DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Zmd]

JScope, RW was town. There's a good chance scum was on the wagon.

*Looks for final Vote Count*

Votecount as of post 374:

Raging Wishbone

:

5

:Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope, Zmd, nyballosulgniirkps, Ojando
Zmd:

2

:Frog Dodging, Ortohoops,
J-Scope:

1

:Raging Wishbone


not voting:

1

:PoketheAlpaca,

JScope and ny fit as scum here.

PtA, why no vote?

I like the analysis of the lurking, particularly as regards to nyballs. They're very experienced players and it's unlikely scum would want to kill without their input.

A quick search will reveal that I was present and accounted for on the site during both of those two intervals, and on several occasions. My partner(springlullaby), however, was not... As long as one of us was, though, I think that renders the argument null.

How does that refute the point? If FD is right, wouldn't you want Spring's input before killing?

Town Lean:
Frog Dodging

Town:
PoketheAlpaca
Zmd

In light of the two serial killer flips, why do you only put Frog Dodging in the "Town Lean" category?

Because it's my read on them, but less so than PtA or obviously myself.

JScope is scum with ny.

Fuck. What gave us away?

Nice.

@ZMD,

some of your defense to the case on you yesterday was meta information. I thought you said something about Zazie always doing a giant catch up post whenever she comes back into a game. You've been talking to her it would appear and yet she hasn't done any of that.

Yeah, Zazie usually makes like 50 short posts to catch up on games. I think this hydra's gonna be 95% Kmd though if not 100%. Of course I'd love to see Zazie in this game, but that probably won't happen.

Also you said you don't play like this as scum. Something to extent of you believe you are better or more confident in pushing your suspicions as scum. So you are better at pushing cases on people when you already know the outcome and its effect on your faction. You have not be giving any real big or well thought out cases on other players. You aren't pushing but at the same time you don't really seem to be talking about or questioning your reads in the game that much. You mention what you read but you really don't go into detail why.

This is because I'm a gut player. I make cases when I want to convince people, not when I want to figure things out. I'm not certain enough to be trying to convince anyone of anything. And my town reads (you and FD) are much stronger than my scum reads.

Basically there isn't a great way for us to truly tell how certain you are of your cases without you talking about them. There is no way you can assert you are less or more confident, less or more scum, without reason. Either I am misunderstanding your defence or there seems to be a hole in it. I also rather dislike the idea of a defence based around "Oh I wouldn't do this as scum". You have not shown us any links or proof of that point and there is no way we can tell you aren't acting this way to specifically use your meta to your advantage.

Most of the people here have played with me and can use that meta. My computer is too slow to go get links all over the place. If you want an example of something specific though, I don't mind taking the time to find it.

Also I like I said before that definatly seemed like a soft claim to me.

It was. I wanted scum to pick it up.

[J-Scope]

JScope, RW was town. There's a good chance scum was on the wagon.

But not you right?

ZMD is scummy looking, but I think Zaphod is just plain scum.

Vote: Zaphod

[Adel]

Votecount as of post 426:

Zmd:

2

:Ortohoops, Frog Dodging,
J-Scope:

1

:Zmd,
Zaphod Beeblebrox:

1

:J-Scope,

not voting:

4

:nyballosulgniirkps, Ojando, PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox,

while 8 players are alive, 5 votes will lynch

Countdown Timer to Deadline

[Ojando]

@Adel

: I think you missed nyball's vote to Zmd.

Btw, my no claim was an attempt to draw a scum kill before.

I'm not buying that. It was a soft fakeclaim. Otherwise, wou would in fact have been killed for it.

I don't like either of these thoughts.
By saying you might be a powerrole and if it's that's the case, you don't have any useful information yet, I feel you would be playing really suboptimally were you actually a town powerrole. Someone for whom action phases(time)=information would heavily benefit from really fighting to survive and actually having obtained some tangible information to give their team if they were lynched/cofirmed later. A powerrole wouldn't softclaim early and waver their handkerchief to scum. Scum would have to be daft to kill Zmd, were he actually town under suspicion. And a fake softclaim I could see as somewhat scumvenient.
Zmd, do you have link to the other game you did this in?

Then Zazie catches up at some point?

Not really. I talked to her on AIM and mentioned how I thought RW said something, but couldn't find it and she found it for me

Ok, but

You're misreading what she said. I did the same thing the first time I read it. She meant that you originally gave me (Kmd) the credit with the pronoun "he",

but it was strictly her catch

.

[Adel]

ITT I fail at votecounts.

Votecount as of post 426:

Zmd:

3

:Ortohoops, Frog Dodging, nyballosulgniirkps
J-Scope:

1

:Zmd,
Zaphod Beeblebrox:

1

:J-Scope,

not voting:

3

:Ojando, PoketheAlpaca, Zaphod Beeblebrox,

while 8 players are alive, 5 votes will lynch

Countdown Timer to Deadline

[Ortohoops]

hasn't really been refuted or acknowledged by them since I made the case

What part haven't we replied to? Yes we agreed with what SWSWC said early in the game, good catch. But do you have anything ultimately more substantial to your case than "well you might have been subtly trying to push the town in the same direction?" which is totally unprovable. I believe I've responded to all your points in previous posts.

About RW: I didn't think he was scum until he claimed doctor- at that point his lynch was perfectly justified because his claimed actions made no sense as a town doctor. I'm not sure of the timing of the votes but I would only really consider those made before that claim potentially scummy.

I did speak with tajo yesterday via pm about his earlier comment. I asked him what he didn't like about the back and forth between ZMD and Zaphod. He told me he felt that part of it was coming accross as though it was forced. He said he'd try to outline his thoughts to me later when he got out of the office. I am yet to here back from him since so I guess he'll show me and or the rest of you guys what he means soon enough.

According to that logic he thinks they're both scum attempting a contrived bus (which makes little sense to me at this stage of the game when they could endgame with two mislynches). So why isn't he considering a vote on one or the other? (I recommend Zmd).

Zaphod am I right in thinking 397 was facetious, as asked in 399? Do you plan on voting Zmd in the near future?

Mod: I think Zmd has three votes- me Frog and nyb

[Zmd]

Ojando, here is the link. I don't know if it will let you view the page without buying an account or not, but if it does, I think clicking my name in the OP will show my post history. I was almost lynched 2 of the first 3 days and on Day 4 tried my refuse to claim Gambit. After that, I softclaimed a power role. Then I flat out said I was a power role. After being asked (or told XD) to claim about 5 more times, I finally said I was a vanilla. You'll see that I eventually was lynched and did flip vanilla.

About the RW "catch". Zazie had not been looking at the game at all. I mentioned the game on AIM. Something along the lines of "RW is obvscum in Double Head. They claimed doc, but something they said about FD doesn't match that." Zazie looked at the game and found that post. I didn't want to take credit for a catch that wasn't mine, so Zazie posted.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Zmd you're pulling at my heartstrings and now I think you're town again.

Who's the scum?

[Zmd]

If you're town, then it's JScope and ny.

[Frog Dodging]

Ok, I have to admit I'm struggling a little in this game at the moment. This is my attempt to actually make the game interesting again: I get the feeling we're suffering from serious drift. Also since I will be gone until next monday and my partner is not contributing I felt I'd better end on a high.

First off, DGB: I've been through why I suspect ZMD multiple times in this thread. It's been one of the main themes of my discourse. There's no reason I should have to reiterate everything just for my vote post, that makes no sense. ZMD should have been lynched yesterday and only RW's extreme stupidity saved them

I’m not very gung-ho about a ZMD lynch. He brought up a valid point against RW when it already looked like RW was going to be lynched, which tells me ZMD was trying to make the best choice and not just save his skin in that instance. I still don’t understand why RW pushed FD suspicion but that’s discussion for post-game.

No, actually, I completely disagree here. Scum who want to hop on a wagon are often reluctant to say "Yeah, I agree with x" for the simple reason that it looks bad. If they can come up with a plausible sounding excuse to wagon, then that's much better. Town are less worried, in general, about seeming plausible.

Furthermore, your characterisation of how the lynch went is balls. They brought up the point at a time when it was not certain that RW would be lynched. RW's idiotic actions got him lynched but ZMD pointing out these actions is not a point in their favour.

In other words, I agree with Ojanen.

The reason I originally suspected him, that he focused on secondary discussions and ignored the larger discussions at the time haven’t really continued with the way this game has progressed. He’s been more at the forefront now so maybe the tell is something to do with how he gets into the flow of a game.

This is more relevant.


I don't understand the J-scope hate. Does anyone have any relevant points against him at all or are you all just blowing steam? As for ZB, DGB is hitting my towndar hard, but I have no proof of that.

DGB seems to be honestly looking for scum. JScope seems happy to just ride through the game.

And this is just deranged. J-Scope may be riding through the game but it's not because he's content to do so it's because he's never been under any real pressure. His scumhunting effort, however, has been perfectly fine up to this point. Just because a player has yet to be suspected does not make them any more likely to be scum.

I need to take a closer look at the PTA/Ortohoops argument.

At the moment I just feel like we're rehashing old ground. Probably because yesterday's lynch was an "obvious" one, so we didn't get an extra day's content to analyse, and the wagon itself is not particularly informative. However, nyballs deserves a much closer look. First is a point my partner made in AIM chat:

We have a low level suspicion of nyballs due to his suspicion list - he picked two of the top four suspets and his partner picked the other two, so all in all he's willing to lynch any of them.

And indeed, he's used this position of leverage to first of all justify a leap on Trotsky (non-mafia) and then RW (non-mafia). His case on RW basically boiled down to "stop being stupid about FD" which I'm not convinced is a scumtell (stupidity, I mean) and I don't think should have wound up nyballs quite as much as it did. His reasoning for Trotsky is thin on the floor. Also, I'm not sure what gives them so much confidence in our towniness:

In light of the two serial killer flips, why do you only put Frog Dodging in the "Town Lean" category?

in particular is bizarre. Sure, we're not an SK and that disproves the only serious attack against us this game. But does that somehow make us confirmed town? I don't think so.

There are various other gut things that are hitting me (for example, internal narrative stuff - he is focused on that attack on me quite severely) which I can't say for certain is scummy and am not inclined to push. But I am very suspicious of nyballs at this point.

[populartajo]

Sorry, I had a very busy and alcoholic weekend.

Ill post at night

[Ojando]

I have to admit that I flip-flopped somewhat on my earlier neutral read on nyball after examining their last post.
The post was generally light on content regards to that they post so rarely. The reason they stated for the vote was again the attack Zmd mirrored on FD, earlier detachment is noted as a not-very-telling-in-itself side note. They have never mentioned anything else in their posting history regarding Zmd than the bad attack.

While it's legitimate for you to believe this, I have seen, in other games(from town DGB at least) this apparent outspoken ignorance to what seems obvious occurrences in the game. That's not a point in their favor but rather a lack of a point against. That said, the inconsistency in Zaphod's attacks leave me unsettled. I don't really think their interaction with Trotsky is very telling.

This is extremely vague. There are 2 things presented as nulltells and then inconsistency in attacks is mentioned. A cursory look at ZB's posting history doesn't make me think the meant inconsistency is obvious. What was your specific thought, nyball?

Ojando, here is the link. I don't know if it will let you view the page without buying an account or not, but if it does, I think clicking my name in the OP will show my post history.

For what it's worth, seems like Kmd did do the claim once as town. I could see the move as scumvenient but seems that specific part of the case is a nulltell then.

[J-Scope]

Deadline is coming in about 5 days. I still prefer a Zaphod lynch. I would be okay with a ZMD lynch though.

No, actually, I completely disagree here. Scum who want to hop on a wagon are often reluctant to say "Yeah, I agree with x" for the simple reason that it looks bad. If they can come up with a plausible sounding excuse to wagon, then that's much better. Town are less worried, in general, about seeming plausible.

They were already on the wagon by the time they brought up that point about RW's being suspicious of no SK-kill. They could have tried to float by with just their wagon analysis as a reason, but I thought they did extra research.

But looking again I can see why ZMD was in a good position to remember RW's suspicion of FD not dying, since he adopted that stance too.

I strongly believe FD to be SK because of his confidence in surviving A&B's kill.

So it doesn't look like great research anymore.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

One half of Zaphod will be VLA July 7-14.

[PoketheAlpaca]

PtA, why no vote?

Go back and look I definatly wanted to vote but figured we should wait a while in case there were town roles that needed to send stuff. We had some players that hadn't posted and or were on v/la. So I figured we should wait a bit and we could since deadline wasn't close. I have been wondering if that idea was a bad one or not somewhat and or wondering if the timing of ojando's hammer was wrong or ok. I thought they were the ones who wanted me to wait perhaps only one member of their pair thought we should wait. Either way they haven't done anything real scummy throughout the game so I might be jumping a shadows I guess.

Basically there isn't a great way for us to truly tell how certain you are of your cases without you talking about them. There is no way you can assert you are less or more confident, less or more scum, without reason. Either I am misunderstanding your defence or there seems to be a hole in it. I also rather dislike the idea of a defence based around "Oh I wouldn't do this as scum". You have not shown us any links or proof of that point

and there is no way we can tell you aren't acting this way to specifically use your meta to your advantage.

Most of the people here have played with me and can use that meta.

My computer is too slow to go get links all over the place. If you want an example of something specific though, I don't mind taking the time to find it.

Also I like I said before that definatly seemed like a soft claim to me.

It was. I wanted scum to pick it up.

I'm not buying your last statement.

Zmd is barely under attack. He may be the first wagon of the day. But already he's throwing in the towel, refusing to claim, accepting his lynch,

but soft-claiming a power role in the hope that he'll be spared

without risk of being counterclaimed, or being accountable. And we are warned we won't get more at L-1 with everyone salivating to hammer. That's scumtalk.

Also, this is gonna piss some people off, but if I get near a lynch, I won't claim. Enough people see me as scummy that I can accept my own lynch instead of being lynched later when we have less mislynches availible to us. And if I were to survive the lynch, I have the scum WIFOMing over my role and trying to decide if they need to worry about me or not. All I am going to say is that

if I am a power role, I have no valuable information to share yet.

That's as close to a claim as I am getting even if I am at L-1 with everyone else threatening to hammer. Take it how you will, but that's what I am doing and I'm set on that.

By saying 'yet' he is infering he could have some later which would be a soft claim and a way to bargin or ask to be spared later.

Can you give me a contrary reason to why you included the yet? Also you directly said you would not claim close to lynch and it appears you indeed have claimed while you were at L-3 too. Why the change of plans there?

_________________

hasn't really been refuted or acknowledged by them since I made the case

What part haven't we replied to? Yes we agreed with what SWSWC said early in the game, good catch. But do you have anything ultimately more substantial to your case than "well you might have been subtly trying to push the town in the same direction?" which is totally unprovable. I believe I've responded to all your points in previous posts.

I'm not trying to say you might have been subtly trying to push the town together while in tandem on the same wagon. I believe that was yosariwen's argument. I'm trying to say there is reason to believe you are scum based on how SWSWC spoke of you. I do my best scum hunting when I am searching for connections between players and I believe there could be one between the two of you.

About RW: I didn't think he was scum until he claimed doctor- at that point his lynch was perfectly justified because his claimed actions made no sense as a town doctor. I'm not sure of the timing of the votes but I would only really consider those made before that claim potentially scummy.

I'll agree that voting RW for that claim was valid reasoning. I will not dispute that. As far as the votes on RW before that claim being potentially scummy I'm pretty sure Zaphod, j-scope, and nyball were all going after RW long before the day started so its not like they voted without reason at that moment. If you disagree or think I may have missed something then please object. Still I was trying to see if you had gained any other suspects from the trotskys wagon itself. You seemed to want to look at the entire wagon for suspects and ended up only coming up with one.

I did speak with tajo yesterday via pm about his earlier comment. I asked him what he didn't like about the back and forth between ZMD and Zaphod. He told me he felt that part of it was coming accross as though it was forced. He said he'd try to outline his thoughts to me later when he got out of the office. I am yet to here back from him since so I guess he'll show me and or the rest of you guys what he means soon enough.

According to that logic he thinks they're both scum attempting a contrived bus (which makes little sense to me at this stage of the game when they could endgame with two mislynches). So why isn't he considering a vote on one or the other? (I recommend Zmd).

I'm still waiting on Tajo to fill me in. If I had to guess I'd assume his idea has something to do with Zaphod calling ZMD town and then going after ZMD when ZMD had recieved some votes. Or it could involve how ZMD has said zaphod was his main suspect and then he votes J-scope instead. Basically I find myself agreeing with frogdodge

DGB seems to be honestly looking for scum. JScope seems happy to just ride through the game.

And this is just deranged. J-Scope may be riding through the game but it's not because he's content to do so it's because he's never been under any real pressure. His scumhunting effort, however, has been perfectly fine up to this point. Just because a player has yet to be suspected does not make them any more likely to be scum.

Waiting to hear Tajo's idea is the only reason I'm not voting somebody right now. I'd like to hear it to decide if ZMD or Zaphod is a better lynch than ortohoops

_________________

One half of Zaphod will be VLA July 7-14.

Am I correct in assuming this to be the DGB half?


I think I'm going to try to get some time to better analyze nyball. I haven't really been discussing or looking into their play too much and i'd like to see if I can understand what everybody is talking about. IIRC they jumped onto the trotsky wagon as the forth vote when nyball was already the forth vote on RW during that day. I believe a reason they cited was thinking the trotsky wagon had a better chance of making it to a lynch. They were the 4th vote on each wagon so I think I'd like to look more into why they jumped. I'd like to go back and see how they looked at RW in comparison to Trotsky. I think this may be a good avenue to look into in terms of finding scum on either wagon.

[Zmd]

It was. I wanted scum to pick it up.

I'm not buying your last statement.

k, let's play this WIFOM game then. Why do you think I softclaimed while refusing to claim, just to come back and claim vanilla? How would that benefit me as scum. Why not just claim a power role?

Can you give me a contrary reason to why you included the yet? Also you directly said you would not claim close to lynch and it appears you indeed have claimed while you were at L-3 too. Why the change of plans there?

The "yet" implied that I may be a power role who can get useful info later. But scum weren't going to worry about it because I'm such a likely lynch.

I changed my mind because the Gambit failed so hard on SA when I tried it.

[J-Scope]

Where's that tajo post we were promised? Moar alpaca please

Also I want to know who the non-voters would vote for.

And nyballs needs to show some life before this day is over. (Hint: this day is almost over)

[populartajo]

Lets look at this:

Raging Wishbone: 5 :Zaphod Beeblebrox, J-Scope, Zmd, nyballosulgniirkps, Ojando

Pretty sure there has to be scum here. RW was a good wagon to be into.

The first post of the day is from Zaphod.

That's a disappointment. I still want to lynch Kmd then. The only reason why I laid off was because I was so sure RW was scum, I couldn't imagine Zmd (as his buddy) bus so hard. Now, that consideration is gone.

Second one is from Zmd.

Having written that, I am not sure he is doing it because he is scum or if he did it to keep from being lynched himself.

Neither. We thought you were scum..

Regardless, the subsequent discussion between Zaphod and ZMD contain scum. It is one or the other and I am certain their partner is J-Scope now.

Zaphod and JScope both dropped the "nice catch", so I can agree that one of them is likely scum. JScope clearly wanted you lynched anyway, so I'd lean Zaphod.

Basically these posts feel exactly the same. First the "oh, I was so sure RW was scum". Second, the attack against the other. It feels planned, like preparing for a scenario where one of them has to be the lynch of the day and the other has to survive.

The following out of place comments were the one that caught my attention.

But, couldn't YOU be scum, Zmd?

Not according to my Role PM. Can you honestly say the same?

Does anybody else feel the bad vibe in this relationship?

Not according to my Role PM. Can you honestly say the same?

According to our role PM we can't be scum.
Wow, that was useful.

Wow, that was useful.

Sure was. Zmd is confirmed town.

WTF? What exactly changed your mind here?

Kmd's top suspects: Zaphod, JScope, ny. Could also see Ojando/Otohoops, but don't really have much on either.

More Zaphod hate. And a lot of suspects.

It took forever for the scum kill to go through. I'm interested in two players that lurked hard.

Yep, Zaphod. At this point Im expecting you to analyse voting patters. Not analyse lurkers.

Zaphod, by suspecting lurkers just because of the amount of time it took for a kill, you are saying that ALL THREE scum are lurking. That would effectively clear JScope, you, and myself. I'm not at all comfortable clearing you and JScope just yet.

Dont like the yet.

ZMD, you and I are town.
Let's decide who gets lynched.
Look the scum is lurking again.

Unreasonable change of heart, more non optymal lurkerhunting. Yep, this is not the usual DGB.

why is Zmd town Zaphod especially in light of RW's flip?

He's not lurking. I like that in Zmd.

So this is the only reason?

Zaphod, if you are truly town, it's likely that JScope is scum.

So, your suspicions of Zaphod just dissapared because Zaphod just said that she likes you are not lurking or am I missing something here?.

Ok, here's an idea. DGB know that I'd never put one of these up by my own choice if I were scum and she were in the game because it screwed us over in Medeival. (Also gives my opinions for later use after I'm lynched)

What about if she is scum with you, KMD?

TO restate.
I believe that Zmd is scum for throwing a false track (his scum list) which he probably designed to be especially misleading since he got caught by it in Medieval Mafia.
Another thing he did in that game was to participate in a full-scumteam Day 1 bus'ing of zwet. He specifically said that the zwet wagon was scum-driven (that's his attempt as scum to WIFOM the town).
I perceive another similar attempt to WIFOM us, this time, by providing a scumlist.
I am as certain as could be that Zmd is scum.
He must die.
Whoever is willing to put him at L-1, I will hammer.

Look, another change of heart. What number are we? 3?

For what it's worth,
Vote JScope
DGB seems to be honestly looking for scum. JScope seems happy to just ride through the game.

Im starting to get the feeling that Zaphod and Zmd are starting to throw wifom all over the place and forcing a relationship in the idea that if some flips scum, as I suspect, the other will not be suspected for the obviousness of the link.

Zmd you're pulling at my heartstrings and now I think you're town again.
Who's the scum?

Ill do you a favor, Zaphod. I will put Zmd at L-1 and make you decide.

[PoketheAlpaca]

Here:

Vote : Zmd.

[nyballosulgniirkps]

I like the analysis of the lurking, particularly as regards to nyballs. They're very experienced players and it's unlikely scum would want to kill without their input.

A quick search will reveal that I was present and accounted for on the site during both of those two intervals, and on several occasions. My partner(springlullaby), however, was not... As long as one of us was, though, I think that renders the argument null.

How does that refute the point? If FD is right, wouldn't you want Spring's input before killing?

I think the point they raised had more to do with the absense of the input of the entire account rather than one head. And no, if I was scum, I wouldn't wait, because Springlullaby has been busy most of the time this game has been running, and our communication has been nearly nonexistent.

In light of the two serial killer flips, why do you only put Frog Dodging in the "Town Lean" category?

in particular is bizarre. Sure, we're not an SK and that disproves the only serious attack against us this game. But does that somehow make us confirmed town? I don't think so.

Bah, you're right. I'm an idiot. I got so wrapped up in arguing against the serial killer argument that I guess I mixed that up with scum in general.

While it's legitimate for you to believe this, I have seen, in other games(from town DGB at least) this apparent outspoken ignorance to what seems obvious occurrences in the game. That's not a point in their favor but rather a lack of a point against. That said, the inconsistency in Zaphod's attacks leave me unsettled. I don't really think their interaction with Trotsky is very telling.

This is extremely vague. There are 2 things presented as nulltells and then inconsistency in attacks is mentioned. A cursory look at ZB's posting history doesn't make me think the meant inconsistency is obvious. What was your specific thought, nyball?

I'm not sure what is vague, here. I was in a game with DGB a few months ago where she consistently forgot that certain players were in the game and missed kill scenes. I found it scummy in that game but she was town, so I feel it's worth mentioning that I don't find it particularly scummy to see it in this game.

That's your nulltell.

What I dislike is the inconsistency. In particular I am referring to her rapid back and forth stance on Zmd.

[J-Scope]

Tajo, are you saying that stuff points to a ZMD - Zaphod scumpair? Is there one particular reason why you voted ZMD over Zaphod?

You acknowledge that he's now at L-1. It'd be good to hear a response from both ZMD and Zaphod while I prepare the =====[]

[Ojando]

I disagree with Tajo about the Zmd+Zaphod scumpair being particularly likely. It would be just easier and more convincing to full out bus if they are the remaining scum, I doubt Zaphod's flip flops really are designed to convince anyone of Zmd's innocence and Zaphod has a decent amount of anti-Zmd initiative history. Also, I think Tajo's sarcasm detector fails on the "WTF?etc." part.

@nyball: With the vagueness I meant mostly the unspecified phrasing of inconsistent attacks. At this point it's obvious Zaphod has a bunch of turnarounds with Zmd, before you're statement I thought she hadn't done that yet but now I notice I was wrong; the first change of opinion had happened.
I guess I get bad vibes when people express a specific game event in very general, unpinned terms of scumminess. "Zaphod's change of mind regarding Zmd leaves me unsettled " is said in unspecified broad plural as "The inconsistency in Zaphod's attacks leave me unsettled".

Ugh. More in a bit, I'm being kicked out from the computer.

[populartajo]

Tajo, are you saying that stuff points to a ZMD - Zaphod scumpair? Is there one particular reason why you voted ZMD over Zaphod?

You acknowledge that he's now at L-1. It'd be good to hear a response from both ZMD and Zaphod while I prepare the =====[]

Yep, Im pretty sure that there is at least one scum in this Zmd-Zaphod pair, if not both.

I agree that I want to hear Zaphod and Zmd reactions.

[Zmd]

More Zaphod hate. And a lot of suspects.

Ojando and Ortohoops aren't really "suspects" in the same way as JScope and ny. The only things on Zaphod I see as scummy are the earlier exchange with Trotsky and the fact that they were on the RW lynch with a "nice catch" line after Zazie found that terrible post RW made.

Dont like the yet.

Ok..? Worded poorly I guess..?

So, your suspicions of Zaphod just dissapared because Zaphod just said that she likes you are not lurking or am I missing something here?.

No, I think it was actually when DGB was calling me scum that she pinged my towndar.

What about if she is scum with you, KMD?

Oh shit. I didn't consider that. Oh, wait. I already know I'm town. Seriously, bad attack. Why would I factor in that possibility when I'm trying to either convince someone I think is town that I'm town or help them find scum after I die by sharing my opinions?

Also, this is important, so I'm gonna make sure it's seen before the hammer gets dropped:

JSCOPE AND NY ARE SCUM

k, you guys can hammer if you want.

[populartajo]

I disagree with Tajo about the Zmd+Zaphod scumpair being particularly likely. It would be just easier and more convincing to full out bus if they are the remaining scum, I doubt Zaphod's flip flops really are designed to convince anyone of Zmd's innocence and Zaphod has a decent amount of anti-Zmd initiative history. Also, I think Tajo's sarcasm detector fails on the "WTF?etc." part.

You think Zaphod's flip flops are normal? Who do you think is scum?