In post 1249, Jingle wrote:
I think there is an interesting split in design in having one role be able to save on same night targeting and one only on night after targeting, is my point. I understood the original intent. I agree that your change would also have the desired effect, though.
I'll also outline your suggestion as an option in case anyone wants to run the setup that way:
alternate nerf idea - lightbearer protects from plunging into darkness, while ordinator roleblocks and prevents a death from plunging into darkness. Note that this adds some complexity to A2, which has both a lightbearer and an ordinator
might be better as 13p. I was also thinking that mafia also has a handyman who chooses their ability night 1 and has that ability for the rest of the game
Doc/Cop is an obvious choice (cop until XLO-1, then doc), so you probably want to make that a bit more interesting. It's also just more townsided than cop 9er which used to be observably balanced. Not sure if meta shifts have effected that. Tracker/Doc as the choice would be a better setup, imo. I definitely think a larger game with the handyman mechanic would be interesting, either as an open or as a core mechanic in a closed theme game.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
Is this a full small town or just roles != alignment open?
Also, am I correct in thinking that a pretender will not be told they are a pretender? If so, how are investigating pretenders given results? Naive? Paranoid? Failed action?
Just role != alignment.
Pretender will not be told they they’re pretender.
Investigative result will be random. Pool is alive_players that’s not the user + no result + multitask visit, in which case I roll for another random alive player name that is not the user.
I’m thinking of giving scum multitasking if they’re only one left.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
So, first, you have 9 roles and 9 players so real neighbors immediately confirm each others role. If you want role ambiguity there I’d make them seeking neighbors (target a player each night, if that player is a seeking neighbor they get a hood).
Overall the game seems scumsided. If tracker or doc goes to scum there just really isn’t any town power and claims are functionally worthless. There’s also like… no reason for the doc to be roaming. To that end you should probably give some of the other roles utility. I would consider a loyal checker instead of a fruit vendor and the powerful version of a hider (immune to direct actions, also affected by everything targeting their target) instead of ascetic.
Real neighbors being able to confirm each other was an intended effect.
Loyal checker works for me if the setup is scumsided as is. I don’t mind a role that can only get guaranteed inno. Idk how I feel about hider though. I originally was gonna use commuter on that slot and then I thought that in the scenario of town commuter+roleblocker+doc would be a living hell for scum. That’s why I nerfed it to ascetic so they can be at least nightkill-able. Also hider in a micro feels kinda swingy.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
The reason I suggested hider is that its a protective with scum utility, but it would indeed be swingy based on hider getting extrakilled and in hindsight doesn't really fit with the setup. Also, I really like oldschool hiders and try to shoehorn them even when it doesn't really make sense. You could also go with something that is very low investigative ability as well, something like motion detector would be good. The problem though is that you took a role that is too good for town and replaced it with a role that is bad for town when to fit with the rest of your setup it needs to be okay for town.
I'd consider making it so pretender just can't hit neighbor if you want them to mutually confirm from the beginning. It would kinda be just a feels bad moment to me to get the solo neighbor PM and be like "Hey, I got the cool role this game and it isn't gonna do anything!"
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
I suspect that that would be very slightly scumsided on the whole, but not outside of the realm of what is reasonable. I’d be willing to play a setup like that with a decent plist.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
In post 1265, RH9 wrote:
GIF, Seeking Neighbors start out by themselves, right?
And they have to find each other to gain the hood?
I'm not as pretty as GiF, but yeah, that's how seeking neighbors work. If either of them targets the other they get a hood. If you have more than two in a setup they generally just get added to one big hood and the hoods are consolidated, but they can create individual hoods if setup design calls for that. It's a pretty nifty role that lets you do neighborizor like interactions without the potential for potential protective or investigative hood shenanigans.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
It's always the same. When you fire that first shot, no matter how right you feel, you have no idea who's going to die. You don't know whose children are going to scream and burn. How many hearts will be broken. How many lives shattered. How much blood will spill, until everybody does what they're always going to have to do from the very beginning... SIT DOWN AND TALK!
Random.
Loyal checker will get either positive or negative
Investigator will get either positive, negative, or no result
Tracker one I posted it above but this
Pool is alive_players that’s not the user + no result + multitask visit, in which case I roll for another random alive player name that is not the user.
Basically randed between pool of all possible legal results. If it isn’t possible to get no result due to death of a roleblocker, then no result will no longer be randed since it is no longer a legal result.
"I used to think you had this elegant-trolly, minimalist playstyle. Then I realized the playstyle is ~Lazy~
The true enlightenment was realizing that they are the same thing."
~fferyllt
"who the fuck fakeclaims Tracker like that
WHO THE FUCK DOES THAT"
~Alisae
The Manipulator wins if they are alive at the same time the Mafia make up 50% of all living players, they are also informed of the identity of the scumteam. The Overlord wins if they are alive at the same time all the Mafia are dead. The Mafia cannot win if the Manipulator is still alive, and the Town cannot win if the Overlord is still alive.
The problem there is that evens are just worse mechanically.
With that setup you have more conftown than scum on D1 from a pr/No pr claim. That gives a 40% chance of hitting scum D1 which probably makes the game unwinnable for scum most of the time. A single successful cop result is backbreaking. Honestly even just no lim with no info treat vig as named town is probably just near unwinnable for that scum team.
In post 1273, Jingle wrote:
The problem there is that evens are just worse mechanically.
With that setup you have more conftown than scum on D1 from a pr/No pr claim. That gives a 40% chance of hitting scum D1 which probably makes the game unwinnable for scum most of the time. A single successful cop result is backbreaking. Honestly even just no lim with no info treat vig as named town is probably just near unwinnable for that scum team.
yeah not sure how I could balance it, wanted to try to create an 8 player open setup that was fun to play
I could change the town power roles to vigilante and bodyguard
