DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Pesco Light requested replacement.

Votecount as of post 347:

Yosariwen:

7

:Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops, Apples and Banana, Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd
Raging Wishbone:

2

:Zaphod Beeblebrox, Yosariwen
sex w/ shafteds wife club:

1

:PoketheAlpaca,
Ortohoops:

1

:J-Scope,
Zmd:

1

:Death the Hogfather,

not voting:

0

:

while 12 are alive, 7 votes will lynch

Yosariwen, an Armenian mafia doctor, was lynched on Sat May 02, 2009 at 8:28 pm. It is now twilight. Twilight expires between 6 and 18 hours from the time the last vote on Yosariwen was cast.

[whoami8]

hells yeah

[Ortohoops]

That kicks ass. With an accurate vig/SK around, I'm kinda thinking bussing your last buddy wouldn't be high on the priority list, or at least not an option until he had a decent chance of going down.

Time for rereading!

[whoami8]

So scum should be among:
Poke, J-scope, Hogfather, DGPlum

[Ortohoops]

So, I guess that means Yos didn't use his save on Trotsky for action phase 1. I think normally, before the game, Trotsky would be the sort of player that you'd consider being in the spotlight for a vig/SK kill though, which makes me wonder why, or who Yos would use the save on. Who would be more likely than Trotsky?

[whoami8]

So, I guess that means Yos didn't use his save on Trotsky for action phase 1. I think normally, before the game, Trotsky would be the sort of player that you'd consider being in the spotlight for a vig/SK kill though, which makes me wonder why, or who Yos would use the save on. Who would be more likely than Trotsky?

I'm guessing that means they have a GF. It'd have to be someone more useful than a Roleblocker.

I'm thinking J-Scope, though possible PoketheAlpaca.

DGB why have you been strangely quiet?

[Ortohoops]

well a cursory read of this thread has told me yosariwen, incamnito and zaphod are town

i'd vote for frog dodging but my better half apparently already had the right idea

well a cursory read of this thread has told me yosariwen, incamnito and zaphod are town

i'd vote for frog dodging but my better half apparently already had the right idea

This is an excellent early quote from scum Trotsky calling out three people as town. It's undoubtedly going to be labelled wifom, but I don't think rofl (I presume it was him) wouldn't put in a scumbuddy if he was going to make these early claims.

So, if one were to be scum, who is worth looking at?

Vote:Trotsky

Hasn't posted yet.

-Yos

i like that you singled me out. why so protective of sex w/ shafted's wife, raging wishbone, frog dodging, zmd, apples and banana, i wonder?

Here's an early post worth looking at, which makes it odd he'd put Yosariwen in his early town list.

--

In other news, I'm getting good feelings from SWSWC based on Trotsky's interactions with them, coupled with their proactive posting.

We need to hear more from Hogfather, ZMD and A&B though.

So, before I was speculating on Trotsky including scumbuddies in his early list of town players. Incamn has flipped town, and Yos has flipped scum. I know it's wifom again, but I wouldn't put past the idea of perhaps including

both

his buddies in his list.

Note a couple of key Zaphod posts;

Ortohoops' post noting something Trotsky said early is good. It may involve WIFOM but I'm inclined to agree that Trotsky was more likely pointing out three actual townies (Myself is confirmed to me, Incamn has flipped, and I'm inclined to say Yosariwen is town without this).

Both of Zaphod's heads disagree with the wagon on Yosariwen. The intense focus on it is getting in the way of other avenues of scum hunting and detrimental to the town.

We noticed that Yosariwen is not voting. Perhaps a good starting point to diversifying discussion would be for Yosariwen to analyze players and post a list of suspects.

--

I think this is the way I'm going to go once the cooldown phase is over. DGB has been uncharacteristically quiet this game - I don't know if she's trying to alter her own scum meta, or she's just been busy, but I don't like her ties with Yos-scum.

[Raging Wishbone]

That kicks ass. With an accurate vig/SK around, I'm kinda thinking bussing your last buddy wouldn't be high on the priority list, or at least not an option until he had a decent chance of going down.

Time for rereading!

Nice, well played town! I need to do a reread as well and hopefully RR will have a chance to looke at everything in detail soon.

So, I guess that means Yos didn't use his save on Trotsky for action phase 1. I think normally, before the game, Trotsky would be the sort of player that you'd consider being in the spotlight for a vig/SK kill though, which makes me wonder why, or who Yos would use the save on. Who would be more likely than Trotsky?

I'm guessing that means they have a GF. It'd have to be someone more useful than a Roleblocker.

I'm thinking J-Scope, though possible PoketheAlpaca.

DGB why have you been strangely quiet?

I agree with this, and RR made metnion of it early in the game. She was extremely pro-active in the last two games I played with her and seems active elsewhere on MS, so I am not sure why she is not more involved.

FOS: DGB/Plum

I think Jscope has seemed very involved and very analytical in all their posts. I don't think they have done anything scummy. I am not sure what to think of Poke/Tajo but I also have not gotten any bad vibes from them. I would love to hear more from Poke/Tajo and, expecially DGB/Plum.

I will be back with more thoughts after a full reread and hopefully RR will add his thoughts soon too. I would love to find more links with Trotsky and Yo/Nuwen...

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

DGB why have you been strangely quiet?

I will say this. I'd be very surprised if Yosariwen was bus'ed. I would look for scum off the wagon, or very late on the wagon. Not pushing the wagon or early. I say this, fully realizing that I was off the wagon.

As to why I'm quiet. First of all other games have exhausted me lately and turned me off the game to quite a degree. Secondly Xyl doesn't like me anymore and has blacklisted me and this saddens me. Third, I find that there is a trend of people tunneling irrationally on players to the extend of disrupting scumhunting efforts and making things generally unpleasant. I find that I really don't enjoy that sort of game atmosphere one bit. It's like half the players are Fritzlerized. I'm going to finish my games, but I won't sign up for new ones for a while, if ever. I may still run a fun game in August. We'll see.

Looking at the wagon, I'd say that:

Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops,

Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd

The players in green are almost confirmed town. Those in blue to a lesser extent, it might be last minute desperate distancing/bus'ing.

I'm also nearly certain that there is one scum among the below:

PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope,Death the Hogfather

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

I agree with this, and RR made metnion of it early in the game. She was extremely pro-active in the last two games I played with her and seems active elsewhere on MS, so I am not sure why she is not more involved.

Like I said in the previous post. I'm pretty beat up and I'm scrunched up in my corner licking my wounds.

Anyway. After I gave Yosariwen some headroom to hunt scum, they didn't take the opportunity, but rather dug themselves in the defensive position.

This is what the Yosariwen hydra chose to post:

Anyway, my main suspect right now is Raging Wishbone. Early on, they were defending me; then all of a sudden they turned around and joined my wagon, for reasons that make absolutly no sense at all. And it's interesting to note that he was not willing to hammer me, but wanted on to the bandwagon when it wasn't a hammer; which just makes it look like he knows the wagon is going to go bad, and dosn't want to take the blame for it.

Vote:Raging wishbone

No natural OMGUS, no outrage at being wagoned unfairly... only a weak case against a single player.

Paradoxically, I agree with Yosariwen's analysis, flavored as it is with distancing, because Raging Wishbone acted exactly the way one would expect scum to react to the Day 1 wagon of a valuable buddy. First defending, then joining for reasons that make no sense, but not willing to hammer.

I would wager that Raging Wishbone is Yosariwen's buddy. Opinions?

[Raging Wishbone]

I agree with this, and RR made metnion of it early in the game. She was extremely pro-active in the last two games I played with her and seems active elsewhere on MS, so I am not sure why she is not more involved.

Like I said in the previous post. I'm pretty beat up and I'm scrunched up in my corner licking my wounds.

Anyway. After I gave Yosariwen some headroom to hunt scum, they didn't take the opportunity, but rather dug themselves in the defensive position.

This is what the Yosariwen hydra chose to post:

Anyway, my main suspect right now is Raging Wishbone. Early on, they were defending me; then all of a sudden they turned around and joined my wagon, for reasons that make absolutly no sense at all. And it's interesting to note that he was not willing to hammer me, but wanted on to the bandwagon when it wasn't a hammer; which just makes it look like he knows the wagon is going to go bad, and dosn't want to take the blame for it.

Vote:Raging wishbone

No natural OMGUS, no outrage at being wagoned unfairly... only a weak case against a single player.

Paradoxically, I agree with Yosariwen's analysis, flavored as it is with distancing, because Raging Wishbone acted exactly the way one would expect scum to react to the Day 1 wagon of a valuable buddy. First defending, then joining for reasons that make no sense, but not willing to hammer.

I would wager that Raging Wishbone is Yosariwen's buddy. Opinions?

Find following my response and feelings on the subject. During the course of the discussion that I instigated because I wanted to be sure this was a good wagon, the one thing Yos wrote several times was just wait Nuwen is going to post later tonight to explain herself. When she finally posted, her post was full of contadiction, bad logic and worst of all was her contrived daytalk. You of all people should have been unnerved by that alone DGB, considering we both played in Lovers multiball together.... He fake IM convo reeked of scum posting something to make themselves look town....

The reasons for your vote on RW isn't incredibly logical if you stop to think about it.

Sure they are.

When RW thought I was going to be lynched without his help, he defended me, trying to position himself so he'd look good when I died.

THen, when hogfather unvoted me and it looked like I might survive, he voted me, to make sure that didn't happen. The reasons for his switch were very weak, and made very little sense.

The whole flip there really looks like a scum manuever.

Ah I see your point upon rereading. I think you're earlier mention you highlighted the reluctance to be the hammer but happy to be the L-1 vote which doesn't make much difference.

This was actually an extremely long exchange which consisted of four pages and I think lasted over six hours and I became extremely sloppy as the night came to an end. I am comfortable with my vote on Yos, even at putting them at L1 and will answer any questions if they flip Town. After putting more thought into the matter I feel it was a good lynch, I began the day defending them because I was not confident that the bread crumbing was enough for them to be wagoned as hard as they were. I wanted to start a discussion which would generate a dilaog to invloved more players and more opinions. I felt the responses on why yoso was the best lynch by other players who added their thoughts seemed reasonable. I was not impressed by Nuwens long post at the end of the evening, I felt thier were contradictions and errors in logic. The im conversation really hit a nerve and reminded me of how in LB, scum used the posting of daytalk to make themselves seem more Townie. Some of the daytalk from the scum teams were the most convincing. After having gone through that extremely long day/night, I felt good about casting my vote. I do believe that is a lynch and we will find out shortly if it was good or not.

Also, if you have four top suspects, why are you trying to build a wagon elsewhere? OMGUS much? Don't you think we would be better served scumhunting among your top supspects?

Looking at the wagon, I'd say that:

Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops,

Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd

The players in green are almost confirmed town. Those in blue to a lesser extent, it might be last minute desperate distancing/bus'ing.

I'm also nearly certain that there is one scum among the below:

PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope,Death the Hogfather

I am very happy voting for plum/DGb. The same thing can be said for them as far attempting to derail the yos wagon. Yos/Nuwen went back to their daytalk thread along with Plum/DGB, they decided the best way to derail the Yos wagon would be to start one on me, hence Plums long post and subsequent vote for me, follwed by Yos vote. It all seems very calculated and rehearsed in my opinion.

VOTE: Zaphod Beeblebrox

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

@ RW

I am not trying to start a wagon on you, I asked for other player's opinions for the purpose of discussing.

I don't have "4 top suspects."

What I did is to eliminate players on the wagon that almost certainly town.

Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.

Reading is tech.

[Ortohoops]

Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.

Why do you think two scum?

[Raging Wishbone]

@ RW

I am not trying to start a wagon on you, I asked for other player's opinions for the purpose of discussing.

I don't have "4 top suspects."

What I did is to eliminate players on the wagon that almost certainly town.

Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.

Reading is tech.

I am still doing a re-read, I will post more thoughts soonish if I can. Yeah, I apologize you wrote 3 in red, so do you have any kinda case on Death the hog, Jscope, or Tajo/Poker team? I am not seeing anything odd in their posts so far? I need to read Death again, but for some reason I thought he was on the Yo/Nuw wagon? Anyways, I will finish my reread and I would like to talk to my partner when he comes around to hear his thoughts. If you have a case against someone, please post it.

[Ortohoops]

Is it just me, or does Raging Wishbone sound really dirty?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Then I think it's likely that one scum is in the red group, and another in the blue group.

Why do you think two scum?

It's on "average." I expect, on average, one scum in the first group, and another in the second group. If there is a third scum, it would be in the blue group if the player was sure that Yosariwen was going down in flames, or in the green group if the player thought there was hope and maybe even lurked.

I think it's important to check the reasons why players hopped late on the wagon, and the circumstances. As for the red group, we need to examine the manner in which they stayed off.

@ RW No I don't yet have a case on a particular player.

[Frog Dodging]

Hah, you have no idea how close I was to unvoting there. I'm so glad I didn't.

Flavour reveals the dead, specifically, as Armenian Mafia. We know we have two killing groups. What are the odds that there are two scumgroups? I know two scumgroups is always tight in a game this size, but it's a possibility.

Regardless, I aboslutely agree on the Raging Wishbone thing. His vote on Yos2 at the end of the day looks really odd - especially when a lot of the really damning stuff (e.g. the faux-contradiction) has already been cleared up. If there are three players' in Yos' group, then I would call it pretty likely that RW was in there.

I am not trying to start a wagon on you, I asked for other player's opinions for the purpose of discussing.

You may be cool enough to store a side of pork in for a month, but this kind of wordplay is not kosher. When you ask for discussion about an action, you presumably want discussion for some reason - and when you say that you think it is scummy, you are starting it off on whether or not the action is scummy. Which is how bandwagons are formed.

Again, I need to discuss stuff with my partner. There's a lot we need to get through.

[SensFan]

Looking at the wagon, I'd say that:

Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops,

Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd

The players in green are almost confirmed town. Those in blue to a lesser extent, it might be last minute desperate distancing/bus'ing.

I'm also nearly certain that there is one scum among the below:

PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope,Death the Hogfather

Not sure where in the timeline, I think I'm between Hoops and Pesco, but I was also on the wagon.

[Death the Hogfather]

Definitely not complaining about that. 2 scum down, one to go (plus possibly an SK). I am sorta disappointed about not getting on to hammer earlier today as I planned to. Meh.

Alright, I like DGB/Plum as town personally. I don't think Trotsky would have made it that easy for us.

@Frog: 0% chance of a second scumgroup according to the first post.

@all: I pretty much agree completely on the Raging Wishbone being scum thing. They need to die ASAP. Sorry I don't have more to add at the moment. I'm working on getting into this game, but its somewhat difficult.

-goes off to shoot hydra partner who seems to have disappeared-

vote: Raging Wishbone

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Looking at the wagon, I'd say that:

Frog Dodging, sex w/ shafteds wife club, Ortohoops,

Pesco Light, Raging Wishbone, Zmd

The players in green are almost confirmed town. Those in blue to a lesser extent, it might be last minute desperate distancing/bus'ing.

I'm also nearly certain that there is one scum among the below:

PoketheAlpaca, J-Scope,Death the Hogfather

Not sure where in the timeline, I think I'm between Hoops and Pesco, but I was also on the wagon.

Did you vote with your hydra name, or as SensFan? Because if you voted as SensFan, it didn't count.

Looking at PescoLight, RagingWishbone and Zmd, I'd say that both PescoLight and Zmd were the most convincing scum hunters. But I'm not sure how reliable my scumdar is these days.

Between PokeTheAlpaca, J-Scope and Death the Hogfather, PokeTheAlpaca is just putzing around doing nothing, least of all scum hunting. J-scope was all over the place voting everyonr under the sun. Speed-wagoning??? Seens a little too careless to be scummy. Death the Hogfater voted Yosariwen then switched to Kmd when the wagon gained traction.

I'd say that RW, PTA and DTH are the scummiest of the lot.

And a reminder:

Sorry I still don't get it, there was not 50% of the votes places on Incangnitoan? Alright so Nuwen made a huge MISTAKE? As far as my meta and previous experiences playing with her, she seems to think she is incapable of mistakes? I'm not sure I am buying this?

this tone is so fake.

add post 119, 121 and 127 to the picture and you get a scummyperson. i count appeal to emotion, buddying up, strawmanning, ad hominem and a strong and apparently baseless conviction in pescolight's townliness. war in heaven people, was walt wishbone's posting so annoyingly scummy? i doubt these posts are raging rabbit, unless he had a severe concussion. (yes, i am korts atm and haven't consulted rofl about this)

[whoami8]

As to why I'm quiet. First of all other games have exhausted me lately and turned me off the game to quite a degree. Secondly Xyl doesn't like me anymore and has blacklisted me and this saddens me. Third, I find that there is a trend of people tunneling irrationally on players to the extend of disrupting scumhunting efforts and making things generally unpleasant. I find that I really don't enjoy that sort of game atmosphere one bit. It's like half the players are Fritzlerized. I'm going to finish my games, but I won't sign up for new ones for a while, if ever. I may still run a fun game in August. We'll see.

You're bar none my favorite player on this site. This saddens me.

[whoami8]

My current reads primarily of the nonYos voters:

DGBPlum: HAve you ever read a game with DBGscum and daytalking. It's her favorite. She wouldn't be participating this little IMHO. least likely

J-Scope: Didn't he bring up a key timing contradiction. Not sure why he didnt vote, but scum in such a precarious spot not so likely to bringing that to light.

Death theHog: forgot about the vote switch not a bad candidate.

PokeThe Alpaca: these guys just feel off. Avoided the Yoswen discussion and randomly tried to get a bandwagon going on me with no evidence. weird.

YosVoters:
See my analysis as to why Yos voters are unlikely scum. I think we haven't had a kill this phase because scum couldn't kill without suiciding Yos. Zmd is the only possible scum amongst the Yos voters IMHO.

Shanba: interesting point about the second scum group, but wouldn't that require a THIRD kill?

[PoketheAlpaca]

<<PF Catching Up. I haven't been feeling healthy as of late. I'll let you guys know if i get worse and or need out of any of my games. I just came back to mafia and I don't want to leave like this since I've never replaced out of anything.

What specifically in post 89? The first two paragraphs? My TL;DR point there is I don’t think it was a vig kill.

Basically it feels like you are not acting on your thoughts. You speculated and really reach no real conclusion. You've been doing alot of Fos's too without voting so it's kinda like that.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 05#1648405

well a cursory read of this thread has told me

yosariwen

, incamnito and zaphod are town

i'd vote for frog dodging but my better half apparently already had the right idea

This is an excellent early quote from scum Trotsky calling out three people as town. It's undoubtedly going to be labelled wifom, but I don't think rofl (I presume it was him) wouldn't put in a scumbuddy if he was going to make these early claims.

So, if one were to be scum, who is worth looking at?

Trotsky and Yos were both scum I'm starting to think one of Zaphod or ortohoops is scum.

More posting and

anal

later (around 8 hours time).

Kinky

What rolefishing are you talking about? You really think Yosariwen is scum?

...are you sure you've been reading the game Tajo, you've been very sloppy so far.

As far as the crumb outting goes - doesn't it make sense if they were scum to not mention it and bring it up in the thread. Sure they could have been fishing for confirmation - but risk bringing that much obvious attention to themselves? They're both better players than that. To me, it doesn't look like a smart move for either alignment, but it could be more useful for scum.

Nice wifom defense of Yosariwen

Sexy shaft, you need to stop feeling sorry, killing scum should make you happy, they're both very competent players. Their actions were bizarre enough for players of their standards - they've had multiple pressing cases against them in areas not even crumb-outing related. It's not like they're being killed off solely for one mistake.

The town needs to finish off this wagon and kickstart a new one soon.

Wait what? First you say there are too smart to do this and then you say their actions are bizzare and they are caught? I'm thinking you just switch from help your scum buddie to mega distance mode.

In addition to Yoswen pointing out the breadcrumb, we have J-Scope fishing to understand it. One or both need to die faster.

I wasn't fishing because I hadn't bought the crumb theory. In both those posts I thought Incamn had voted for ZMD because of Portishead. Incamn explicitly said:

Vote ZMD

why?

I was listening to Portishead...

Which I took to mean that ZMD also listens to Portishead or should relate to the joke vote on some level. If anything, in the back of my mind I was wondering if "Portishead" was an inside joke or some

clue

to another game they had played together in. So I wanted a reaction from them that might confirm something along those lines.

You look too much into clues me thinks. Inside jokes are laughed at by parties involved. You have said nothing and or waited for a laugh.

I kinda think...

yousonew
sexwithashaft

...and probably frogdoger may be townies. In fact without my partner around I would unvote frogdodge if he was in danger of being lynched... Yoso I am just not so sure about,

I also dont like that she is posting elsewhere as someone else pointed out but not here?

Oh and lastly Apples and Bannas trying to get someone modkilled does not sit well with me at all.

Please stop being wishy washy.

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 59#1649359
I'm guessing tajo voted SWSW here because he thought SWSW trying to blame A&B for a modkill attempt was scummy. I don't think its bad if A&B were only ones they saw online. Thinking there is some crazed conspiracy involving modkillings
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 54#1649554
is just stupid. I doubt SWSW is with trotsky and yos considering that looked way too heavy to be a bus. They could be SK but their heavy activness makes me think the could be town.

So far I got most suspicion of ortohoops considering the shit defence and distancing I pointed out. I've read up to page ten reading the next five now and if nothing changes I'll be voting ortohoops when twighlight ends.

[PoketheAlpaca]

EBWOP:
You

should

have said nothing and or waited for a laugh

not gone into it

[Kairyuu]

@SWSWC:

Shanba: interesting point about the second scum group, but wouldn't that require a THIRD kill?

The first post. Please read it. It says that there will be only one scumteam.