DHSDSM alpha: Game Over.

[Saunt Adelaus]

nyballosulgniirkps, Townie, was killed

Votecount as of 632

not voting:

3

:J-Scope, Ortohoops, Raging Wishbone,

while 3 are alive, 2 votes will lynch

edit: it takes 2 votes to lynch, not 3.

[ortolan]

I think the most important question at this point is:

J-Scope: who do you think is scum?

[J-Scope]

I'll attempt to post a picture but there will be some censoring.

It's possible that RW had planned out this breaking strategy in advance. I don't know how much or little some people talked strategy with their partners, but they might have asked if this was a rule and saw the benefit. When they talk about Yos they clearly make it known they are not on his side.

Ortohoops, is there anything else you could add? Those posts don't look indicative of town or scum. It's odd that you would place RW into a second scumgroup but I guess at the time you didn't think scum would bus.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Ortohoops-scum would have had to do the high risk-high reward of bussing Yos early and hard; RW-scum would have had the foresight to plan an accurate fake conversation. I guess I have to throw them out the window and go with my reads; RW looked suspicious in my re-read so I'm sticking with him.

[ortolan]

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Ortohoops-scum would have had to do the high risk-high reward of bussing Yos early and hard; RW-scum would have had the foresight to plan an accurate fake conversation. I guess I have to throw them out the window and go with my reads; RW looked suspicious in my re-read so I'm sticking with him.

Yay that means I can vote you with impunity

[J-Scope]

You've already decided have you?

Can someone explain why nyballs was killed? I knew we all said we wouldn't lynch Orto or nyballs, but all this time I thought Orto was more town. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a strategy or something.

[J-Scope]

The top shows when and how I told him about the QT i created.

The censored stuff is beta talk. I stopped using the QT because K-Scope didn't keep his promise of getting back into the game after he responded to that PM on the bottom.

I'm sticking with my read.

Vote: Raging Wishbone

[J-Scope]

unvote

on second thought I'll see what RW thinks about orto's private communications.

[Raging Wishbone]

Ok, a few thoughts...

I realise this doesn't prove much and potentially makes us look scummy because it has us speculating about a second mafia, which could well imply we are in the first mafia

The whited out stuff included references to beta.

@Hoops I have two BIG problems with your daytalk.

1. On the top of you page it says Admin tools. Please notice the difference between the top of my quick topics page. I can not change anything like the way the page is numbered.



2. The BIGGEST problem - you have posts number going down!

1
2
3
4
5

In quick topic numbers always go up unless they have been manipulated.

5
4
3
2
1

Look at my quick topic and look at JScopes. Look at examples everywhere quicktopic is posted.





I also am still having a problem with the semantics of our conversation of ethics and you winning as scum. You wrote...

We cannot win as scum in this game, but that is not because of an ethical issue

It was a yes or no question, with your statement. You could reply when the game is over, "I can't win is scum, but my team can. or the reason is I can not win is becuase it is not ethically wrong.... I don't know why you did not just write, I am not scum?

@J-scope - Please don't do this. Let everyone left take a look so we can come to a consensus. I'm not sure when RR will be on next, but lets hear his thoughts first.

The top shows when and how I told him about the QT i created.

The censored stuff is beta talk. I stopped using the QT because K-Scope didn't keep his promise of getting back into the game after he responded to that PM on the bottom.

I'm sticking with my read.

Vote: Raging Wishbone

unvote

on second thought I'll see what RW thinks about orto's private communications.

Also, I don't like the fact you twisted the truth about not having any daytalk here. You wrote you had nothing to show, but you do have something to show which may be extremely helpfull considering the way Ortohoops numbered his posts in daytalk.

There is nothing I can show because I haven't been playing with my partner (Kaleidoscope). I tried to exchange PM's and he had replied that he was sorry but couldn't keep up with the game.

Post 37 was the only post he made under "J-Scope". The rest was all me, Jahudo.

He had a few posts that he made on his own account but those were to say he wasn't reading, so I've just gone ahead and played solo.

Also, you asked the other day J-Scope....

What about Hoops? Has she been in recently?

It does not seem like Hoops has been playing recently. It seems like it has all been Orto. He has been playing in a game at the same time as this. He was God Father and that game just ended, here is the link...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

Bottom line, I was really leaning towards a JScope lynch however I am no longer sure. The most daming thing on Hoops was the way his daytalk is numbered. I am going to read his recent game as a GodFather. Anyone else got a meta on him? We need to make a choice by tomorrow evening.

@RR - Please let me know what you think?

[Raging Wishbone]

@Hoops - another question - on the right side of the page where you can edit or delete. There is no edit or delete function next to post number#2. On my quicktopics page, edit and delete is only available for the last post written. I can't edit RR's posts or any of my previous posts.

Reading Otro as scum right now, will be back later. I am sure RR will check in sometime soon today too.....

[Jahudo]

Also, I don't like the fact you twisted the truth about not having any daytalk here. You wrote you had nothing to show, but you do have something to show which may be extremely helpfull considering the way Ortohoops numbered his posts in daytalk.

I should have been clearer what I meant. I meant to say I had nothing to show of a conversation between me and K-Scope, because I haven't been playing with my partner.

I didn't think what I had was comparable to conversations where two people were discussing topics together.

[Raging Wishbone]

It's Ortohoops guys. Please take a look at all of these daytalk threads from Lovers Multiball...

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... start=2575

Please go to

post#2593

and click on each of these links to quicktopics...

----

Mafia
Werewolves
ThAdmiral & Xtoxm/DarlaBlueEyes
DrippingGoofball/Spacecase/OpposedForce/starrie & Darox/Raffles/wolframnhart
Crazy & Knight of Cydonia/farside22
Waltwishbone & Raging Rabbit
charter & Cephrir
Adel/Ennui2778 & Toaster Strudel/pwnz
Harvey Pew & ace1217cerebus3
Alabaska J & kloud1516/dybeck

------

EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....

Please take a look at these posts again, side by side...





...and



Also reading through Ortolans game as Godfather here,

http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 53&start=0

It just reads to me as the same way he has approached this game. He flew under the radar, like he was "spoon feeding us cough sryup and yet told us it was candy." Like a "Dentists saying a shot of novocaine won't hurt", lol...

@RR - You were in that game with him, what is your "scum"Orto read?

This is how I feel would love to hear opinions...

[Raging Wishbone]

Also...

@RR also remember this is how we caught Sekinji/Neko - they changed the order of their posts when they paraphrased their daytalk...





Compared to this...



Another THING, why was Hoops not obv kill by scum (Jscope, NYBalls, and us) all had Hoops pegged as town. Why would scum NOT eliminate Hops OBVTOWn at that point?

Why keep us and Jscope in the game over NYBalls? Maybe becuase NYballs wrote he was undecided, perhaps because of the exchange RR and Jscope had yesterday. Both of them indicated or at least implied they would vote for each other... All scum had to do was sit back and wait for one of team to vote for the other.

[J-Scope]

EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....

We should see if Ortohoops can explain it.

I think a big issue with their QT is that posts 1-5 don't distinguish what they are or what they have been looking for. Anyone could speculate if there is a second mafia if they didn't read the rules.

Their Post 5 by Hoops has a large white box that goes far past her one sentence. There was certainly something there, as there was at least a post 6. Was all of this beta talk?

[Raging Wishbone]

EVERY SINGLE one, the posts are all in reverse order. Look at our and Jscopes posts from this game, the posts are numbered in reverse order!!!

The ONLY daytalk that starts at 1 and goes in a choronological (by dates, post number) order is Ortohoops. I am not going to vote I would like to hear what you Jscope and RR think. I also would like to hear if Ortohoops has a logical explanation for this, but those are my feelings....

We should see if Ortohoops can explain it.

I think a big issue with their QT is that posts 1-5 don't distinguish what they are or what they have been looking for. Anyone could speculate if there is a second mafia if they didn't read the rules.

Their Post 5 by Hoops has a large white box that goes far past her one sentence. There was certainly something there, as there was at least a post 6. Was all of this beta talk?

Agreed Jscope, I would like to read what he writes in response...

Also that is a good point about speculating their was a second mafia team... Check out post four again, he write in one sentance, according to Adel, there is no second mafia team... however he continues in the second paragraph and speculates on a second mafia team?

I am not so concerned with post#5 and the big white blotch as I am with the way he numbered his posts? Did you check out all those links to a non-fabricated quicktopics exhange?

Also, I might not be able to be here tomorrow when we HAVE, HAVE to have our vote in by midnight... We can NOT let the next action period pass without a vote or Town losses.

@RR and Jscope - will you guys both be around tomorrow?

[Jahudo]

Yeah I'll be around.

[Raging Wishbone]

Still re-reading, another question....

We will do it but it won't prove much because we will need to edit two out of seven posts to remove beta-related content.

Actually you edited three out of the 7, not 2 to remove Beta content? or actually according to the way your posts are numbered you edited 7 out of 7, right?

[ortolan]

Sorry RW but I actually think you made a sum total of zero valid points against us in that last post

1) I have no idea what determines the order of posts, I've seen them going both ways before. Sometimes after you post it reverses the order also. It's probably an option but if you're implying it's like that cause that's edited that's quite retarded. Why would I go to the effort of editing (and such scummy content which doesn't prove anything to begin with) only to order them in a way you cannot in the actual quicktopic? ~ I just determined any quicktopic I look at is displayed that way. See below.

2) I dislike how this forced us into a dilemma of potentially compromising the other game

and/or

getting modkilled in this one for referencing the other game, which was the reason for the edited posts.

3) I edited 3 out of 7 posts by whiting them out.

4) The reason you don't have the admin tools is probably because you're not signed in, as it says?????? Do you think I would go to the effort of editing a quicktopic like that perfectly (which I assure you I'm not capable of) and then add an entire admin bar which isn't even there in reality??? ~ Actually I'm pretty sure it's there just because I created the Ortohoops topic.

Can someone explain why nyballs was killed? I knew we all said we wouldn't lynch Orto or nyballs, but all this time I thought Orto was more town. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a strategy or something.

HELLO THIS IS A BLATANT WIFOM ATTEMPT BY SCUM.

RW, because I'm pretty certain J-Scope is scum rather than you, I do hope you'll at

least

pay attention to the fact he was willing to vote you. He changed his mind when he realised I had every intention of voting him and when he thought he could WIFOM you into the choice of lynching me after we posted a scummy looking quicktopic (and after he chose to kill nyb instead of us then made a big song and dance routine about the fact, which is BLATANTLY scummy).

On your point about my scum meta, sorry but that's just blatantly incorrect.

1) Despite what you claim, I

have not

lurked this game

at all

.

2) My scum meta isn't actually to lurk anyway, your sample is a large game which was mountainous, incredibly drawn out and not swingy, with a town ineffective at scum-hunting. There was little motivation to post much beyond drawing attention to oneself. Also even then relative to the other players I was quite active, so this "you lurk as scum" is fiction, and I haven't even been lurking this game. See Hunchback of Notre Dame mini, Suzumiya Haruhi mini, the lovers nightless open or the carbon 14 open or Sushi Mafia to see my scumplay.



That is a game (Mushroom Kingdom 1) I wasn't even in, and the posts are ordered like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason I have admin tools in Ortohoops is just because I created that quicktopic...



Same...

[Raging Wishbone]

Welcome back orto, I have been waiting for you since we went into end game and you went into lurker "doom"...

Sorry RW but I actually think you made a sum total of zero valid points against us in that last post

1) I have no idea what determines the order of posts, I've seen them going both ways before. Sometimes after you post it reverses the order also. It's probably an option but if you're implying it's like that cause that's edited that's quite retarded. Why would I go to the effort of editing (and such scummy content which doesn't prove anything to begin with) only to order them in a way you cannot in the actual quicktopic? ~ I just determined any quicktopic I look at is displayed that way. See below.

I made extremely valid points, some that you should have considered on both side of the table.... I made points against jscope too genius, his answers were spot on, like he has done the whole game!

Sometimes after you post it reverses the order? Did you read Lover Multiball, NONE of those threads have any post that were in reverse order... You imply anything I write is retarded again, I will FUCKING vote you right now and let JScope win if he scum!

[Raging Wishbone]

2) I dislike how this forced us into a dilemma of potentially compromising the other game

and/or

getting modkilled in this one for referencing the other game, which was the reason for the edited posts.

This is a manipulative load of crap, there will be no compromise on both games, modkills or anything else because of anything we all have wrote! We have all been very carefull on what we copy and pasted.

[ortolan]

I was talking about us having to censor stuff relating to the 2nd game

And please actually read my post, all my quicktopics are in that order. Just because you have a different setting on your account to mine does not mean anything was "edited".

I have not been lurking since this phase began? Why would you think that? There is a different day/night cycle in Australia.

[Raging Wishbone]

3) I edited 3 out of 7 posts by whiting them out.

That's not

2

!

4) The reason you don't have the admin tools is probably because you're not signed in, as it says?????? Do you think I would go to the effort of editing a quicktopic like that perfectly (which I assure you I'm not capable of) and then add an entire admin bar which isn't even there in reality??? ~ Actually I'm pretty sure it's there just because I created the Ortohoops topic.

Ok, lol, you can call me a retard here... let me see what happens if I log in.[/quote]

[Raging Wishbone]

I was talking about us having to censor stuff relating to the 2nd game

And please actually read my post, all my quicktopics are in that order. Just because you have a different setting on your account to mine does not mean anything was "edited".

I have not been lurking since this phase began? Why would you think that? There is a different day/night cycle in Australia.

Dude, hang tight... I promise I am reading through them and responding. I can't do a long post right now though, I got to do it in bits and peaces.

[Raging Wishbone]

Can someone explain why nyballs was killed? I knew we all said we wouldn't lynch Orto or nyballs, but all this time I thought Orto was more town. I can't tell if it's supposed to be a strategy or something.

HELLO THIS IS A BLATANT WIFOM ATTEMPT BY SCUM.

NO, it is NOT obvious WIFOM by scum. you were the obvious kill and again I planted teh bread crumb to make sure YOU would not be killed (see I bought into the whole I cant win as scum BS!). I wrote I would post screencaps that would confirm us town with the sole purpose of making scum think twice before killing one of us... I just cant figure out why they chose NYBALLS instead of you or us...

Why did they kill NYBALLS?

RW,

because I'm pretty certain J-Scope is scum rather than you, I do hope you'll at

least

pay attention to the fact he was willing to vote you.

He changed his mind when he realised I had every intention of voting him and when he thought he could WIFOM you into the choice of lynching me after we posted a scummy looking quicktopic (and after he chose to kill nyb instead of us then made a big song and dance routine about the fact, which is BLATANTLY scummy).

Dude, I did the exact same thing with yos/nuwen... I voted them and unvoted them after I re-read... How can you ask me or "place a plea to emotion" that it was WIFOM or scummy that he changed his mind?

[ortolan]

[Raging Wishbone]

On your point about my scum meta, sorry but that's just blatantly incorrect.

1) Despite what you claim, I

have not

lurked this game

at all

.

2) My scum meta isn't actually to lurk anyway, your sample is a large game which was mountainous, incredibly drawn out and not swingy, with a town ineffective at scum-hunting. There was little motivation to post much beyond drawing attention to oneself. Also even then relative to the other players I was quite active, so this "you lurk as scum" is fiction, and I haven't even been lurking this game. See Hunchback of Notre Dame mini, Suzumiya Haruhi mini, the lovers nightless open or the carbon 14 open or Sushi Mafia to see my scumplay.



That is a game (Mushroom Kingdom 1) I wasn't even in, and the posts are ordered like that. Also, I'm pretty sure the reason I have admin tools in Ortohoops is just because I created that quicktopic...



Same...

okay this is a good point, you know I played in War in Heaven right my friend? Where did you get "Nuwens = SCUM" screencaps from quick topic, because I aint even seen them?

You know you are not allowed to talk to your scumpartners once they are dead right......

...also please lets finish are ETHCIS discussion. You NOR your team can win as scum right? Its a yes or no fucking question!