Large Normal 92 - Game Over! Scum Win!

[Jebus]

Here's the info:


First off, the starting roles (which match up with the number of the player on the playerlist):

1) Vanilla
2) Vanilla
3) Vanilla
4) Mafia Goon
5) Lyncher
6) Vanilla
7) Doctor
8) Mafia Godfather
9) Paranoid Doctor
10) Town JOAT
11) SK/JOAT
12) Cop
13) Vanilla
14) Tracker
15) Scum-Mason
16) Watcher
17) Vanilla
18) Mason
19) Hate-Club Leader
20) Vigilante
21) Vanilla
22) Vanilla
23) Goon
24) Vanilla
25) Vanilla
26) Mason
27) Vanilla

And the role PM's:

Vanilla:

You are a vanilla townie. You have no special abilities. You are town, and win when all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Mafia Goon:

You are a Mafia Goon. You can talk with your fellow mafia members in the quicktopic. Every factional ability is explained there.

Mafia - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Tjn2m6hthQCy

You win when only your faction remains.

Lyncher:

You are absolutely dead-set on killing RedCoyote, but you want to make him suffer. You win if RedCoyote is lynched on Day Two or later. Should he be night killed or lynched on Day One, you will commit suicide upon the beginning of the next Day phase.

Confirm via PM.

[A comment on this - I put the Lyncher in to help balance out the cult. The lyncher role here is meant to have whoever the cult leader is as their target. The reason for the "after Day 2" was to make it so that the lyncher had some intention of surviving. If the lyncher had completed his/her win condition, s/he would have been removed from the game with the personal win.]

Doctor:

You are a local hospital pediatrician. Each night, you can PM me the name of any player, and they'll be protected from being killed. You are town and win if all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Mafia Godfather:

You are the Mafia Godfather. You can talk with your subordinates in the quicktopic. You are investigation-proof: all investigations come up as innocent. All factional abilities are explained in the quicktopic.

Mafia - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Tjn2m6hthQCy

You win when only your faction remains.

Confirm via PM.

Paranoid Doctor:

You are a Paranoid Doctor. Each night, you target one player to protect, but that player will also be roleblocked. You are town, and win when all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

[Note: This is a jailkeeper, but I tend to call it a paranoid doctor, as that's how I learned the role.]

Town Jack-of-all-Trades:

You are the town wizard. Being a Jack of All Trades, you have a few abilities:
-One Rolecop (you get exact role name)
-One self-flavoured kill (you name the flavour)
-One ambush (you target a player, and kill the first person to target the player you targeted. Not used if no kill is made)
You are town, and win when all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Serial Killer/Jack-of-all-Trades:

You just hate everyone in this town, want to eat their souls and live alone in peace. To help in your goal, you have some abilities:
-Four self-flavoured kills (limit of 1 per phase)
-One three-day poison
-one roleblock

Self flavoured kills are kills in which you write your own flavour for.
The three-day poison takes three night/day cycles to take effect, and this ability cannot be tracked, watched, or blocked.
If an ability is blocked, it is used up.

You win when you are the only player left.

Confirm via PM.

Cop:

You are a local town policeman. Each night, you can PM me to learn the alignment (Town, Scum, 3rd Party) of any player in the game. You are town, and win if all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Tracker:

You are a detective, on the trail of whomever you find suspicious. Each night, you can target a player to see who they target. You are town, and win if all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Scum Mason:

You are a Scum Mason.
The mafia talk in their quicktopic. All factional abilities are explained there.
You and your mason partners can talk in their own quicktopic, as well.

Mafia - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Tjn2m6hthQCy
Masons - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/j2tjNLgQXmdE

You are scum and win with your Mafia faction.

Confirm via PM.

[Note: If a mason asks about whether or not they can trust their mason partners, the response is "there is no reason not to trust them". This was to help make up for the fact that they were the only non-town constant killing faction in the game.]

Watcher:

You are a secret agent, with the protection of the citizens of the city in mind. Each night, you can target one player, and learn who targetted that person during that night. You are town, and win if all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

Mason:

You are a mason. You can talk with your Mason fellows in the quicktopic.
You are town, and win if all threats to the town are gone.

Masons - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/j2tjNLgQXmdE

Confirm via PM.

Hate-Club Leader:

You are the Leader of a cult. This cult is called the Hate-Club. Each night, you may recruit one person to join your cult, but you can only recruit vanilla townies. If you try recruiting anyone else, it will simply fail. Alternatively, you can choose not to recruit, but to kill instead. When members are recruited, they will be directed to the quicktopic to talk at night. Only you can recruit, but the rest of the Hate-Club recruits act as Mafia Goons.

Hate-Club - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Gr3D9xpXyXh

You win when only the Hate-Club remains.

Confirm via PM.

[Note: This group was to act as the second, late starting mafia faction.]

Vigilante:

You are Batman, the Vigilante (and Easter Egg Townie). Each night, you may target one player to kill, but beware: there is a limit on how many kills you can make before the guilt gets to you, and you start to lose it. You are town, and win when all threats to the town are gone.

Confirm via PM.

[Note: Easter-Egg Townie is just another name for a townie. The only difference is my silly addition of a small bit of flavour, just for fun. As for the kill limit, there was none - the point was to make the vigilante be a little more cautious about how s/he was going to use his/her ability.]

Hate-Club Member:

You have been recruited into the Hate-Club cult. You are now loyal to RedCoyote. You may talk at night in your base:

Hate-Club - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Gr3D9xpXyXh

Your win condition has altered - You now win when only your faction (the Hate-Club) remains. Information is in your base - confirm this via PM.

And the QuickTopics:

Mafia - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Tjn2m6hthQCy
Masons - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/j2tjNLgQXmdE
Hate-Club - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Gr3D9xpXyXh

---

Next, the order of actions, and what actions took place:

This last quicktopic is for what actions took place throughout the course of the game. The first part is what actions were sent to me, and the second is what actually happened.
Actions - http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/KGAmQnqHwQr


And the order of actions:
1-SK roleblock
2-Roleblocker/doc combo
3-Doc
4-Tracker
5-Watcher
6-Cop
7-JoaT Rolecop
8-Leader Recruit
9-SK Kill
10-Mob Kill
11-Vig Kill
12-HateClub kill
**Ambush happen to the first action, unless a roleblock to the ambusher comes earlier, in which case the ambush is not used**
**Poison happens no matter what, and cannot be tracked, watched, blocked, etc.**

And the endgame priorities, to avoid joint-victiories:
1) SK
2) Mafia
3) Town
4) Hate-Club



That's about it. Thanks for playing, and I'm terribly sorry this game was littered with replacements.

Any questions, feel free to ask.

[Jebus]

We got a bit lucky, but managing to defeat the scarily over-powered cult was pretty awesome.

Honestly, I was worried that the

town

was overpowered xD

[Battle Mage]

We got a bit lucky, but managing to defeat the scarily over-powered cult was pretty awesome.

Honestly, I was worried that the

town

was overpowered xD

Lmao

BM

[Amished]

Why were you disappointed in me? You didn't say much in our QT to guide me =?

[Battle Mage]

Why were you disappointed in me? You didn't say much in our QT to guide me =?

Hey, after you were a douche to me in the post-game of Poro's game, it's only fair that i return the favour right? *growls*

BM

[Amished]

You gave up on me that game. Hell, you gave up on Poro that game too. I wasn't the only one attacking you for your behavior there.

[Tarhalindur]

Damn it... since when does a protective role actually target zwet? >.<

I consider this win extremely lucky, myself... while Hate Club and Town were strong, Mafia was SERIOUSLY underpowered even with the scum Mason (no good way to shut down Town power roles, only four members... at this power level, Mafia needed at least an additional Goon, possibly an additional Mafioso instead).

I was pretty much hunting Werewolves the entire time I was alive, simply because I thought there HAD to be a full second faction given how weak the Mafia was.

Also, question for Jebus: If I was Town Mason and asked "Are my Mason partners mod-confirmed to be of town alignment?"*, what would have been the response? (If you'd given the response above, I'd have taken that as my partners NOT being mod-confirmed town and claimed that.)

* - THE question you ask immediately when given an ambiguous phrase such as "no reason not to trust your partners" as a Mason, especially for phrases which imply but don't confirm your partners' alignments.

[stark]

Whew..


When BM didn't immediately hammer, I was truly terrified. The most scared I have ever been because of a mafia game.

I had this elaborate theory in which BM was a part of neither the masons nor the mafia, and was in fact a survivor-type role.

But over-all, good game, definitely. I'm glad my ridiculous strategy worked out

@Javert:

That was lots of fun. Let's have a mafia semantics argument again sometime

[hewitt]

haha this game was absolutely ridiculous.

[Javert]

My heart is broken.

It is games like this that make me wonder why I bother to put in as much effort as I do. Marking this game as a loss is like a knife to the heart.

The worst part is that I originally assumed that the Masons were

not

confirmed up until the Masonry said they had explicitly asked the Mod about their status, and then returned to the thread proclaiming that they were all town. Sigh.

I was actually starting to want to lynch stark today because the more I argued with him the more I became convinced he was a Godfather. Not that it would have mattered, apparently.

~~~~~

Quick and dirty commentary for the Mod.

1.)

Never give a Cult killing powers. Why on Earth you did this is completely beyond me. The town should be rewarded for lynching the Cult Leader, not punished.

I hated Cults quite enough before this game, and having come across a killing Cult only makes me hate them even more. I can at least sleep at night knowing that I pretty much lined them up in this game and knocked them down.

2.)

Please do not balance games on the assumption that there will be cross-kills. As is obvious, the lack of cross-kills in this game was hugely detrimental for the Town.

3.)

This was not a Large Normal game. I replaced into this game with the hopes of having

regular

roles; not a "Paranoid Doctor," "Scum Mason," "Lyncher," "Killing Cultist," and the like. This game should have been Large Themed given the large amount of non-traditional roles.

[Amished]

Yeah, I was scared of getting on your bad side too much Jav. If the cult couldn't kill, I think you easily could've gotten rid of the cult and weeded out the mafia (other than BM due to "confirmation"). You played extremely well, don't get too down on yourself.

[Jebus]

Also, question for Jebus: If I was Town Mason and asked "Are my Mason partners mod-confirmed to be of town alignment?"*, what would have been the response? (If you'd given the response above, I'd have taken that as my partners NOT being mod-confirmed town and claimed that.)

* - THE question you ask immediately when given an ambiguous phrase such as "no reason not to trust your partners" as a Mason, especially for phrases which imply but don't confirm your partners' alignments.

If I got the question "Are my Mason partners mod-confirmed to be of town alignment", I would have responded with something like "I don't mod-confirm things like this, but you have no reason to doubt the alignment of your Mason partners."



Really sorry, Javert. Still, I'm pleased with how it played out.

I ended up giving the Cult the killing power after I played it out a bunch of times, where town always won. I gave the Cult killing powers just out of curiosity, and the game became a lot more balanced. Which is where said power was derived.

I take into account everything when I balance games. Cross-kills weren't particularly huge in the balancing of this one.

I don't disagree that this was a lot less normal than most normal games. Personally, I hate normal/vanilla games.

[Jebus]

Also, if Lowell wasn't inactive and had realized that the Shot kill on Night 5 didn't happen because he blocked Battle Mage, he could have easily picked him off as scum/killing role.

Inactivity in general really hurt the town, overall.

[Javert]

Also, if Lowell wasn't inactive and had realized that the Shot kill on Night 5 didn't happen because he blocked Battle Mage, he could have easily picked him off as scum/killing role.

Inactivity in general really hurt the town, overall.

I think the more likely assumption from the Battle Mage blocking -- which I did come to -- was that Battle Mage was the kill target (and hence protected), not that he was the killer.

Inactivity

did

hurt this time but in the end towns only really need activity to lynch: and lynch we did. And we lynched right. We literally only had two lynches on townspeople, and the second of those lynches was almost inescapable because of Battle Mage's status in a LyLo situation.

The fact that this game came as down to the wire as it did is really only a testament to the town's lynching prowess. I honestly don't know how well balanced this game is, because a Cult by definition is nearly impossible to balance since one usually cannot anticipate how large a Cult will become unless you forcefully limit the Cult.

[orangepenguin]

Sorry Javert! I only went "after you" cause the scum were apparently confirmed TOWN, and so I didn't really know what to do. You played very well, so sorry I gave up, but I was sick of playing, and my lynch was inevitable, so I sped things up. With BM "cleared" as town (even though I still felt he was scummy), you were basically scum by process of elimination. But you weren't.

[RedCoyote]

I can't tell you guys how disappointed and frustrated I was with joe for getting me lynched. I wanted so badly to just scream, "I'm the damn leader, joe! Lynch hewitt, for God's sake!"

I had an inkling after my back and forth with Javert that he was just Vanilla, and I was totally prepared to convert him the following night. How the circumstances would have changed! Well done to mafia, and props go out to everyone who stuck it out (ryan, Hewitt, King). Thanks for the game, Mod.

[Javert]

Let us be thankful you were lynched when you were, then. I do not yet know what I will do the day I am converted to a Cult...

[hewitt]

yeah i tried fer as long as i could. til i got nightkilled that is...

[Kmd4390]

Wait, scum thought I was a power role?

[malpascp]

I have been told that there was no way BM to be scum!!!
****

[Battle Mage]

I have been told that there was no way BM to be scum!!!
****

Ironically, this numpty represented the only slither of hope the town had. Ignorance sometimes pays!

BM

@KMD- Yeh! lol

[RedCoyote]

The Cult thought the same, Kmd... or at least I did

http://www.quicktopic.com/43/H/Gr3D9xpXyXh

[Kise]

for the kill limit, there was none - the point was to make the vigilante be a little more cautious about how s/he was going to use his/her ability.

Yeah, as Amished said, I targeted him the same night mafia busted a cap in me. I wish I survived another day because I realized a possible slip when RedCoyote was fakeclaiming his roleblock targets. After flipping hate club, I realized he mentioned targeting joe & stark, which would mean either he recruited them, or was trying to fish them for their roles by counterclaiming him and saying they weren't roleblocked on the nights he mentioned.

Might want to be careful when fakeclaiming targets. If anyone else caught this, joe couldn't been gone a lot sooner.

[EmpTyger]

My heart is broken.

It is games like this that make me wonder why I bother to put in as much effort as I do. Marking this game as a loss is like a knife to the heart.

The worst part is that I originally assumed that the Masons were not confirmed up until the Masonry said they had explicitly asked the Mod about their status, and then returned to the thread proclaiming that they were all town. Sigh.

I'd like to offer you my sympathies, because you are right to feel aggrieved. This should *not* have happened in a Normal game. In fact, during setup approval, I specifically asked Jebus what the answer to that question would be, and he explicitly told me otherwise. Bastard modding is *not* a Normal mechanic, and I'm just as upset as you that not only did it wind up in the game, but that it significantly affected the outcome.

Going forwards, I will say that I will being more stringent in approval, to try to make sure that players' expectations for normal games are maintained.

[Devestation]

I didn't watch the game much after I died. I wish I didn't rolecop Mastin D1, he would've apparently done something useful about the cult.