Open 318: By Nomination Only (Game Over)

[Hoopla]

This post drips with scumdroplets because A) it uses big words to make it seem as though she's saying something and B) it's mind-reading.

It's just NOT a pro-town thing to do, interpreting others' reactions for your own benefit. It'd better if she had

asked

Zito about his supposed "gambit."

You must have creamed yourself when you saw Rory's opening post.

[Nobody Special]

No, I actually didn't read it.

[Hoopla]

Maybe you should give it a read. You'll love it.

[Equinox]

Vote Count 1.01

Nobody Special (4) - forest_air, Hoopla, Papa Zito, Amrun
Rory the Roman (1) - Copper
forest_air (1) - Fenchurch
zMuffinMan (1) - Twistedspoon
Copper (1) - Nobody Special
Twistedspoon (1) - VitaminR

Not Voting (2) - Rory the Roman, zMuffinMan

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

The deadline is Wednesday, July 8, 2011, at 10:28 AM EDT (UTC-4).

Mod Notes

VOTE: Mumm-Ra

This was not a valid vote.

[Twistedspoon]

Vote: twistedspoon

for being talked into an Amrun vote in a strange way.

way to read the thread comapdré
I never voted Amrun

VOTE: vitamin
btw, Amrun reads as town to me. I would have questioned the early claim had amrun not done so, and I know i'm town

Copper reads even more town

Optimal play is typically doing the opposite of what GreyICE says.

lol, what's wrong with greyice?

GreyICE suggested the optimal play would be to RNG the "normal" lynches. Thoughts?

RNG?

We have some thoughts about how to get the most utility out of the setup (that is, the mindset that should get the most value out of even days), but after discussing them in the QT we think it's best saved until tomorrow, when scum have chosen their first list. The nice thing about Nightless games is that there are no surprise deaths that take away your chance to speak.

this reads as very town to me. And this is coming from someone who doesn't like secret hydrae

NOT TRANSPARENT.

Unreadable.

Must stop posting while doing other things.

explain how copper is unreadable

VOTE: muffin
same reason as my previous forest vote

What was the reason for your forest vote? "welcome back"?

sure, a random vote. Forest has explained the 'welcome back'

as for PZ. I'll admit i would have never done a gambit like that since my mindset seemed to be the same one as Amrun had. However I now see the town motivation behind it.... i think

[Copper]

Amrun is very likely town, and damn near confirmed on a Rory/NS scumflip.

Because I suspect her somewhat, and what better way to get rid of her if she lives through today?

...by voting her today?

That they play

very well

and are transparent as any alignment.

So, you think we play italics very well close italics, and yet the 8/11's chance that a very good player is town-aligned isn't a factor? The optimal move is really to policy lynch a player simply because you can't read them?

@Copper. I think you are the one supposing, while we are the one trying to find reads. Don't try to "suppose" what our reads should be.

What are you saying here? That when you accuse someone of fake scumhunting, it's bad to assume you're calling them scum? If not Zito, then who? Your vote doesn't do anything in your pocket, and you seem awfully sensitive about being asked to take a stand.

I already answered this, but apparently you can't read. Yes, that is a very bad assumption. Just check my answer to PZ for that. And no, you don't own my vote and if you want PZ to be voted you'll have to do it yourself, because I won't until I actually see a reason to do so. If you want to know what my thoughts are about the game, follow Zito's example and ask what you can't understand. Don't try to be smarter then me and think for me because you aren't that smart.

I'm not trying to own your vote. I don't want Zito lynched. What I want is for you to take a stand, any stand, beyond "I'm amazing and everyone else is stupid."

You've called three players stupid, zero players scum, and zero players town. And

then

you have the gall to say we slow the NobodySpecial wagon until "page ten or so". Why? Like it or not, the game has begun, and you have to start voting for who you think is scum.

[Rory the Roman]

Maybe. Either you are a cheap joker who kicks the game alive at the expence of a newby

I think you're overestimating the depth of Zito's initial motivation to claim VT. I don't think it was intended to be a newbie trap - you can (maybe) logically extrapolate that the end result might only catch newbies, but I don't think Zito would have consciously known that before posting. My take was that it was pretty obviously a joke, with no intention to catch anyone.

This post drips with scumdroplets because A) it uses big words to make it seem as though she's saying something and B) it's mind-reading.

It's just NOT a pro-town thing to do, interpreting others' reactions for your own benefit. It'd better if she had

asked

Zito about his supposed "gambit."

Contrary to you, I can actually understand what Hoopla is saying. And although you might somewhere have heard that it isn't a protown thing to do to try to understand other people, you've heard wrong. Hoopla is making a lot of sense. Occams razor is applied, and the simplest explanation, that Zito simply claimed without thinking about what might happen, is found. Esspecially since Zito already hinted in post 37 that the intention had only been to get the game going.

Which means that you, NS, are seriously reaching to have a case on a very very reasonable player.

[Twistedspoon]

Vote: twistedspoon

for being talked into an Amrun vote in a strange way.

way to read the thread comapdré
I never voted Amrun

VOTE: vitamin

Just to elaborate on this point, I find it suspicious that the scummiest thing you've seen so far was something that never happened.
Was there anything else voteworthy to you? anything else you find scummy?

[Amrun]

TS: Random Number Generator

[VitaminR]

Vote: twistedspoon

for being talked into an Amrun vote in a strange way.

way to read the thread comapdré
I never voted Amrun

VOTE: vitamin
btw, Amrun reads as town to me. I would have questioned the early claim had amrun not done so, and I know i'm town

Sorry, you're right, I misread. I got Mumm-Ra mixed up with Amrun.

Unvote

for now.
But why does this make me likely scum exactly?

[VitaminR]

Vote: twistedspoon

for being talked into an Amrun vote in a strange way.

way to read the thread comapdré
I never voted Amrun

VOTE: vitamin

Just to elaborate on this point, I find it suspicious that the scummiest thing you've seen so far was something that never happened.
Was there anything else voteworthy to you? anything else you find scummy?

There are some other things, yes.

[Twistedspoon]

tell me what else you find scummy/voteworthy and we'll see

do you find PZ's gambit town? And Amrun's reaction? Do you agree with NS's logic?

[Twistedspoon]

ninja'd: I'll find out tommrow then I guess.

nighty night

[Amrun]

Ts, you were doing a joke vote for a joke version of me, so how does that warrant a vote on vitamin r?

[VitaminR]

This post drips with scumdroplets because A) it uses big words to make it seem as though she's saying something and B) it's mind-reading.

It's just NOT a pro-town thing to do, interpreting others' reactions for your own benefit. It'd better if she had

asked

Zito about his supposed "gambit."

Bleh, I kinda disagree. Hoopla probably uses big words because she's clever and I don't think this is a tell anyway. If she misinterprets, PZ can just correct it, right? I don't think there is real manipulation here.

tell me what else you find scummy/voteworthy and we'll see

do you find PZ's gambit town? And Amrun's reaction? Do you agree with NS's logic?

I did give my opinion on this, in my first post. PZ's gambit is more likely town than scum and I didn't like Amrun's reaction either (I had the same gut feeling about this as PZ). By NS's logic, do you mean the above or something else?

[forest_air]

Has Muffin even posted? His name doesn't seem to show up in the activity overview list. Just found that sort of odd...

[zMuffinMan]

Nope. And I don't plan to for a while. This game started for me after midnight last night (or this morning), and I didn't even realise it had started. Will catch up on the happenings later tonight. 1pm and somewhat busy today.

[Twistedspoon]

By NS's logic, do you mean the above or something else?

i was thinking of his suspicions of copper but it's slightly questionable in general

Ts, you were doing a joke vote for a joke version of me, so how does that warrant a vote on vitamin r?

becuase i thought he would have found something scummier to vote. It doesn't matter. Maybe the miscounted vote was misleading.
UNVOTE:
for now

[Amrun]

Why unvote if your vote had nowhere to go?

What do you think of ns, tts?

[Twistedspoon]

What do you think of ns, tts?

is this me?

well I'm not the biggest fan of his logic so far. I see no reason to suspect copper at this point and his case on hoopla scum is unconvincing and weak imho.
I'm not sure if trying to make a case this early is a scumtell or what though =|

call me inconsistent, but I actually think I need to hear more from him before I could vote

[zMuffinMan]

OK.

This is my catchup post.

Lame I may be, but foolish I'm not. Zito had a nice newby trap, and he caught, unsurprisingly, a newby. A particulary uncautious newby for jumping at such an obvious trap and for that reason not a great bandwagon to start with. I'm sure Zito can see this too. I am quite sure about this, because Zito is a very smart person who knows what "cognitive dissonance" means.

Or does he? To me it seems he just knows the words, but doesn't know their meaning. Cognitive dissonance is a theory from theoretical psychology, which states that a human will try to diminish the disparity between what he knows or believes and what he observes. Rationalization is usually the tool used for that. It's hardly applyable to the situation Zito created. Here on MS, cognitive dissonance starts to mean: "scum know more and this will seep into their normal posts". When this is read carefully, one will notice that this is exactly the opposite from what the term actually means.

Zito takes it even further, to let it mean "he says something and does something that doesn't follow from it". And then he hides it in a nice box with the label "cognitive dissonance", which has nothing to do with it. It isn't even a contradiction, for the simple reason that right from the newby games, people are told that they shouldn't claim right away. Amrum can hardly be blamed for reflexively voting Zito without thinking through. Not everybody remembers that claiming early was antitown because it gave away information to the scum.

Zito's trap never had the intention of catching scum, and zito's first serious vote is hidden by a smokescreen of syllables which most of the people can't see through.

applicable*

not applyable.

[zMuffinMan]

woo, OK, lots of stuff about VT claims. I suppose I should get my claim out of the way now.

Claim: Miller

Now that's been settled,

Fenchurch gives me all sorts of bad scum vibes. So does Hoopla.

That's all I have so far.

Anti-climactic?

VOTE: Fenchurch

[Hoopla]

Fenchurch is a beacon of towniness (as usual). Don't make me rainbow vote you.

[zMuffinMan]

How can a beacon of towniness be scum?

[zMuffinMan]

So she waffles on about claiming with conviction in real life mafia but refuses to take a stance on whether PZ actually is or isn't town because of his claim. Yeah, look closely... She never actually gives a read, it's all IIoA.

What else has she done?

Oh, that's right. Nothing.

She asks Amrun "

do you think you will be on the nomination list tomorrow?

"
She asks Twisted about his RVS vote.
She asks forest_air a general question.

Yeah, that's a summary of her scum hunting so far.

Then we get fluff about Rory that could have easily been explained by Rory itself.

Fenchurch is scummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. With 20 Ms for added emphasis.