The Scummies, 2011... Live! (ish)

[Lady Lambdadelta]

For me, it doesn't really matter how different it IS, but rather how different it FEELS.
I think the players all approached it in a fresh, excited way. They played the game differently.

That's what matters (to me).

But that's not a mechanic is it?

Player action is INHERENTLY separate from Mechanics and Mutations. This can't be a factor in deciding the best Mechanic/Mutation.

I loved Team Mafia. I went in to this category thinking Team Mafia was gonna win 100%. But I approached it on a non-partial unbiased level, and was convinced to believe it wasn't worthy of the win.

[Amrun]

But there is a new mechanic in it that created that excitement in the players.

I disagree.

I understand and respect your opinion, but it is not the same as mine.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

But there is a new mechanic in it that created that excitement in the players.

I disagree.

I understand and respect your opinion, but it is not the same as mine.

I don't see how "player excitement" can be a factor in determining the "best Mechanic".

That'd be like saying the more popular/hyped a game is, the better it is. And that's just inherently not true.

[Amrun]

The new mechanic (and it WAS new, despite having basis in older mechanics, just like everything including the game that actually won) excited everyone so much that it changed how they played the game. That was the INTENT of the mechanic, not an accidental byproduct.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The new mechanic (and it WAS new, despite having basis in older mechanics, just like everything including the game that actually won) excited everyone so much that it changed how they played the game. That was the INTENT of the mechanic, not an accidental byproduct.

So you're saying the mechanic was to get everyone excited for a big new game so much that they'd act differently, thus creating the new mechanic?

So, I am to assume that the game was designed in advance to its reception, to be immensely popular, and use its status as a popular game to entice players to play differently, creating a "feeling" of a different game that is totally intentional?

I don't... Oh god. I don't even.

[Amrun]

No ... it wasn't that it was popular. It was the new player dynamics, the mechanic itself.

I'm being respectful to you. The least you could do is return the favor.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

No ... it wasn't that it was popular. It was the new player dynamics, the mechanic itself.

I'm being respectful to you. The least you could do is return the favor.

I'm sorry, I am doing my best.

That last postulation that somehow the game was designed to create player involvement as a mechanic was just so... I can't even phrase it. I'm doing my best to say something about it, but I just can't make it sound not... you know. >.>

[Amrun]

The entire point of the mechanic was to invent a new way of playing, a new meta, and new player dynamics. It succeed. That's all I'm saying.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The entire point of the mechanic was to invent a new way of playing, a new meta, and new player dynamics. It succeeded. That's all I'm saying.

And I'm saying that I don't think that the game was invented to do those things, and even if it was, that STILL wouldn't be a mechanic or mutation, but rather just the goal that all games strive for.

[zoraster]

The intent of the mechanic was to put people in situations where they were put together with friends, had pressure put on them individually to perform so they didn't let their team down, helped other teammates with their games, and compete in a different way. It was also to try to provide something that tied the community together with a major event. Consider that that was the game that mith played in last year. It was meant to be a focal point that had people strive to do things with other people in an increasingly acrimonious place. And that's why it was ultimately successful. It was ambitious in a completely different way than Strategy Mafia* was. But it still was intended to be something more than just a casual throw down of some hydras.


*I'll admit when I first started drafting Strategy Mafia I hoped it'd get some scummy love, but it was a flawed mechanic. Not tragically so -- people still had fun and it still worked after a fashion. But it was too flawed to really be a true success. There were a few easy things that could be done to fix that if a second iteration ever came around, but as it stood, it was an incredibly ambitious game that only half-worked... though you did get one of the coolest roles I've ever created, LLD. I kind of wish I had been nominated for that role.

PS. I totally should have been nominated for funniest poster for Storm of Swords. Just saying: I was hilarious.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

The intent of the mechanic was to put people in situations where they were put together with friends, had pressure put on them individually to perform so they didn't let their team down, helped other teammates with their games, and compete in a different way. It was also to try to provide something that tied the community together with a major event. Consider that that was the game that mith played in last year. It was meant to be a focal point that had people strive to do things with other people in an increasingly acrimonious place. And that's why it was ultimately as successful. It was ambitious in a completely different way than Strategy Mafia* was. But it still was intended to be something more than just a casual throw down of some hydras.


*I'll admit when I first started drafting Strategy Mafia I hoped it'd get some scummy love, but it was a flawed mechanic. Not tragically so -- people still had fun and it still worked in a fashion. But it was too flawed to really be a true success. There were a few easy things that could be done to fix that if a second iteration ever came around, but as it stood, it was an incredibly ambitious game that only half-worked... though you did get one of the coolest roles I've ever created, LLD. I kind of wish I had been nominated for that role.

PS. I totally should have been nominated for funniest poster for Storm of Swords. Just saying: I was hilarious.

Don't get me wrong, I felt that Strategy Mafia could have been done better (I mean, the odds were so against me winning that game ) but I loved the room mechanic, I loved the Chip Mechanic and I loved my role.

God did I love that BodySnatcher, Torture Room, Sadistic Skin Stealing Role.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Oh, and uh, Strategy Mafia is a good example of a "Mechanic" where as I think Team Mafia is not.

[zoraster]

hahaha well of the things that were wrong, the fact you had the odds seriously stacked against you was the least of my concern

[Llamarble]

It was really cool having so many eyes paying attention to all the games in team mafia.
That made all of them feel important, since if you did well a huge chunk of the site's best players would see.
It felt like a mafia championship.

[Choice]

I'm being respectful to you. The least you could do is return the favor.

yourewastingyourtimehere.jpg

Katsuki is a top tier player, as is Faraday. He and Faraday are nigh unreadable in different ways. One seemingly puts forth little to no effort into games and survives as few deem him a threat, while the other is fairly devious and clever, but attracts too much unnecessary attention to himself, shortening his lifespan. Both are very talented players, with very different approaches. This thread has helped shed light to quality players on the site. However, I did not find the commentary very amusinng. 2/10, improve this aspect next year and I might recommend this thread to some of my friends.

[Faraday]

My lifespan in games is usually reasonably long if I'm not hydra'ing, I think.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Katsuki is a top tier player

, as is Faraday. He and Faraday are nigh unreadable in different ways

Lulz, in regards to the bolded - WHUT?

[Choice]

Please do not belittle the achievements of other players, MagnaofNoScummies.

[Kublai Khan]

Please do not belittle the achievements of other players, MagnaofNoScummies.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Please do not belittle the achievements of other players, MagnaofNoScummies.

> Best Newbie 2011

Welp.

[MagnaofIllusion]

And back on to the topic at hand -

from a completely disconnected position as someone who wasn't a Judge -

My honest opinion is that the Cyclical Mechanic should have hands down won the category. It is by far (IMO) the most innovative change to a core Mafia game.

I love Magua but the 'Auction' mechanic had previously been done at least once (in fact I think Zoraster ran the game IRIC) and attempted in OhGodMyLife's abandoned Drinking Themed game before Magua ran it.

Team Mafia is an awesome

competition

. And I highlight the word for a reason. It's not at all a fundamental change to how the game itself is played. The extra excitement and other elements that it brought to the table have everything to do with the inherent bragging rights and much less to do with the fundamental 'change' to the game.

Cyclical (while having some set-up flaws in the initial run that were easily correctable as noted by the playerbase) introduced huge new elements in making properly reading Town as important as reading scum and also encouraging new forms of scum-hunting with the trading mechanics while retaining all normal scum-hunting elements.

The decision of the Scummies Judges is a difficult one. No chance everyone is going to agree with the decisions.

[Xalxe]

Ignore Choice, I'm p. sure he's a trollalt.

[Choice]

Please do not belittle the achievements of other players, MagnaofNoScummies.

> Best Newbie 2011

Welp.

A. Among the blind, the one-eyed man is the king.
B. Feb 2010 Join Date for 2011 scummy? He seems too experienced to be a "newbie"
C. No one cares about little league trophies
D. Based on your posts in this thread, you are the type of poster that others would not want defending them. You do him a disservice with your posts.
E. The facts that I decree are not open to debate or discussion.

Edit: I do not belittle Magna's achievements. It was a well earned scummy, and my comment was all in jest. But I stand firmly in my claim (warranted) that Katsuki is an elite player.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Please do not belittle the achievements of other players, MagnaofNoScummies.

Lulz.

Trolling alt or just clueless Newb?

Preview edit - actually I think it's another Katsuki alt Xalxe. That's the only way I can see that post appearing.

[Xalxe]

Really? Hmm.