Pledge of Allegiance (Game Over! Page 76)

[LlamaFluff]

Fixed.

Cool. Now be useful.

[Fishythefish]

He breadcrumbed it in his FIRST POST!!! He has not once denied it! He has claimed to have tried to recruit me and failed!!!

In my last game with Jack, he breadcrumbed SK in the first post, as town. I don't think insane breadcrumbing is a tell for him. I can't see any reason why non-cult leaders would bother to deny your accusations any more than cult leaders. His claim to have tried to recruit you was clearly a joke. I'll be very surprised if Jack flips cult leader.

[UncertainKitten]

@Fishy: My theory is he's a point grabber for cult.

[popsofctown]

who did ani replace?

[Nicodemus]

OK, I'm here, I haven't read the last ten pages.

Apparently a big part of the case against me is my "role-fishing". What about this is exactly scummy? All I saw was him saying that Fishy was not town, AFTER he had voted for Llama. It looked to me like he was just trying to get out of the limelight for his suspect Llama vote, and shift the attention on to someone else. I wasn't willing to lynch Fishy just because someone makes a comment like that, with no explanation. I know many players who make pronouncements in exactly the same way (DGB, Elli for example). I couldn't tell if chronopie was doing the same thing, or if he had role-based info. So I asked for clarification. Obviously everyone else saw the statement as role-based rather than a simple read, but tell me, how does this make me more likely scum than anyone else? The fact that I'm slower at recognizing a PR than other players? If everyone was able to instantly recognize chronopie as a PR, wouldn't it be kind of meaningless for me to clarify if he was in fact a PR or not, from a scum point of view? We would be killing him regardless, yes? So why does me asking him where his information come from = scum? I wanted to make sure I was following a PR, not a gutread, before I piled on the wagon.

Also, sorry for the lurking, I started a new job and have much less internet access time since I moved back home for the summer. I'll try to stick it out in this game but I might need to be replaced anyway.

[UncertainKitten]

Mostly you were trying to figure out the source of his information since there are SEVERAL investigative roles that could get a not town result, and some of them are more threatening than others.

The lol rolefish was pretty damn terrible.

[Fishythefish]

@Nico: some other reasons for you being scum other than the rolefish -
- When attacked with the accusation that one of your stances was "dreadful", you responded "is that scummy?". To me, this strongly suggests you never believed the stance in the first place, as you weren't in any way trying to justify your thinking.
- Your stance on DGB's attack on Zorblag made no sense. Felt you were just trying to set yourself up to be able to follow DGB if you needed to.
- You switched from xvart to pops with no reasoning just when xvart's wagon was losing steam, and pops's was getting going. A very convenient change of opinion.

[Gammagooey]

Nico-
Who's scum?
Are there scum on your wagon and if so where/who?

RC & charter & Shotty - You three have said you'd prefer a Nico wagon to Trolls, so why are you still on 1-2 vote wagons when Troll could be taken to L-1 any second by the guy you'd rather vote for?

d3x and pops- Who would you rather lynch between Nico and Troll?

[Shotty to the Body]

Nico-
Who's scum?
Are there scum on your wagon and if so where/who?

RC & charter & Shotty - You three have said you'd prefer a Nico wagon to Trolls, so why are you still on 1-2 vote wagons when Troll could be taken to L-1 any second by the guy you'd rather vote for?

d3x and pops- Who would you rather lynch between Nico and Troll?

Simply because I prefer nico to troll doesn't make it my first choice wagon. I don't see how the threat of L-1 is pressing enough to make me move my vote prematurely.

[d3x]

d3x and pops- Who would you rather lynch between Nico and Troll?

If it came to deadline, I'd probably go for a Nico Wagon. Either would be preferable to a No Lynch, imo.

[popsofctown]

Troll, on the bad gut. Is there deadline pressure yet?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Troll, on the bad gut. Is there deadline pressure yet?

Three days away in a big game, yeah I'd say there's deadline pressure. And you should be helping us lynch your scum-partner Nicodemus, that'll help you get town cred.

[d3x]

So I just looked at the Vote Count and while I'd rather get a Nico Lynch, there are more players on his Wagon that I think are Scum/AntiTown than Troll's. I still like Nico for Scum more than Troll, however.

[Zorblag]

@animorpherv1, for the sake of the town, regardless of what happens today you're going to need to change how your dealing with the third party factions from here on out. If we've got neutral non-hostile point factions in the game (and we probably do) town can't ever let their presence stop scum hunting. Either you need to eliminate them via lynches or vigilante kills (and with the numbers and current information we think we're dealing with that's probably impractical) or you've got to be willing to let them help you hunt scum when you think that you've identified them. You can't avoid lynching scum early because you're worried about one of the factions getting points; if the town does that then those neutral factions are essentially hurting the town and should be eliminated. The town, on the other hand, doesn't care about points at all; we can simply lynch who we think is scummiest each day. If we're sure that someone should be part of one of the three branches then we simply have one less target to consider. I would have liked to lynch Fishythefish today just to get his flip and confirm that it gives the same information that xvart's did (the roleblocker issue that came up makes things a bit hazey and we're almost certainly in good enough shape now to probably lynch a non-hostile third party if we get enough value out of it) but since we're not doing that we should simply be looking for our best shot to hit scum.

Aside from that, I'd like to hear why it is that you think that I'm a Serial Killer. Have you looked over my play this game or are you just assuming it's true because a number of people were saying it? Have you looked at Nicodemus's play as the other potential wagon?

@DrippingGoofball, do you think that Nicodemus is town at this point? His wagon is largely based on pressure that was coming from others before he largely disappeared. Apparently you're going with role-fishing as a neutral tell here (have you said that elsewhere as well? I don't recall seeing it from you previously) but what about the rest of his play?

@Ellibereth, why do you think I'm a Serial Killer? Why do you think there's a Serial Killer in the game? If you think that Nicodemus is scum why did you switch your vote back over to me?

@farside22, why are you voting for me at this point? Is it because you
think I'm likely to be scum in general or are you going with the Serial Killer in particular argument?

@LlamaFluff, could you do me a favor and recap why you think I'm the best lynch of the day at this point? Perhaps if others see your case those that haven't decided one way or another will be persuaded. I think that my reaction to Chronopie is a (big?) part of it but I'd love to see a quick summary of exactly what I've done that makes me worse than people who have been hanging out on the sidelines for the most part.

@Plum, hopefully you'll have a chance to give that case on me sometime soon. I don't need it to be hugely pretty, mostly I want to see what your major points are. You seem awfully set on my lynch today so I assume you must have some things in mind.

@popsofctown, I take your most recent response to mean that you have a bad gut read on me. I don't seem to see you mentioning anything about that earlier (the other comment I see about me was asking DrippingGoofball why you should think I'm scum because my first post didn't seem lynchable to you.) When did this bad gut read come about? Does that mean that you've got a good or neutral read on Nicodemus at this point?

@UncertainKitten, I can see potentially keeping an outted Serial Killer around early in the game if you think that the town will be able to control their kills but in general I don't think that the possibility of cross kills from them to mafia is a good enough reason to keep them around if you find one. More kills do give more information but even if a Serial Killer is trying to hit scum they're probably more likely to hit town early in the game (well, or other factions in this game in particular perhaps.) I think I'd almost always take one less night kill and more time to sort out who the mafia were if I had the chance to kill someone I was sure was a Serial Killer early.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[animorpherv1]

@Zorblag:

It was mainly for precautions, which noone seems to agree with

unvote

since I'm going nowhere with it.

[UncertainKitten]

@Troll: That also brings up the fact that I'm not

sure

you are a Serial Killer. But I think this is just a theory disagreement. Dropping the numbers fast and early is how I think it is optimal to play a large, but to slow down when you get into the lower teens. It means you have to scumhunt better, but overall I think it makes the game easier on town.

[StrangerCoug]

For some reason, I think animorpherv1 is in a points group. "Precautions" with no other explanation?

I still like my vote, though.

[farside22]

@farside22, why are you voting for me at this point? Is it because you
think I'm likely to be scum in general or are you going with the Serial Killer in particular argument?

Because the more vocal players that don't have the common sense that God gave a billy goat don't want to listen to anyone else that has a view that differs from their own. Instead they want to put a label on people who dare to have an oppinion and a voice, tell them to stick it up their butt and make the game unfun for anyone that dares to speak against them.
In short I dont' care unless fishy gets lynched who gets lynched. I expect to be RB'ed/killed or get information that will help the town again and be ignored tomorrow again. DGB wants to claim some super secret ability that people will mindless sheep to who am I to be listened to. Apparently I'm some other because no one is telling me how my logic is flawed expect they can see a point system and think for reason's that just make no sense to me believe that a player is working for the town. Sure lets forget he lied. Lets forget the claimed cop's result and mindless sheep to DGB.
Weeeeee I'm have so much fun.

And yes for anyone who read this far I already told the mod all this but more bluntely and less nicely. I asked to be replaced at one point was asked to think and give it time but nothing has changed and I'm just waiting for night. See if I get anything news wise tonight or hope I'm dead instead.

[Zorblag]

@animorphev1, for that to count you'll need to put a ## in front of the unvote. What I'd love to see from you right now is your analysis about why both Nicodemus and I are or aren't scummy based on reading through our posts.

@UncertainKitten, well, clearly I think you shouldn't be sure that I am a Serial Killer but if you were I don't think that the arguments you were giving for not lynching one were that compelling. I'll be a bit happier if you're essentially willing to treat potential Serial Killers as potential scum this game and lynch them just like you would if you thought you had found a member of the mafia (which is what you seem to be doing with Nicodemus.)

@StrangerCoug, can I take it that you've looked over Nicodemus's play at this point and you think he's doing more to make you think that he's not town than I am? It was never clear to me that you'd done that previously.

@farside22, does it make an difference to you that I was one of the few players who agreed with you that Fishythefish should be lynched today? I didn't switch my vote until after you did. I certainly agree that the sheeping is irritating; I'm doing my best to get people to examine their reasoning at this point.

I grant that you're frustrated at the town but I'd really like it if you actually cast a vote on the one of Nicodemus and I that you think is actually scummier. I think that in the long run you'd rather lynch scum today than not even if we're not going to lynch Fishythefish.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[farside22]

My issue with the Nico wagon is (current game reference moment) Nico doesn't play scum well. I can't imagine someone who got (current game reference here) would chose to play scum in this game.
Sure it's a bit meta and what would you chose in this group theory more then saying OMG Nico is so town post. But it's a valid point in my mind.
Since I don't see people wanting to lynch fishy otherwise they will be bullied by others in the game I'm just going to go with this vote. See how it flips and if DGB is wrong I can tell her to stick a fork in it and let someone else's view be a driving point.
yeah it's that bitch in me again moment.

[Zorblag]

@farside22, do you think that Nicodemus plays town any better than he plays scum offhand? Is he playing this game like he played the one where you've seen him play as scum?

You'll hopefully excuse me not loving the stance you're taking here given the situation. I'd much rather have you voting for someone you think is scum now rather than viewing this as a chance to teach people a lesson about blindly following DrippingGoofball. They'll get that eventually anyhow whether I get lynched today or not.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[farside22]

Let me get back to you on the meta on Nico. I haven't seen him as town so let me get a fresh view in my head and I'll be back to give my analysis on it over all.

[Zorblag]

@farside22, I'd appreciate that, thanks.

-Zorblag R`Lyeh

[farside22]

okay so I did a brief look a nico in a game he was town newb town
unfortunetly searching around the only place he is scum is currently ongoing. I didn't not find another game here at MS as him scum so this is going to be difficult without letting others see his scum game but let me describe his town vs scum.

First thing I noticed
more scum hunting has town.
hestitating, asking questions as scum
When he scum hunts as scum he's all over the place with no real good case and he's trips on his own tongue.
As town goes more with gut feeling, meta and analysis.
I note this game seems to show more town then scum qualities in my view.

[Zorblag]

@farside22, thanks for taking some time to look at that. I guess I think that 5 votes for 5 different players over the course of 10 posts feels like it's all over the place to me and it does feel like he's hesitating as a reaction to the information about Fishythefish but perhaps you're taking those into account.

Do you have any sort of best guess for who scum is at this point? I know your feelings about Fishythefish but who else would be a good lynch if he got day-vigged right now and you needed to hit scum today?

-Zorblag R`Lyeh