DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Rule Changes:
1. I will no longer prod or replace players. Nor will I modkill players for inactivity. You are all mature players: it is required by "the spirit of the game" that all players participate and post.
2. Each action phase will correspond with a period of day. Day 3 will equal Action Phase 2, Day 4 will be Action Phase 3, ect.
3. Twilight will last as long as I like, but I will not accept submissions for actions during periods of twilight.
4. Each day will have a deadline. At deadline the largest minority (or "first past the pole" in the event of a tie) will lynch.

Note that this totally lifts the "posting restriction" that the game has been under. Standby for a post explosion!

I really really hate changing rules mid-stream, but this game was teetering between excellence and disaster.

I hope you all enjoy this excellent game!


~~~

Start of Day 3, Action Phase 2

~~~

Votecount:

not voting:

10

:Frog Dodging, J-Scope, nyballosulgniirkps, Ortohoops, Ojando, PoketheAlpaca, Raging Wishbone, Yosariwen, Zaphod Beeblebrox, Zmd

while 10 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

Day 3 deadline: 14 days from this post.

[Saunt Adelaus]

This is the message I sent the scum:

Dear Scum,

The solution to the action phase mechanic I currently favor is to set a 2 week deadlines for each period of day, with the largest minority lynching at deadline, each period of day will equal one action phase.

I will have to amend each PM slightly if I decide to go with this solution. All such changes will be made public, of course, and all roles will be amended at the same time.

Before I start on that, I want to give you a chance to veto.

You have 72 hours to PM me (Adel or Saunt Adelous) "Veto" to use your veto.

I will make this message public by posting it in the game thread if none of the scum veto within 72 hours.

Any suggestions or question you may have are very welcome!

Cheers!
Adel

none of the scum vetoed this plan. I decided not to rewrite any role PM's. The order in which stuff resolves:
1. New day/new action phase (same thing) post by mod -- also the official end of twilight.
2. Action submission for this action phase are accepted.
3. A hammer vote is cast OR deadline falls. (no further new actions are accepted after this time/date) -- Official start of twilight.
4. Pending kills and other actions resolve.
5. Lynch scene

I think this solution is the correct one for preserving the fun of the game, and all of the good & long posts that might make this game especially interesting to other players later.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

w00t

Voting for RW but it's a toss up with Zmd.

vote: RagingWishbone

[J-Scope]

The new rules sound good to me.

Vote: Raging Wishbone

[Yosarian2]

As most of you may already know, I will be V/LA for the beach bash, and will be leaving later this evening.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

DIE SCUMS DIE

Bumpee bump bump

[Frog Dodging]

Thank fucking God. That severly reduces the pressure of each post.

Vote: ZMD

[Ortohoops]

Vote: Zmd

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

w00t!

Zmd vs. RW

Not that it matters, both need to die.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Free from the pressure to put together one huge AMAZING case on RW, I can put up all the stuff I have so far. Yeehaw.

To clarify, are you saying you often review dead players OR is that generally meant in the playstyle context of just joining a game? Can you present a link to a completed game where you have done that sort of thing before?

In the playstyle context of just joining a game/catching up on a lot of stuff midgame that's happened without me (my post in question in this game was much more akin to the former). Here is an excellent example of this; I missed the first few (fairly dense, if I recall - that whole game was pretty dense . . .) pages of a game and reviewed it in that stream-of-consciousness style. I was a Vanilla Townie there. Again, this is my playstyle indicative of null Plum only in my humble opinion.

Zaphod:

Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr Smile.

I did not gloat personally and I did not try to ascribe the catching of the SK to myself or otherwise emphasize my part in it.

The top quote looks awfully like gloating. If you’re saying that you personally didn’t gloat but your other half may have, then I’m not going to accept that as an explanation. What 1 half does reflects on the other half.

I meant to clarify what I meant by that quote. One objectively might take that quote of mine in different ways.

1. I/my hydra buddy caught the SK; excellent job on our part. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis [to continue my amazing scumhunting!]. Grrr Smile.

2. The SK has been caught and lynched and is dead; that's excellent news. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr Smile.

I meant interpretation #2 (noting that the town lynched the SK while I was out). I could see that one might interpret it as #1 (personal gloating, including gloating for the work of a hydra buddy); I tried, and continue to try, to clarify.

Again, I am uncertain why you continued to try to argue that I tried to gush to the the town about how awesome my/DGB's scumhunting/SK-catching skills are in some attempt at scummy manipulation as opposed to merely noting things as I did a reread and noting that A&B-SK had been lynched.

---

Guess what time it is? Yes, it's time I got back into this game &c. - the Trotsky flip helps, as does the fact that I think DGB and I are headed in the same (right) direction: Raging Wishbone. I’ll have to discuss the Zmd situation with her, because I think I see it differently than she does, but I still believe that RW is a more fruitful suspect for now. You see DGB posted what she noticed about the wagons and why she thought that such might indicate RW-scum.

- Questioning J-Scope on what didn't seem to be a very fruitful topic, requesting a screen cap and then denouncing J-Scope for providing the screencap looked like a very ugly tactic to me.

- Early parroting of Ortohoops’ case on Yosariwen (with an added bit of BS, if you’ll pardon me).

Also, some questions for him.

I ain't gonna post a wall of text. It has been stated over and over, but there was something really wrong between Trotsky and Zaphod...one of those two plus jscope is scum.

Trotsky flips SK; now what, in your mind?

^^All this but mostly what DGB said before me: RW looks to be the guy who was 'saved' by the Trotsky lynch.

Why I’m less inclined to vote Zmd

Though on further consideration I agree with my other head that they both need to die

- Kmd is better than this as scum (gah, the WIFOM, I know I know. With his claim of refusal to claim he’s made himself into a liability, and I’m a bit upset about that, yeah.). This also has to do with gut: looks more like Town-Zmd from Alpha than Scum-Kmd I’ve seen . . . in a whole bunch of games. I have reason to believe that as scum, even if his hydra buddy was away from the game he’d be using the scum QT a lot, and that would show (more coherent, less giving up, probably). I’ve

played

with Kmd-scum with daytalk and I don’t think this is what I’m seeing here. Again, this is a minor point which works most from my point of view; objectively it's a bit loaded with WIFOM.

-

"Feh, ZMD's most recent post is sparse and almost purely responsive. Everything about his post is watered down and galvanized only by questions. Even his case and vote are forced in order to refute ShaftedSex."

Actually I’m not sure that Sex Club was attacking Zmd too much, not in a way I can be reasonably sure wasn’t distancing or bussing.

Anyway, this is what I have so far. See y'all soon.

[Zmd]

JScope, it's a combination of the voting analysis and their most recent posts. NY isn't scummy apart from the analysis.

Plum, again, I am FAR from giving up. It's a new strategy I've been trying. Call it a Gambit if you'd like. Basically, I don't think a claim will stop my lynch. So if my lynch

is

stopped, scum are still trying to figure out what my role is and whether or not I'm about to gain info that will win for the town.

Vote Raging Wishbone

. It's me or them. That suits me fine because they are my top suspect anyway.

[Frog Dodging]

I'm gone for the weekend, and my partner hasn't posted for over a month in this thread. So don't expect anything form us until after the weekend.

[J-Scope]

Walt and RR haven't posted in their normal accounts in a month. Are you guys still around for this game though?

spring hasn't been posting for a week but kison is active on his account. Can nyballs tell us where they stand?

Sando and ojanen are active in their regular accounts too. Can ojando give an update on where they stand?

[nyballosulgniirkps]

Vote: Raging Wishbone

Obv.

[Raging Wishbone]

I think this puts me at l1 or l2, so I don't have a problem claiming at this point. First I will address a few questions, some of which have already been answered, however at the pace this game was moving it is easy to forget things....

I think RW misrepresented the initial Yosariwen vote on them by saying this:

It looks to me like RW is trying to undermine Yosariwen’s initial vote on them by making it look like Yosariwen had acknowledged the chats as a justification for voting (which I don’t agree with) along with eventually releasing the chats as an offensive, instead of defensive, play, when it was clear that RW made them release the chats. RW’s conclusion that the situation was “completely scummy” here looks reactive and exaggerated.

I think RW is trying to compare the situation to alpha, where YosNuwen was scum, without evidence to explain why the alpha meta applies.

I really don't see the problem with thinking Yoso was scum and then after having a discussion with them based on their IM chats changing my mind. It was based on Alpha, however I think they reacted quite differently this time around and I am leaning on them being town.

It also seems very early and unprovoked to use emotional words like "FUCKING be crucified", so I feel this could be a deliberate exaggeration to heighten the importance of the case through emotion as a possible motive.

This is not emotional, I find very little within this game that could provoke a response such as you described. It is exaggerated to illustrate the importance of my reply.

@J-Scope - I don't get it? You answered both of these questions yourself correctly(it was based on Alpha and it was exagerrated). Why ask me to elaborate? These are not scum tells.

Secondly, I feel that Raging Wishbone has treated his case on me in a similar manner. RW attacked me for my posting of quicktopic chats here:

This quote paints me in a bad light and does not acknowledge my side of the story that explained why it looked fake. It is misrepresentation to say I posted the QT’s for a reason on my own accord, because the only one that wanted the QT’s was RW himself:

Once again, you answered this question yourself. It should paint you in a bad light as I do not believe your side of the story. I do not understand why K-Scope would post in teh thread without getting your take on the game in quick talk first.

This looks like an attempt to compare scum-alpha-Jscope with beta-Jscope without using any evidence, so I don’t trust the motive they had for bringing this up.

I was comparing "Alpha" and "Beta" J-Scopes. This is a good meta and I think the comparisson of the two games is relevant.

@J-Scope - You may find my comments regarding Sex W/Shaft as a double standard, however I disagree. I find their comments regarding your "townie" alignment musch more proactive then those they made regarding us.

@RW What scumtells do you still think are valid against me? Do you think anything looked scummy before but now you aren’t sure or don’t think is a scumtell?

I think mostly you have become overly defensive. I unvoted because I had a shadow of a doubt, however you seem to want to labor the points against you, so I have no problem elaborating a bit more which is making me reconsider again. As far as other specific points your daytalk and the fact that K-Scope posted in thread but not in qt. Your assocition with Sex W/Shaft. Lastly a meta or rather comparing Beta and Alpha.

Do you think shaft.ed’s post to me was any different than what he said to you?

Yes I do, as I explained above.

Do you know why I talked to myself in my QuickTopic? Or is it just that you know I am capable of faking it so you think the new stuff could very well be fake too? If so, why ask for them?

A bit of both. My biggest concern with your daytalk is that K-Scope id not post before posting in thread. It just seems very unrealistic.

@Why did the argument about QuickTopics reappear as a reason for voting me in post 267 after you unvoted over that same argument in post 257?

Because it is something, along with all of these other points I have a doubt on. I don't like lynching townies and would rather explore other options before voting for you again. I am not close to calling you town, in fact you are still in my top three suspects.

What kind of gambit was it? How much of your play was a gambit?

So were you trying to find scumtells in my reactions? What does this say about the points you uncovered in the first place? I think they were not strong enough to stand on their own because some of it was just double standard and confirmation bias.

I don't know why you need me to answer questions, when you keep figuring things out on your own? I explained my reasons for voting you and unvoting you as well that my unvote does not clear you in my opion.

Where are the jokes and sarcasm? I thought you were always pretty serious about wanting to lynch me.

I have changed my mind, but that is not to say by the time I finish catching up I won't vote you again.

I disagree about my case being OMGUS. I think the methods you used to scumhunt me were scummy and you still have not commented on large parts of them. So we don't have to end our conversation after all!

Your entire post is defending yourself on a case I dropped? Why? It just seems really useless and defensive when you were not in a bad position. It seems like omgus because just about every issue you have made against me stems from something I wrote about you.

Unless I'm mistaken, you haven't really touched on this issue until now. And the last post Zaphod made dipicts you as being possible scum. Show me where you have mentioned this before or explain how DGB is different by yourself or I smell omgus especially since you dropped that remark super fast.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1722465

Actually I have mentioned ti a few times, starting around here....

You guys can start digging our grave once we're dead, and not a minute before, OK?

Since our mortality is on the line here, I feel it prudent to share every last thought I have on this game before our untimely demise. Raging Wishbone is quite inefficient at what they're trying to do. Yosariwen is way more downkey than I would expect. Look at them after our death. Sex club is a tad bit quieter than I would like. PTA and ZMD need to die already, especially PTA. Incamnito is one of the people that the town needs to start striving to act like. For someone saying so much about activity and whatnot, Ortohoops is extremely quiet. Death and Trotsky need to start speaking up. I have also heard absolutely nothing from nyball

Dude are you sure i'm not? j/k, lol... Why are you still alive by the way?

Does this game need a kick in the ass? I'm more than happy to prod people, so long as you specifically request it in the thread.

Yes please prod: zmd, poka, and hoops. Thanks.

Zaphod = Town (free pass)

For a lot of this game I seem to recall you saying you weren't comfortable with us on a gut level. Why the mind change?

Caught the SK; excellent. Now I need to go back for more tells and analysis. Grrr .

Actually it was RR who posted suspicions of you and it'ts me who wants to confirm you town. I kinda just wanted to see how you responded... Can I ask you an ethics question, would you feel comfortable winning as scum after DGB's post?

Regarding Zaphod, I just really found the exchange with Trotsy odd. Last we talked, myself and RR were split on Zaphod, he thinks she's scum, I think shes townie. However the other points people have made make me want to reread her to see if I am mistaken.

rofl, this was your breakthrough case a good ole fashion load of OMGUS... Geee, J-Scope let me humbly apoligize for anything I wrote that implied you were scum (without proof you are scum) or if I hurt your feelings, because you seem so sensitive these days... I also would like to take this opporutunity to thank you FUCKING up a gambit I was playing! meh although the gambit was on you and Orthohoop and YES genius it was based on Alpha...so you are saying I made... what a mistake by basing my opinions on Alpha... rofl, your case is epic fail.

UNVOTE: ZMD

@Zmd - I will give you the benefit of the doubt based on your post.

Ugh.

J-scope posts a pretty good, detailed, and logical reason for his suspicion on Raging Wishbone. And RW's response?

1. Calls J-scope's entire attack "OMGUS" without responding to any points in it.

2. Randomally insults J-scope, with a "I don't know why you're so sensitive" post, which just seems odd considering J-scope's post was much more "logical analyis" then "angry ranting".

3. Claims that somehow J-scope just screwed up some "gambit" he was running. I've seen scum claim "No, it was all a gambit" sooo many times...

I know we're still in twilight, but

Vote:Raging Wishbone.

He so looks like caught scum here.

What can I tell ya... I was rushed, felt like he was answering my questions for me anyway and couldn't be bothered. This was probbly a mistake because I am being forced to claim now. I adressed his issues above, and the only good that might come out of my lynch or an NK will be the wagon that formed based on such a weak case.

I am completely in agreement with Yosariwen about RW's last post. To dismiss a case against you as OMGUS is just lazy. J-scope's case is quite obviously rooted in more than the fact that RW is voting him, so it's not OMGUS. RW, I demand you respond to the points that J-scope made.

It was a little lazy but it was more that I was rushed and RR is VLA for at least another week.

As far as my reads at this point

Scummish
ZMD
JScope
Zaphod

Neutral
NYballs
Ojando
orthohoops

Townish
Yoso
Frog Dodge
Pokealpha

I have read the case against ZMD and although I do not feel it is as strong as J-Scope or Zaphod, I feel he is the best lynch at this point of the game. I don't think we have heard nearly enough from NYBalls and Ojando who seem to be actively lurking and I would like to hear more from Orthohoops.

VOTE: ZMD

Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2. I planted some seeds, such as asking why frogdoge was still alive and I also defended pokealpca because I intended to protect him action phase 2. I was a toss up between him and yoso, however I did not hear back from RR. So pokealpca, you will not be nk'd this action phase. I am undecided on who to protect next action phase, however I am hoping RR will be back and able to catch up in time to help me make the vote.

[Zmd]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

[Raging Wishbone]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

[quote="raging wishbone" Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive. I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

[Raging Wishbone]

Am I wrong in thinking that your claim contradicts your attack on FD?

Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

/quote]

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive. I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

[Zmd]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

[Raging Wishbone]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

Our protection was submitted before the game started. We picked some of the most well know names because we felt that is who scum would target with the nk. I will have to go back and read the exchange, but whether or not it was I or Rr who made that vote doesnt matter because a Doctors protection does not stop a lynch. In otherowrds, we have Poke protected right now, if he does soemthing scummy, I will have no problem voting for him.

[Zmd]

Not even close to addressing my point.

[PoketheAlpaca]

@Ortohoops,

please respond to this:

Freaking huge post wrote:

1) Hoops "fluff posts" weren't fluff in the same way.
2) Hers didn't have the same frequency.

I'll admit there was some level of difference in terms of frequency and what the posts were about but I still saw that as somewhat fluff.

4) It was Hoops that did it, not me.

Ortolan and hoops have the same role and are the same player. This point is mute. You could just talk to your partner about it and see what they may be thinking. Have you spoken with them recently or are you pretty much playing the game all by yourself now, kinda what Jahudo is doing in terms of J-scope?

Re-reading Hoops early posts I think they were a

bit deliberately abrasive

and maybe not well thought-out because of the attacks they could leave us open to. I don't see how they could have a scum agenda behind them though, she is drawing a lot of attention to us by both her comments and by the way she is posting in light of the rules.

Is this in cocern to what could be seen as fluff or is this in regards to how she thought scum might avoid posting fluff at all costs? I'm not sure which of those you perscieve as diliberatly abrasive nor do I understand why you think it was dileberately without a context clarification.

Assuming you are discussing how she thought scum would avoid fluff earlier on, the only scum agenda I could percieve there is that by getting townies to attack in the direction of non-fluff posters constantly, players may feel encouraged to post often as a result to avoid attack. This would length the thread/game and help the scum. It is a bit of a complicated agenda though so if she is town she unlikly considered this as a possibility. The alternative to this possible agenda is that she truly thought A&B was scum for avoiding of fluff and pretty much the entire wagon on A&B didn't see it as that from the cases laid out. This line of thought brings 2 possibilities:

1.

Hooplas suspicions of A&B weren't genuine. Her case was crap opposite of why A&B was attacked. She wanted to attack and get rid of A&B without going against her own already outlined views because of how that may draw suspicion

or 2.

She really didn't think things well through enough as you suggest.
hmm... I guess I can see how B/your defense is a viable answer there then since I believe Tajo was not thinking or paying attention to either game when he made identical posts in both games in the same timeframes as I ponted out earlier.

Check the time stamp and words of these posts from our game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 63#1642063
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 08#1645208
and compare them to these posts from the alpha game
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 65#1642065
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 06#1645206
Tajo was clearly under the wrong impression that these games were the same. He has to treat and learn from both of them and he should now have learned from these mistakes with recent postings not being of the same manner.

So I guess I will accept your defense for ONLY that part.

_________________

3) You were actually attacking other people strongly for doing it while doing it yourself.

Rewind, you are the one I am accusing of doing this. You attacked me first for the fluff and I responded saying that you had done a type of fluff aswell and thus you were not blameless.

My response to this
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... 95#1669295
I wasn't attacking ortohoops for lack of content but attacking them primarily for their logic.

They said our wagon was oportunistic and that scum wouldn't post fluff; they helped lynch A&B with that attitude. They said my wagon was originally oportunistic and scum would avoid fluff; now they are on our wagon and say scum would do fluff. They said we fluff posted; Hoops did some too.

Basically they are going back on some key points of their logic as well as commiting things they once deemed wrong. I see that as hypocracy.

odd, I'm just now realizing that the given link there was something said by SWSWC and I said that in response to how they percieved I was attacking you.

PtA attacking Ortohoops for lack of content was amusing. Pot meet kettle.

<snip>

PtA is self contradicting with his long post saying they think Zaphod is scum, rather strongly, but landing a vote elsewhere. Also interesting that PtA's attacking Ortohoops for being hypocritical is itself hypocritical. Would you mind self voting?

What is said here by SWSC is an attack of us(PtA) on the grounds of our ortohoops suspicions. This can be consider an awkward response or bad defense of ortohoops in the terms of how SWSWC later looked at ortohoops in that same post.

Not really liking Orto's defense that "my hydra partner did it!" in regards to the three fluff posts PtA pointed out.

You and your hydra are the same player in this game. That's a BS defense. I do agree however that some of those "fluff posts" were direct replies to questions asked by other players.

Because they actually give credit to some of our(PtA's) suspicions on Ortohoops. I am greatly considering the possibility you(ortohoops) are scum with SWSWC because they seemed to defend you from some logic and then imediatly attack you with it. I think they may have been confused on whether to defend or distance from their scum buddy there pending how other players may view the case on you. By being in between like that they could defend or bus you without reprecussion as they would have the option to be on either side.

The same Back and forth attitude of SWSWC not knowing how to act around orto scum can also be seen here:

SWSWC's view of you here:

Orto

Your back and forth with Yos is stifling game conversation. While I feel your points are valid, you're sidetracking discussion which is antitown. I also don't like that you feel the need to reply to every single point against you. Do you still find PtA most likely scum? If so is Yos a likely buddy or a misguided townie?

Orto scummy here.

SWSSC agress that he has valid points but also he is called antitown.

The last two questions feel fabricated.

doesn't sit well we me or tajo

That's great. Why?

All that I've said above is pretty much the why. SWSWC was fairly back and forth with their view of you. One moment they agree and defend you, the next they attack you and call you antitown. Its practically wishy-washy and I can see SWSWC-scum being that way about a possible scum buddy like you.

<snip>

I disagree with the conclusion because I disagree with the premise that "there wasn't much of a case". FYI I have played several games with rofl as town previously- Lynch All Lurkers, Hunchback of Notre Dame and RealTime Mafia - in all he was extremely aggressive. I also saw a bit of a game where he was an SK which he got nominated for a scummy for, perhaps won it but I can't recall how he played that game. Anyways, in this and Alpha he played totally different (granted it's only one half of the hydra); which is why he got vigged in that and lynched in this. I have also seen him comment that he finds it harder to play as scum. Essentially it's very hard to fake such aggressiveness which is a stalwart of his town play, when scum. I don't actually think you're scummy for pushing this argument because it's counterintuitive anyway (and it's the same thing PTA attacked you for on A&B) and you're drawing attention to yourself by brazenly saying "I wish I was on this wagon, I did have a gut read on rofl but the people who did vote him are opportunistic scum". I do however think a position on the wagon is a null-tell if anything.

What you say here seems confusing to me. Are you saying you believe my case on Zaphod trying to come off like everyone else is weak? That you think Plum was not faking or gloating?

I have seen Roflcopter be fairly agressive as town many times. And I actually read the game where he was SK and nommed for a scummy. He did not win a scummy but I did support his nomination. He was actually fairly agressive as SK in that game.
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8269
I would guess because he still needed to find and eliminate the other scum group. Why such agression did not carry over to this game where he was also SK, I'm not sure. Other than that game and Alpha/Beta, I have not seen Rofl-scum. I voted rofl over his failure to claim and submissive give up additude. I thought he was scum with SWSWC and that he had given up so I was happy to drop the hammer on that. What do you think of this reasoning? What do you recall of the main reasoning given by Frog Dodge, nyballs, RW? Basically does anyone other than ZMD come off as scummy to you?

I'm feeling I bit better about plum's analization of A&B now. Only thing that still bothers me a little is the phrase "excellent news". An SK being dead is good for the town but taking the time to say it exclusivly can be a minor scum tell. I say minor mostly because that classic tell is based on the assumption scum would want to fake being happy. Since trotsky as well as A&B were SK's, town and mafia would both be happy about the death of an sk. Her comment there isn't fake but just feels like she is emphasizing it a bit much. Since she was clarifying things perhaps I'm looking too much into it. I'll talk to tajo and get his take and if he thinks its nothing then I won't bring it up again. Zaph has looked alright otherwise as of late.

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

I mentioned I found RW scummy in my more recent posts and I agree that claim is crap with an attack on FD means theres got to be a lie in there. I am up for taking this to L-1 and or hammering. Anyone want to stop me?

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

Um, yeah. RW, explain this.

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

If you knew you protected FD, why did you vote him here with this added on to it?

Sweet catch, Zmd. RW's question dodge is dodgy. If you protected him you sure as hell would have seen why FrogDodge was alive despite A&B's claimed kill and wouldn't have attacked and voted him on suspicion of being a kill-immune SK.

[quote="raging wishbone" Our role is a Doctor, we protected frogdodge round one and pokealpca round 2.

I planted some seeds such as asking why frogdoge was still alive

I never attacked him, I asked why he was still alive.

I also have had doubts on his alignment as the game progressed. We sent our protection in before the game started. Just because I have protected frog and poke does not mean they are town.

The vote sure seemed like an attack; it definitely served as one. Nice try, fail lie, scum.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

DGB at the helm here.

If I ever say: "

why is so and so still alive

" it NEVER, EVER is a hint that I doc-protected this player. It means that I believe the player is scum and I am growing impatient with the speed of the lynch. Especially when it comes accompanied with a vote.

Besides, a Night 0 choice for a player likely to be killed would hardly be FD.

Ortohoops can hammer.

Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat as he is, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.

[Zmd]

Should RW flip scum, then things look a lot brighter for Zmd. Though being on the hot seat as

she

is, Zmd pretty much has no choice but to bus. Oh wait. WIFOM. Never mind.

Fixed. I thought you <3 me, yet you can''t say that it was me who caught them with their vote