Mafia #100 - Game Over

[ZazieR]

Why were we killed N1?

[ZazieR]

Hi everyone! I followed the entire game; it was enjoyable to read through. Sometimes there was too much role speculation, but the town played a great game. GG all!

Ditto(, one of you), why'd you kill me N1? Was it the VT-Vanilla Townie thing? I was mad at OP about that. Why'd he point it out?

Can't help you

[GLaDOS]

In the future, I would caution against relying on cross-kills to "balance" a set-up to give town a chance. For every game that happens to balance itself out -- as did this game happened to do -- there are games where all the mafia kills just hit townspeople, such that it effectively becomes a duel of the mafias.

For example, we may have had the following sort of situation (where I even assume the Vigilante does not kill a townsperson):

Day One

: 20 alive, 13 town
Lynch Sicilian Mafia Goon

Night One

: 19 alive, 13 town
Sicilian Mafia kills Vigilante
American Mafia kills Doctor
Vigilante fails to kill American Mafia Godfather

Day Two

: 17 alive, 11 town
Lynch Sicilian Mafia Goon

Night Two

: 16 alive, 11 town
Sicilian Mafia kills Cop
American Mafia kills Watcher

Day Three

: 14 alive, 9 town
Lynch American Mafia Godfather

Night Three

: 13 alive, 9 town
Sicilian Mafia kills Townie
American Mafia kills Townie

Day Four

: 11 alive, 7 town
Lynch American Mafia Role-Blocker

Night Four

: 10 alive, 6 town
Sicilian Mafia kills Townie
American Mafia kills Townie

Day Five

: 8 alive, 4 town
Lynch Sicilian Mafia Godfather

Night Five

: 7 alive, 4 town
Sicilian Mafia kills Townie
American Mafia kills Townie

Day Six

: 5 alive, 3 town, 1 Sicilian Mafia, 1 American Mafia

~

And by Day Six, the town is in pretty bad shape despite lynching scum every single day of the game, and despite the Vigilante making a correct crack at killing a Godfather.

I think every town in a mini normal should be spotted at least two mislynches, and every town in every large normal should be spotted at least two (and preferably three) mislynches. When you have competing scum-groups, towns can play nearly flawlessly during the day and still be torn to shreds. To rebut that towns should do "better at night" is not a real response, because town's power ultimately derives from using the day phase.

That said, this is not meant to a scathing criticism against your set-up in particular, since I think

many

mods erroneously rely on cross-kills to balance a set-up. What tends to happen is townspeople are outed to be town, and as a result, they are then targeted to be killed at night, which drastically decreases cross-killing. This is just something I think more people ought to be aware of and consider when balancing games.

~

I have always been fine with "Traitor" roles, and I in fact think they make for a fun twist on the norm. I am unsure how wise it was, however, to give the Traitor a nightkill should the Traitor's scum group be killed off: in theory, the Traitor should try to sacrifice themselves in order to

keep their mafia group alive

. At another very sophisticated mafia site -- which I will note often only has one scum group -- a lone traitor loses the game, since they are meant to

protect

their mafia, and not simply take their place.

[tubby216]

With respect to the modkill, I had considered modkilling someone (I don't remember whether it was tubby or not) before I actually did it. It was a scary decision, but I think it made a somewhat abrasive game a little less abrasive. Toward the end, the insults weren't really insults, but some of the earlier ones translated really poorly over the internet, or were actually mean. I plan to necro this thread about civility in Mafia Games in MD now that this game is over.

For clarification, tubby216, Watcher, did not win, because of the modkill.

Any comments that anyone has for me, good or bad, are appreciated. Unless you're mad that you got replaced/modkilled.

I am not mad that i got modkilled. I am upset for letting it happen.

All i wanna know is were you as the mod notified by pm of another player that found my posts offensive? or was it a decsion made by you with out any prompts?

[Benmage]

No issue in revealing QT.

Damn u battle mage

Well done town.

[DeathNote]

Yeah I totally forgot to block last night. :/

I was so used to blocking Ray that I just assumed I did it. I did not want Dramonic dead and I only wanted one kill, that way I wouldn't be the only suspect.

I totally failed on that and I am sorry my scum friends.

[Amished]

Ok, so say we lynch Dram then on what would've been D5.

Twilight would've been DN, GLaDOS, RayFrost and Me. If ray doesn't kill who DN kills, (and isn't DN) it's an auto-win for scum. So RayFrost would not have shot (should not have).

Who would you have killed the next night of Ray, GLaDOS and me? Either way, Ray was confirmed town, I knew today that we had a vote to play with (8 scum thing) so I wasn't worried about voting GLaDOS. You would've had to kill Ray, and by then I would've seen that your results didn't line up with what should've happened.

[hewitt]

The only problem that I saw was the overabundance of scum. We needed those crosskills to come to an endgame like this. We had 2 mislynches. Our vig was unsuccessful except for one (and blocked another time) which is about what I'd expect from a vig, but if it wasn't for Hewitt flat out shooting two Sicilians, I think it was unwinnable for the town.

Which brings me to my next point: Hewitt, did you know they were scum, or did you think they were power roles? Tubby watching you shoot somebody was a big nail in your coffin regarding that, but you could've gone for other scummy behavior if you really thought they were scum. This easily could've led to an endgame where you had the power roles and just outpowered the Sicilians rather than anything else.

haha i had absolutely no idea everybody i shot was sicilian mafia! i honestly was much more help than rayfrost (no offense) nightkill-wise lol.

Why were we killed N1?

we actually thought you were town and that you were the biggest threat to us. it was a shock when you flipped mafia.

[dramonic]

I wouldn<t have allowed a kill on me XP

[Battle Mage]

Haha! I love the way that both Mafias killed me, on a night where i forgot to send an investigation, and would probably have been lynched anyway. lmao xD

In all seriousness, brilliant game, and a brilliant win, guys

I'm happy with my correct reads on Hewitt and Snow White. We got damn lucky on Benmage. His play wasnt particularly scummy- which ironically, is the reason i investigated him. Sorry bro.

As Haylen said, i was really looking forward to this game, and it didn't disappoint.

BM

[Amished]

Gah, what made you say DN was not scum? He committed one of my few solid scumtells (that's pretty accurate) and you saying that as cop (even though your investigations were all accounted for) really made me doubt myself.

[Battle Mage]

I like Ray's LoS. Here is my own, before we have a hammer:

In order from Most Scummy to Most Protown. Questions will likely be met with disdain.

Snow White

- Probably Scum - I've discussed this enough. Nothing more really needs to be said. She will need lynching at some point. Not scum with DN or Dramonic.

DeathNote

- Probably Scum - Iso post 6 is well worth a read, as it is utter bs. BUT, i dont see him as scum with Snow White. Or Dramonic. In fact, isoing him is good. There's alot of trashy scumminess there!

Reading back for my opinion on Deathnote. The above quote is amusingly accurate. xD

And this:

Well Snow... care to hammer? Actually anyone please feel free to end this.

@Ray- Yeah another day is nice and all but you need to keep in mind that you just replaced in and havent gone through all the waiting that we have for a spark of posting. I will admit, I am happy so far that you replaced in as you have at least been posting.

Deathnote is OBV scum. I'd say he looks worse if OP flips scum.

I think what happened was, over a day-night cycle, i forgot about this, and when i saw DN taking alot of heat the next day when there were clearly better routes to pursue - Hewitt and SW, i thought he was more likely to be town getting bullied than scum.
Whoops. xD My memory does seem to be my main stumbling block these days.

BM

[hewitt]

Haha! I love the way that both Mafias killed me, on a night where i forgot to send an investigation, and would probably have been lynched anyway. lmao xD

OMG! i forgot yeah that was total luck that snow white had also targeted you and gave herself up. we had no idea lol. that was hysterical.

[Amished]

Yeah, what happened for me on D2 was that I still thought 2 docs, 2 vigs, etc.. was valid (I might have to do that as a game one time..) and I didn't see the SW scumminess yet. So I dismissed those two possibilities and went after who I thought was still scum (DN).

Any scums wanna post their QT?

Also, why was KoC NK'd? I now understand why I wasn't (being known vanilla, thanks hewitt for the respect for investigating me ); but I didn't understand a KoC kill as he was one of my top suspects for one small thing he said almost immediately (defense of DN D1 when I had DN pegged as scum; so chainsaw defense..) I'm pretty sure nobody else really saw that, but his death helped *me* out a lot, and not something that was easily predictable IMO.

[DeathNote]

I would have killed Gladus that night hoping that the end game would be me, ray and amished. If that was the case and we were still only getting one night kill, then Ray could have just as easily been scum as me. However, I always have scummy play so more then likely I would have been lynched. Endgame is always the funnest part for me but I am the worst person to reach it.

In my defense to all those who claimed to have "pegged" me scum... every game there is always one or two people who say that. I doesn't matter my role or alignment, just everyone always says I am scummy and generally I get lynched for it. Hence my signature.

[Amished]

Well, your sig is WIFOM, so if you're scum, we shouldn't believe you anyways.

[DeathNote]

Haha... well you should look into some of my theme games.

Lynched or blown up day 1 cause I am scummy... town both times.

[Benmage]

I'm happy with my correct reads on Hewitt and Snow White. We got damn lucky on Benmage. His play wasnt particularly scummy- which ironically, is the reason i investigated him. Sorry bro.

[X]

With respect to the modkill, I had considered modkilling someone (I don't remember whether it was tubby or not) before I actually did it. It was a scary decision, but I think it made a somewhat abrasive game a little less abrasive. Toward the end, the insults weren't really insults, but some of the earlier ones translated really poorly over the internet, or were actually mean. I plan to necro this thread about civility in Mafia Games in MD now that this game is over.

For clarification, tubby216, Watcher, did not win, because of the modkill.

Any comments that anyone has for me, good or bad, are appreciated. Unless you're mad that you got replaced/modkilled.

I am not mad that i got modkilled. I am upset for letting it happen.

All i wanna know is were you as the mod notified by pm of another player that found my posts offensive? or was it a decsion made by you with out any prompts?

X:

I made the decision without prompting, as I personally would have been seriously offended if you had directed either of your drugs comments at me. Also, I don't think it should be the responsibility of the players to make sure that they aren't insulted and complain about those who are insulting them.

[ZazieR]

Why were we killed N1?

we actually thought you were town and that you were the biggest threat to us. it was a shock when you flipped mafia.

Now I'm really curious to the scum QT ._.

[Amished]

Why were we killed N1?

we actually thought you were town and that you were the biggest threat to us. it was a shock when you flipped mafia.

Now I'm really curious to the scum QT ._.

[ZazieR]

In response to that, I never posted in our scum QT. So I'm not the one who should give the link to our QT.

[StrangerCoug]

I also compiled a list of bothersome/scary things for a mod:
1. The necessity to merging many posts into one. (Post 55, Post 1019)
2. Being "yelled" at by a player who got replaced because he went over the time limit.
3. Insults between players. (Post 105, Post 201, Post 357, Post 611, Post 629, Post 1024, Post 1240)
4. Discussing Role PM wordings. (Post 151, Post 274)
5. Discussing an ongoing game (Post 310)
6. Threats to Blacklist (Post 844)
7. Town fakeclaiming.
8. Needing to be replaced overNight.
9. Mafia families talking during Twilight.

And I thought my own large normal was exhausting...

[Amished]

no QT's Mostly looking for the American one, not sure how much was actually said in the Sicilian one...

[Pomegranate]

^^^ Same...