Mini 981: Descent into Chaos (Game Over)

[UncertainKitten]

ABR brings up a good point, but I'm not sure if the fact we don't know who's actually sleeping at night justifies it.

[Albert B. Rampage]

ABR brings up a good point, but I'm not sure if the fact we don't know who's actually sleeping at night justifies it.

If they are scum and they miss their sleep cycle, their votes / NKs / abilities will miss, which we will either notice or will backfire against them.

[UncertainKitten]

If they are scum and they miss their sleep cycle, their votes / NKs / abilities will miss, which we will either notice or will backfire against them.

But again, that takes 4 phases to reach, and isn't a guarantee. Scum are likely to stagger their sleep.

[UncertainKitten]

Oh, as an aside, if we do have some level of success lynching scum, I suggest the "nightless game" idea be revisited since it will be much harder for scum to stagger their sleep as their numbers drop.

[Albert B. Rampage]

For future flavor purposes, this is my character's relationship with the other players:

vIQleS (Jonqin Aldertoss)

Hates 'em.

ReaperCharlie (Hyperion Maci)
VasudeVa (Theadora Lye)
Pittbunny (Rachella Harlek)
Kenman (Gaston Hartley)
easjo682 (Ferdinand Kepples)

Never met.

Nikanor (Vastedon Kowrelle)
Chronopie (Marya Torr)

Vaguely recalls having seen them before.

Me=Weird (Abner Jayworthy)

Got recruited by him.

UncertainKitten (Alicia Tabbernathy)

Vaguely recalls, but has a feeling something bad happened between them...

farside22 (Ptero "Peg" Darmouth)

Good friends.

[farside22]

Give me a break down of the plan then UK. All I see is Nik talking about Day 3.
You stated the following:

The one I advocated was sleeping every night, but that DOES effectively make it so that we are guaranteed to not have a kill every three nights unless scum are stupid.

So please explain how I misrep'ed this post and comment?

I say stagger sleep. Here is why. Scum is going to do what ever the F@#$ they want to do. We can try any number of things to catch them but in the end they can lie and lie easily.
Staggering sleep. Those we feel are most likely scum should sleep. Those that are town should sleep during the day. We don't need to sleep every day.
D2 have results discuss result. Decide again between us who should sleep at night and who should sleep during the first part of the day. I think those we feel scummy day 1 should be forced till we lynch them continue to sleep during the night. Problem I see is if player is scum they can lie so this may be useless to us.
I'm hoping for trackers, jks or rb's for the town at this point to ensure people that town feels are scummy are watched during the night. This may keep the scum scared at the very least.

[Albert B. Rampage]

If they are scum and they miss their sleep cycle, their votes / NKs / abilities will miss, which we will either notice or will backfire against them.

But again, that takes 4 phases to reach, and isn't a guarantee. Scum are likely to stagger their sleep.

We're going to schedule each player to sleep once every 3 phases, if they miss their sleep phase, they will go 2 phases fatigued, which means at least one day phase and one night phase.

[farside22]

Oh, as an aside, if we do have some level of success lynching scum, I suggest the "nightless game" idea be revisited since it will be much harder for scum to stagger their sleep as their numbers drop.

may would agree with this depending on # of players alive at that point.
Problem again is that it takes 4 day phases for anyone to know if someone is effected.

[UncertainKitten]

We're going to schedule each player to sleep once every 3 phases, if they miss their sleep phase, they will go 2 phases fatigued, which means at least one day phase and one night phase.

That would mean Even nights would be hypothetically missed. And while the chance is high that it would show in their votes, it's still no guarantee. Regardless, it's a better thought out plan for night sleeping than anything I proposed.

@farside: That was me considering Nikanor's plan. It still doesn't remove the fact you completely ignore Nika proposing it FIRST and get on ME for it.

As for scum lying, the sleep mechanic IS constructed as such so that scum can't lie for too long as long as we stick TO forcing them to sleep at night. They MAY be able to skip one night phase. Skipping two would be too dangerous for them.

[farside22]

If they are scum and they miss their sleep cycle, their votes / NKs / abilities will miss, which we will either notice or will backfire against them.

But again, that takes 4 phases to reach, and isn't a guarantee. Scum are likely to stagger their sleep.

We're going to schedule each player to sleep once every 3 phases, if they miss their sleep phase, they will go 2 phases fatigued, which means at least one day phase and one night phase.

What stops scum from doing this? honestly?

On a side note ABR is looking really town in my view. not sure about the chrono and vis feel but agree with everything else. Pitt and easjo do seem the most scummiest. Not sure on the 3rd.

unvote:
vote: Easjo

[UncertainKitten]

@farside: Well, slight chance it becomes obvious after two phases if I'm reading properly? But generally will take 4 phases to catch the scum breaking the plan. Which is probably why we'd need to do very well and probably lynch two scum really early on. Course, I've caught two scum for you so we should work on lynching them .

[farside22]

UK: I'm trying very hard not to explain why I see a loop hole in your plan. I would like to not help scum with what I would see as a way to get around the sleep plan. I think someone else mentioned it and that is as far as I'm going to go into saying why scum can and will find a way around doing what the town feels best.

[UncertainKitten]

Do you mean my day plan or night plan? Cause my day plan should for the most part work if we can break down the numbers. The night plan, I'm only half heartedly arguing for since at this point I'm not overly enamored with it but feel it should be explored somewhat to make sure there's no hope, if that makes sense?

[easjo682]

I wouldn't have cared as much if you actually had good reasons, but you are DIRECTLY PARROTING FARSIDE, who ALSO has my plan completely the fuck wrong. What's even MORE hilarious is you ignore Nikanor, who suggested it FIRST.

What did Nikanor say first?

Also I created my responce as I was reading/catching up with the thread seeing as it was at four pages, none of which I'd had a chance to read, yeah I saw farsides post and thought, this is what I was more or less thinking, but thought I might as well make my post seeing as it was what I'd thought as I was reading. It only appears like I'm parroting because I wasn't here to see posting until it had reached page four.

I say we stop planning out when people are going to sleep, it will do nothing for us, the scum will still be able to act as they wish and if we annoce it then they will know whos asleep when and therefore eliminate possiblities when night action/PR happen therefore they will be able to narrow down a potential list of who it is beneficial to kill.

[farside22]

Do you mean my day plan or night plan? Cause my day plan should for the most part work if we can break down the numbers. The night plan, I'm only half heartedly arguing for since at this point I'm not overly enamored with it but feel it should be explored somewhat to make sure there's no hope, if that makes sense?

The night plan. The day plan really is more hey lets sleep so are votes count helps town and scum. So sleeping during the day doesnt' do much but this is why I stated I would rather have those I feel most pro-town sleep during the day and I like what ABR stated about doing a 3 day cycle.
Trust me there is a loop hole in the night plan that scum can make and discussing it helps scum more out so....yeah your going to have to give me a good reason to share how to break your plan.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Well we can all agree that UK's night plan was....less than stellar. It got discussion going though and I don't think it was scum-motivated.

[farside22]

I say we stop planning out when people are going to sleep, it will do nothing for us, the scum will still be able to act as they wish and if we annoce it then they will know whos asleep when and therefore eliminate possiblities when night action/PR happen therefore they will be able to narrow down a potential list of who it is beneficial to kill.

This is the only reason I find sleeping during the day over night better. Scum knows X is asleep so they target Y.
But also my plan says town finds X and Y scummy and says hey you need to sleep tonight and can't sleep during the day. I can see a loop hole if x is scum but not Y but if both are scum loop holes can be found. But my hope is if we think X and Y we just lynch one or the other the next day.
I would rather force those we find the scummiest not to sleep during the day.

[farside22]

Well we can all agree that UK's night plan was....less than stellar. It got discussion going though and I don't think it was scum-motivated.

That reminds me.

*adds VV to scum list.

carry on.

[farside22]

Last post for now.
Why Easjo looks scummy with just 2 post.
easjo: says pretty much what I did and doesn't question further. Pretty much I think X is scum and nothing new added to post.
second post is a lie in my view. If this is a catch up post why only talk about one player and their plan and nothing else.
A catch up as views on what everyone stated and what you feel or think of everyone or the situation.

[UncertainKitten]

@easjo: Thank you for making it more obvious you are scum. Not only do you not read the game and instead piggy back other logic, but you also propose something rather anti town since town being organized is BAD FOR SCUM.

@farside: My day plan still has STRUCTURE though, and never allows a majority to sleep so that scum control the town. I think the numbers still have to be worked out though. And why do you think I'm asking you why the night plan is broken? I've mostly abandoned it, and nowhere in my post did I ask you to disclose.

Could you PLEASE stop implying that I'm asking things I'm not?

And, farside also brings up another reason easjo needs to die. Now.

[farside22]

UK: Explain what I'm supposed to interupt with this statement then?

I'm not overly enamored with it but feel it should be explored somewhat to make sure there's no hope, if that makes sense?

[easjo682]

If this is a catch up post why only talk about one player and their plan and nothing else.

because that seemed to be what the talk was about, I didn't comment directly on other peoples talking about the sleep plan, because I thought my statement would cover what I felt about it, if I were to address more statements I'd end up repeating myself when I don't need to.

hank you for making it more obvious you are scum. Not only do you not read the game and instead piggy back other logic, but you also propose something rather anti town since town being organized is BAD FOR SCUM.

In this case if we organise ourselves it will help scum because they will know who is sleeping when and therefore narrow down suspects when a power that disadvantages them is used

[SaintKerrigan]

The Ruleset has been modified.

From

Article IV: Sleep Cycle

2. At the start of a phase

(within 24 hours after phase start)

, a player may choose to sleep.

From

Article IV: Sleep Cycle

2a. Sleep lasts for three real-life days

(or until the end of the phase, whichever comes first)

, and removes all adverse effects caused by not sleeping for long periods of time.

From

Article IV: Sleep Cycle

2c. If you submit an action, make a post, or

wait longer than 24 hours

before you inform the mod that you wish to sleep, you forfeit the option to sleep during that phase.

[UncertainKitten]

Ah, understandable misunderstanding. I meant getting opinions on it, not necessarily pointing out flaws if pointing those flaws out would aid scum. Either way, I'm coming around to day sleeping anyway.

@easjo: Oh yes, because it wouldn't be obvious ANYWAY due to people staying awake during the day and suffering no ill effects. There's no good way to hide lack of sleep. Scum will generally have more information then us. Organizing sleep schedules at the least puts town and scum at the same level of information, with scum having a slight edge. As it stands, I think scum have a greater edge on sleep knowledge.

[SaintKerrigan]

*bumping for a vote count*