Not Prisoner's Dilemma?

[Wacky]

Back in Quantum mafia, I said that the situation:

Day:
2 townies
1 mafia
1 SK

where both the mafia and SK are revealed is a prisoner's dilemma situation (it turned out mole had a kill immunity which changed things, but)

Basically, if M + SK both kill townies, you end up with M,SK alive the next day - they kill each other, and it is a dead draw (I tend to think of it as a draw between M and SK excluding the town, but that's a matter of opinion)

However, if either of them kills the other instead, you end up with the backstabber and a townie the next day - backstabber wins.

However, obviously if both backstab, both lose.

In any case, if you are one of the killers, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by backstabbing.

So theoretically, both killers should kill one another and the town wins the next day.

Or so I thought.

A better (?) strategy that will force a draw is to simply say during the day. "I won't be killing tonight", and then not kill that night.

If the other killer kills you, the other 2 townies lynches him/her the next day.

If the other killer kills a townie, we end up with M, SK, T, and we have a prisoner's dilemma the next day.

This isn't in either of the killer's interest, especially since in doing so the other killer just wiped out all trust.

So, the best thing for the other killer to do is to ALSO not kill anyone.

And if both killer do nothing, the next day we have the same situation.

"And so they lived happily ever after..."

What do you think?

[Dasquian]

It all depends on whether the killers are out in the open as proven bad guys - I assume from your post that they are, but if they aren't then you get an interesting preliminary situation (which can evolve into this one) where it's in the town's interests to go no lynch and help the killers identify each other. If one of the killers can successfully identify the other while convincing them that one of the townies has his/her role,

and

satisfy the fourth townie that it's safe to go no lynch, they can win via the backstabber route.

However if both killers are identified to both each other and the town, that's not really an option. I don't see why one of the killers taking out a townie and the other not killing is so bad though - it doesn't really change anything all said and done.

Basically in that situation I think everyone's screwed, and it's going to come down to hoping your opponents do the wrong thing. Neither killer can afford to night-kill the other while there are two townies. The townies can't afford to lynch a killer. The townies' best bet is probably to lynch a townie, so that the killers

can

afford to night-kill the other and feel obliged to. But since there are only two townies, the killers can and probably should block this move.

[Cadmium]

If I was a killer in a situation like this, I'd simply suggest to the other killer to go for a draw together.

[Mgm]

I was in a similar situation as an SK in Comic Book mafia over on the Grey Labyrinth. My mafia oponent decided to kill a townie to stop the town from winning. Unfortunately for him, I decided to kill him, leaving me alone with the last townie.

Curiously, he also happened to kill the only townie who could've decided to protect himself that night, which he didn't (thinking, the mafia and me would kill each other).

Imagine my surprise the next day.

Basicly, everyone is screwed in a setup like that. I was lucky that time....

[mole]

My immunity notwithstanding, I think the way we ended up managing things in that game was much more elegant. Wipe out all the townies first, then go to the shootout.

[Wacky]

If one of the killers can successfully identify the other while convincing them that one of the townies has his/her role, and satisfy the fourth townie that it's safe to go no lynch, they can win via the backstabber route.

Totally agree.

I don't see why one of the killers taking out a townie and the other not killing is so bad though - it doesn't really change anything all said and done.

You'd have:

1 Townie.
1 SK
1 Mafia.

If Mafia didn't kill, SK kills mafia - > 1 T, 1SK -> SK win.


Whereas in the other situation you'd have 2T, 1SK -> town win.

The townies' best bet is probably to lynch a townie, so that the killers can afford to night-kill the other and feel obliged to.

That would forcibly put the killers in the situation above, I think. Good idea

If I was a killer in a situation like this, I'd simply suggest to the other killer to go for a draw together.

What kind of draw?

[CaptainBlicero]

The townies' best bet is probably to lynch a townie

How do you pick which townie?

Methinks that would make for a heated argument.

[Cadmium]

What kind of draw?

Well, not the shootout that mole suggested . Draw as in standoff or tie.

[warpdragon]

The same think hapened in Kidvitational. We lynched a townie and then the sk killed the mafia who killed the townie (me). And I even said we had to lynch a good guy for the potential win rather than the automatic loss.