Mini 1070 The Godfather:Hunt for Sollozzo (GAME!)

[StrangerCoug]

UNVOTE: Thor665 to let the argument between him and pacman281292 play out.

[Thor665]

The "choices and decisions made that he didn't account for" aren't clear to me. If your case on him is trying to prolong the RVS, then I see your point, but I don't think we're on the same page here.

I've outlined them before but here goes ver 2.4;

He changed his vote from a random vote. To my mind the only reason to change off of one completely random vote to another completely random vote is...well...for reasons *other then* randomness.

He cited his reason (people who bandwagon) I pointed out how I was also bandwagoning, and had in fact been bandwagoning first.

Which means he had a reason when debating between Thor and bv for his new vote as to why he chose bv over Thor.
He claims the modding reason.
If he's telling the truth then that is a terrible reason to pick bv over me and isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
If he's lying then he had other reasons he's not telling us, which isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
I'll also add that he's gone on a little blitz against me, wherein he's called some stuff I did "lazy" and "BS" and has intimated that he doesn't like me and that he thinks there is some meat to Thorscum/Far_Cryscum and he's done this all...without switching his vote to me.

That seems odd, since I'm pretty sure by everything he's said that I should be higher on his scumlist then bv is. So why leave the vote on bv? I dunno. Want to find out. Shall try to lynch him for his non-accounted for actions until I get a better scumread on someone else or I start getting a town read on him.

Follow now?

[pacman281292]

I never said Far_Cry "managet to post a lot and provided very little". Wingless "questions" are "Why is Thor scum? Why is Far_Cry scum?" as reply to an (IMO) random statement. BS.

I thought your response to Far_Cry was an indictment of his vague and not pointed posts. If not, feel free to tell me what your meant. I'll stand by my opinion towards his posts though.
I did second the Wingless questions...I...don't know what point you're trying to make otherwise though.

Well, the smiley is indeed unrelated. That was more meant to be my reaction to hearing him saying that your posting was like this.
The point is mostly directed to Wingless' slight overreaction to Exilon's apparently random statement. I'm not sure, but it seems to be Exilon's playstyle. If so, the question might have been (somehow) serious, thus worth the point. Otherwise it's worthless.

WHAT?
*head asplodes*
Your vote is indeed an overreaction to a joke directed to the moderator of one of the games I'll soon play at. How the hell is it "a serious reason"?
*head asplodes again.

I am not shocked that your head asplodes as regards my case on you. I've yet to see anyone buy into the case on them Day 1.
I still don't find your constant need to restate just how random your vote is as convincing to me.

First, I don't know how do you want me to get a positive answer to such a poor case. Second, I don't know how might I prove that my vote was random. It was, everyone understood the joke except you and (apparently) FakeGod.

Lazy. However, Exilon's post might have a point. Gotta recheck that.

What does me being lazy have to do with anything?
Oh, this is mudslinging - never mind.

Lazy for pointing out Exilon's point on what he said, then deciding not to look more for it because you're bad at it.

This reasoning made me laugh.
"Choices and decisions made that I didn't account for". Sure, man. The "Choices and decisions made that I didn't account for" were other people's random votes. I don't get how that might have made my second random vote invalid without invalidating all other random votes, thus failing to answer the adressed question properly. Thus, your logic fails.
I'm starting to dislike this guy...

I did address the question properly - he asked me if it made sense and I said 'yes'. You can *disagree* with that but implying that I dodged a question is simply more mudslinging.

I didn't say you dodged the question. I pointed out that your answer was indeed invalid, thus saying that your "case" was just baseless.

I'm sorry that you now dislike me, you can still have some of my scumday cake, however.

Don't worry. This isn't personal.

[Andrius]

I'm posting this votecount because I haven't heard from CSL.
I'm studying for a Business Law exam, so I'm otherwise

LA

.

Votecount 1.2

"I believe in America." - Amerigo Bonasera

RedCoyote (1): Wingless
StrangerCoug (1): bv310
bv310 (1): pacman281292
Wingless (1): Far_Cry
pacman281292 (2): Thor665, FakeGod
Thor665 (2): RedCoyote, Exilon

Not Voting (4): Zajnet, Katsuki, Bub Bidderskins, StrangerCoug

With 12 alive it takes 7 to gun someone down.
Deadline is set at October 31st, at 5:00pm PST.
Mafia 24-hour DayTalk is over.

[Far_Cry]

The thing with 'DISCUSS' is that you try and find out why I said so. You're awful.
Also, you should be saying ' I do not agree' or 'I agree.'.

So why are you asking me why instead of stating what you think? GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH
Good, we're making progress.~

WTF? What am I supposed to say? I AGREE THAT I'M SCUM WITH THOR, or what?

I think Thor made a vote against pacman for pacman's somewhat questionable random vote. When this vote came under fire, Thor responded by heavily defending it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to just back down and say, "yes, my vote was wrong and I shouldn't have done it." That would be pussy.

Anyways, why are you not answering my question? Why are you asking for everyone to say something and then not saying something yourself? Are you waiting for something popular to come up so you can jump on it? You're playing typical scum behavior here. GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH. UNVOTE: VOTE: Exilon.

[Zajnet]

Man, I can't get a solid read on anyone. You'd think with all of this argument I'd be able to pinpoint something. The main thing is that I still think that everyone is overreacting to the whole pacman/bv/thor issue. I still see it all as a null read.

[RedCoyote]

Why wouldn't we go out of RVS?

I was being facetious. Were you unable to see that, or did you vote me in spite of that?

---

pacman's post 55 seems a little frantic. Are you normally this on edge, pacman, or is it because you have votes on you?

---

Btw, Andrius, if blue is anyone's color, feel free to change this^to navy. Kthx.

Also

/confirm

My role will never get me nightkilled unless I play extremely pro-town.

Is the blue supposed to indicate anything specific?

Additionally, what do you mean about the last sentence? Why are you talking about your role?

---

Oh hey guys, mafia get daytalk until 5pm PST. Let's stop posting until then shall we?

This was a good idea, did you just think of it when you posted this?

Also, do you think FC and Bub are slightly more suspicious because they ignored your request without addressing it?

---

I'm sorry that you now dislike me, you can still have some of my scumday cake, however.

Happy belated scumday, btw. I forgot to say that to you. pacman would do well to remember that this isn't personal... it's just

business

.

[FakeGod]

My thoughts: lengthening RVS only helps scum. Therefore, RedCoyote's "facetious" attempt at lengthening RVS was anti-town.

however, I learned that anti-town doesn't necessarily means scum in my recent games. I have grown.

[Zajnet]

My thoughts: lengthening RVS only helps scum. Therefore, RedCoyote's "facetious" attempt at lengthening RVS was anti-town.

however, I learned that anti-town doesn't necessarily means scum in my recent games. I have grown.

How does a longer RVS help the scum? I would say that a longer RVS gives the scum more time to slip up. In most games where I've seen scum lynched D1 its from a slip-up in RVS that the scum reacted to poorly under pressure.

[FakeGod]

By definition, RVS has no serious discussions, meaning there is no serious scumhunting.

And are you really gonna count on scum making a mistake? psshh

[Bub Bidderskins]

Why wouldn't we go out of RVS?

Oh hey guys, mafia get daytalk until 5pm PST. Let's stop posting until then shall we?

This was a good idea, did you just think of it when you posted this?

Also, do you think FC and Bub are slightly more suspicious because they ignored your request without addressing it?

Do you mean posted without addressing it? Well it looks like everybody's guilty of that. I think it was a good idea that didn't have any chance of sucess with all the bickering between pacman and thor.

Pacman is really over-reacting to Thor, though overall I read it as an argument between two townies.

I still don't know what Exilon was trying to accomplish with his thor/fc scumteam.

[pacman281292]

pacman's post 55 seems a little frantic. Are you normally this on edge, pacman, or is it because you have votes on you?

I don't know how do you feel this post is "frantic".
Also, I don't care about my meta. It changes depending on where I'm playing, if that's what you're asking.
/quickpost.

[Exilon]

I'm not denying you your methods, I'm saying I don't see the value added currently. Who are you applying your "GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH" tell to? Who do you think ducked the question and why do you think that shows them having knowledge beyond what a town player would have?

You need to be sorted out I'm applying that 'got something to hide' to the players who instead of discussing, like say 'I agree', 'I don't agree.', are asking me WHY I made that assumption. Basically, I'm asking them to take a stance, and they were completely unable to or rather, unwilling to.

The 'crap-trap', so to speak, is not directed at identifying if someone has knowledge beyond a normal vanilla townie (not only scum has that, so it's pointless), but rather discover who's threading the ground instead of being direct and concise with what they say.

A scummy player, specially in RVS, avoids taking stances because the game is, precisely, volatile, since that may garner undesired atention if you flip-flop too much (scum has to be careful with 'whom' they suspect). Town doesn't have that problem, as they genuinely do not know who's town. See where I'm getting?

Therefore, and following that logic, this:

I also agree with Wingless that Exilon needs to exlain his reasons for suspecting Thor and Farcry before we can discuss.

, specially after this:

Why is Thor scum? And why is Farcry? You could posts the reasons too.

And this:

I would appreciate it if you could tell us why this is so.

Becomes scummy as heck. Points to note:
a)

Farcry's response is an exception, since he's obviously the one being accused. The most he could say is 'no', but I haven't stated 'why, so he can't answer. this point is also an answer to your response post, Farcry.

b) Bud only mentioned Wingless even though Farcry also stated the same thing as Wing.
c) Wing, before making his stance, asks me WHY I have that stance. Scum has a dire need of knowing the why's, town doesn't. (because) Scum has to fabricate suspicion, town doesn't. therefore, most often than not, you'll find scum agreeing with a case which seems good because it justifies their bandwagoning and makes them less suspicious. Bud follows suit. This suggests a unconsicous 'blend with the crowd' attittude.

---

Anyways, why are you not answering my question? Why are you asking for everyone to say something and then not saying something yourself? Are you waiting for something popular to come up so you can jump on it? You're playing typical scum behavior here.

If I were waiting for something popular, I wouldn't have stepped forward and claimed 'x and y is scum'. That is a) very risky move for scum, specially on early game, and b) DOING something which goes against the definition of 'waiting for something'.

But that's the things with crap-traps. They're part-crap, part good. However, there's a difference. While I'm being completely conscious about what I'm saying, besides making a claim that 'x and y is scum', the responses I got were not the same. In fact, they're actually devoid of any direct answer to that statement. To everything anyone says, other people have unconscious reactions which they are not aware of. And that's generally how scum slip, wich is what I was trying to scan. For instance:

Is the blue supposed to indicate anything specific?

Additionally,

what do you mean about the last sentence? Why are you talking about your role?

ROLEFISHING HUH
Why address this and not address the 'discuss' part? What is the town motivation to find a comment about one's own role more interesting than a 'x and y are scum' claim? Specially, because I wasn't the only one who commented on his own role after confirming. What is town's motivation to ask 'why are you talking about your role'?

---

I still don't know what Exilon was trying to accomplish with his thor/fc scumteam.

This.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Bud

I have now stated my reasons, guys, YOU CAN NOW DISCUSS MY STATEMENT THAT THEY'RE SCUM.
GO.

[StrangerCoug]

The "choices and decisions made that he didn't account for" aren't clear to me. If your case on him is trying to prolong the RVS, then I see your point, but I don't think we're on the same page here.

I've outlined them before but here goes ver 2.4;

He changed his vote from a random vote. To my mind the only reason to change off of one completely random vote to another completely random vote is...well...for reasons *other then* randomness.

He cited his reason (people who bandwagon) I pointed out how I was also bandwagoning, and had in fact been bandwagoning first.

Which means he had a reason when debating between Thor and bv for his new vote as to why he chose bv over Thor.
He claims the modding reason.
If he's telling the truth then that is a terrible reason to pick bv over me and isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
If he's lying then he had other reasons he's not telling us, which isn't pro-town - which is a decent reason to vote someone.
I'll also add that he's gone on a little blitz against me, wherein he's called some stuff I did "lazy" and "BS" and has intimated that he doesn't like me and that he thinks there is some meat to Thorscum/Far_Cryscum and he's done this all...without switching his vote to me.

That seems odd, since I'm pretty sure by everything he's said that I should be higher on his scumlist then bv is. So why leave the vote on bv? I dunno. Want to find out. Shall try to lynch him for his non-accounted for actions until I get a better scumread on someone else or I start getting a town read on him.

Follow now?

I'm good.

WTF? What am I supposed to say? I AGREE THAT I'M SCUM WITH THOR, or what?

I think Thor made a vote against pacman for pacman's somewhat questionable random vote. When this vote came under fire, Thor responded by heavily defending it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense for him to just back down and say, "yes, my vote was wrong and I shouldn't have done it." That would be pussy.

Anyways, why are you not answering my question? Why are you asking for everyone to say something and then not saying something yourself? Are you waiting for something popular to come up so you can jump on it? You're playing typical scum behavior here. GOT SOMETHING TO HIDE HUH. UNVOTE: VOTE: Exilon.

This stands out to me, but I can't get a read on it.

[Bub Bidderskins]

@Exilon: First things first; if you're going to vote for me, spell my name right. That's BUB, with a "b".

So that means that somebody who says "Yes! Lynch FC & vote vote vote!" is town, while somebody who asks for the reasons behind the accusations is scum.

Assume for a moment that I'm scum, and assume that far-cry is town. I know far-cry is town, so I want him lynched. When some one comes up and says that far cry is scum, I want to support that person, regardless of his reasons. In this case, I would be town according to your trap but in actualitiy I would be scum. /end assumption

Now assume that I'm town and I don't know what far-cry is. Some one (i.e. you) just comes out of the blue and says that far-cry is scum. What do I want as town? More information. I'd ask what his reasons were for saying that far-cry is town. /end what actually happened

Of course, the person who does go on a murderous rampage could just be a village idiot, or the person who asks for info could be diplomatic scum, but we're venturing into WIFOM terrirtory here. Looks like I caught the "crap" in your trap

Do you actually think those two are scum, or did you just pick them arbitrarily?/end long theory discussion

Even though bv helped to initiate the whole thor/pacman argument, he hasn't said anything since his random vote.

@bv: what do you think of the pacman/thor thing? (sheesh, that sounds like I'm describing a messy break-up)

FakeGod also exhibited some interesting behavior earlier:

ok cool

unvote

I'll put my vote on the highest wagon after Andy gives us a VC.

Hi, Thor! Fancy seeing you here.

@FakeGod: Why would you want to do that?

[bv310]

Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Sorry, it's midterm week, so I've been neglecting my games. I'll get caught up on this one tomorrow.

[FakeGod]

@Bub: Bandwagons are major source of information. Therefore, I believe it's good idea to build one right away.

[Thor665]

I think I'll like Exilon. He's in the town basket for now.

@Bub - you said you read Pacman/Thor as townie vs. townie - why?

[Katsuki]

sig.

Hurts to read text right now... (fucked up my resolution when reinstalling)

[RedCoyote]

My thoughts: lengthening RVS only helps scum. Therefore, RedCoyote's "facetious" attempt at lengthening RVS was anti-town.

I don't think you quite understand... I was being sarcastic; that was the point.

---

If I were waiting for something popular, I wouldn't have stepped forward and claimed 'x and y is scum'. That is a) very risky move for scum, specially on early game, and b) DOING something which goes against the definition of 'waiting for something'.

But that's the things with crap-traps. They're part-crap, part good. However, there's a difference. While I'm being completely conscious about what I'm saying, besides making a claim that 'x and y is scum', the responses I got were not the same. In fact, they're actually devoid of any direct answer to that statement. To everything anyone says, other people have unconscious reactions which they are not aware of. And that's generally how scum slip, wich is what I was trying to scan.

In other words you're lecturing everyone on how pro-town you are. This sort of conceit does not strike me as particularly positive.

ROLEFISHING HUH
Why address this and not address the 'discuss' part? What is the town motivation to find a comment about one's own role more interesting than a 'x and y are scum' claim? Specially, because I wasn't the only one who commented on his own role after confirming. What is town's motivation to ask 'why are you talking about your role'?

Don't tell me what I should and shouldn't bring up. You're the one who said it. I have no interest in you shooting your mouth off about x and y being scum because I know it has no substance to it, but if you're going to wave your hands up in the air and say, "Hey guys, btw, I have a role that will get me nightkilled!!!!", then that's something the

town

should deal with. If you can't keep your mouth shut about your role like the other 11 players, then that's something the

town

will have to deal with now. Maybe you're content with assuming the scum don't notice things like that, but I, for one, play as though the scum would be able to at least pick up anything I can and then some.

---

@Bub: Bandwagons are major source of information. Therefore, I believe it's good idea to build one right away.

Do you think Bub is sweating over a vote that you just admitted is pressure-based?

[Far_Cry]

All I'm getting out of Exilon is that he is trying very hard to look town, and seems to know off the bat who scum is. I'm not getting anything that Exilon is saying up to this point. Rather than actually trying to hunt scum, it only looks like he's coming up with vague reasons to vote for other people, and is trying not to look suspicious (which he is not succeeding in doing.) Therefore, I'm keeping my vote where it is.

[StrangerCoug]

I've figured out the standout to the Far_Cry post I quoted last post—the Mr. Big Mouth tone of the post. I'm not fond of it, so I'm going to throw a

minor FoS

at him, but Exilon doesn't look pretty either and has a worse problem with it. The claim that RedCoyote is rolefishing is god-awful as well.

VOTE: Exilon. I know I said I'd let Thor vs. pacman play out, but I want to switch gears.

[FakeGod]

@Bub: Bandwagons are major source of information. Therefore, I believe it's good idea to build one right away.

Do you think Bub is sweating over a vote that you just admitted is pressure-based?

I don't know, let's see what he says.

[pacman281292]

Sorry. Distracted at catching up with other games. Post coming up tomorrow afternoon.

[Andrius]

BUMP!