardless of my own perception of my play in any single game. Not much else I can really do with it from there without more from him unfortunately.


Do you have a vested interest in me changing this read or are you sorting me?

[nancy]

I have to cut this short sorry my girlfriend just came by suddenly, hope we can finish talking later.

[Yetichain]

That's fine! I'm going away tomorrow, so not sure of the chances but one can always hope.

[Not Known 15]

That's fine! I'm going away tomorrow, so not sure of the chances but one can always hope.

Can you vote North, then? Deadline is close...

[Not Known 15]

Nvm you are already voting North.

[nancy]

Have a brief bit of time while my gf is predisposed for a minute.

Thanks for running me through your thoughts on those two scenarios. I think you've touched on the main points that I was seeing there myself which is just it's a very unnecessary thing to do and makes more sense coming from someone who is really lazy/careless about their role and how it's used, think that type of -EV play is generically a little +town, with the secondary point to that being that if he's town then claiming and talking about neighborizing someone functions as a way for him to get reads whereas if he's mafia then he's playing some sort of game where his neighborize is the prize which mostly just seems like too much effort to being going into for too little especially since it's going to attract attention to him and potentially limit his options. Nothing super compelling for me to think that he's not just careless mafia and I'm reading too much into it though so it's a grain of salt type thing for me and I think our big difference is the strength of the read we were getting from it, although you seem to have clarified that you're not doing more than leaning town so maybe not that much in the end.

Not trying to change your read. Gotta go.

[Yetichain]

Okay I'm out of time unfortunately. I'm leaving my vote on my most confident scumread but I'll try and check when I wake up in case there's somewhere more useful to put it.

@Mod: V/LA until Monday

One more thing - I won't be around to claim it if necessary and it's important for you to know in case you decide to lynch me at the very last second that we are Loved for Day 1 and require six votes to lynch.

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

That kinda bothers me, if only because;
if town, totally makes sense to claim that due to being V/LA through the deadline, would keep a no-lynch from happening.
if scum, seems like a deterrent to keep people from trying to go for his wagon this close to deadline and the fact it's loved on D1 only makes it really convenient as something that'll never come up/be proven wrong after today anyway.

Actually factually, nevermind, it baffles me why he'd claim that at all because
1. The specificity of D1 loved is really awkward and underpowered sounding
2. If he's town and he gets in lynch range, him being secret loved keeps a mislynch from happening anyway

Seems more likely to be a faked scum claim than legit townclaim, and strikes me as especially awkward because I don't think Yeti's realistically going to get lynched over NSG or NK15 given the day phase, but maybe Yeti hadn't caught up completely or doesn't understand the game-state??

-V

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

Milk toast? Jabarkas is more partial to milk steak.

Spoiler:

Anyways, Jabarkas doesn't see how Not Clown's "counter claim" makes any sense from a scum perspective. Why would he blow his load on a counter on day 1 and take away his options of a better claim closer to lylo?
For that reason, Jabarkas is out when it comes to Not Clown's lynch.

VOTE: Southfrontguy

[Jabarkas Mayonnaise]

That was me, btw, lol

-XL