NY 154: Return to Boring Town - Game Over

[McStab]

You yourself said it unlikely a Sala-McStab scum team exists. So if Sala is scum then I am town and vice versa according to you. If this is the case, attacking Sala (which I've been doing ALOT longer than when I was just under pressure, if you actually reread the game) does exonerate myself.

Furthermore, there hasn't BEEN a case against me apart from some small criticism RedCoyote leveled against me, in which he didn't conclusively decide I was scum. ROFL is insistent on claiming I am partners with inte; Sala is insistent on me being partners with ROFL or MoI, depending on the mood you catch him in; you are now saying I am scum with MoI, yet you are unwilling to lynch him. Yet you realize that if he is BP, now that he's out and claimed, scum won't try to kill him if he's town, and if he's scum he won't die at night. So yeah, at this point MoI's claim is really only useful in the sense that it's a named townie sort of, because for all other intents and purposes it's useless.

[havingfitz]

Mcstab....what are the 5 mislynches you claim that Sal pushed?

[RedCoyote]

i could see scum shying away from the moi hammer because of the (at least in their own head) strong likelihood that whoever hammered town-bulletproof-moi would be strung up immediately the following day.

I could see that too, but, I mean, it's not like they're exactly in the best of positions with all the confirmed town. Further, I suspect if they got rid of MoI, that's one less rational person around. Plus, it's not as if he was at L-1 for a few minutes. It lasted a long time, and it actually happened twice today!

Once was Toon, inte, Vel, and Sal (top of page 32; McStab did

not

hammer; it lasted 3 hours until MoI claimed)

The second time was Vel, fitz, Toon, and Sal (post 906; inte and McStab did

not

hammer; it lasted

3 days

until Sal unvoted)

Both of these things seem to put McStab as the most guilty party (assuming MoI is scum), followed by inte.

on the other hand though the conspiracy theorist in me thinks that moi is basically forced by burden of proficiency and his "has been killed night 1" title (i wonder if he regrets getting that in hindsight? i could see it becoming an argument against him as scum or used against him by scum more than just in this game) to claim something that explains why on god's green earth he's still alive in an endgame as tumultuous as this.

That's valid too. It was

very

strange that a player like Shattered Viewpoint was shot N1. It was kind of random. I could think of at least 5 better kills than that, MoI included. IAI would have known better at the very least. And there's absolutely nothing to suggest that Shattered Viewpoint was a PR.

rofl, I've got to say, I think I'm really convincing myself MoI is scum here.

---

Inte was on the wagon at the time MoI was L-1. McStab attempted to create a counter-wagon at the time. I'm just not sure about him.

It happened twice, Sal. See above.

The fact that you don't think MoI killed McQueen is stupid. There aren't any references to him other than the MoI vote. And given that no one mentioned it, I am willing to bet MoI killed McQueen.

This argument is more one of meta than anything else. I've never played with you three, but from what I know of how MoI operates, that man would've had to really hold his nose to take part in killing mcqueen if only due to the sake of play propriety. The scum had two confirmed townies (three if you include fitz, but I know you wouldn't).

Further, I do see your point in the sense that mcqueen was unpredictable and had previously gotten on MoI's case big time. Because of that, it leads me to believe that MoI could've potentially seen that as a threat. Whereas he felt more confident he could've controlled Vel/Toon.

---

My bet is on MoI-McStab, but I wouldn't discar the other possibilities. However, I think our best lynch for today is McStab. Getting him lynched will pretty much confirm MoI as scum (or inte, as a worst case scenario. I don't believe in a McStab-Sala team). If he IS town, then I advocate we look at Sala next.

You know something, I think you may be right, Toon. I very much doubt Sal and McStab are aligned. We've got four players.

MoI-Sal
MoI-McStab
MoI-inte
Sal-McStab
Sal-inte
McStab-inte

The remaining scum are one of those groups. I'm willing to bet the game on that. Of those groups, I think we can eliminate Sal-McStab. McStab has so much been on Sal's case this game. I mean, from early D2 on. And I think it has been more than just distancing too. Because how can he be sure, say, on D2 or D3 that people wouldn't have gangpiled on Sal? It might have left him looking good, but to crazy bus your third scumpartner after losing two on D1? That's a tough pill to swallow.

The only problem is, I can still theoretically see a bunch of other connections. So, if we do this, I think we have to follow through based on the Pres lynch on D1 (and effectively eliminate one other pairing).

MoI and Sal were

on

the D1 lynch.
McStab and inte were

off

the D1 lynch.

If we lynch McStab, and he flips scum: We lynch MoI and hopefully win.
If we lynch McStab and he flips town: We lynch inte and say a prayer that the entire scumteam was not on the D1 wagon (which I think is fairly reasonable).

The only other problem I see with this is that I could theoretically see inte as a partner to either Sal or MoI. But I guess we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

---

I have no idea why mcqueen was NK'd. I'm not even sure if I could come up with a reason that would equate to WIFOM. it made no sense to me.

Do you know much about MoI? I've seen him take gambits as town, but generally not as scum.

---

in wat way would my "ignorance/arrogance" lead to killing mcqueen?

You had replaced into this game. Plus you're headstrong. I could see it. And the second sentence you wrote just confirms my suspicions. You considered him confirmed town. Well, lol, hate to break it to you, but there were two townies that were

actually

confirmed by Toog. Plus fitz. So, really, in no way should mcqueen have taken priority over them in a vaccum.

Because of that, I think it's very important to analyze who would make that kill. mcqueen was killed because either the scum thought they couldn't control him as well as Vel/VE/Toon, or because they weren't good enough attention to the game.

---

Terribly sorry about that. I can't believe I missed that. Updating now.

Nah, it's okay. I'm over it. Apology accepted!

---

To answer his question, Sala is WAY over the other two, and then inte, and then MoI. If that looks like I'm defending MoI, then newsflash, I am. Both times he's been pushed to L-1 today have been the result of the shittiest votes ever, and they've been pushed by players who've led the town down countless mislynches.

The thing is, McStab, shitty votes they may or may not be, he still wasn't hammered. Not once, but twice. And we're not talking a few hours. We're talking days the man sat at L-1.

The scum had ample time to take that lynch. And we know for a fact that both scum were not on that wagon because Vel and Toon (and fitz) were riding it.

So you know what you're asking me to do, McStab? You're asking me to believe that the scum couldn't come up with a way to reasonably hammer a claimed BP over the course of 3 days, you, rofl, and inte all checking in during that time, as he sat at L-1. I just cannot buy that. Given the circumstances of this setup, that was the dream wagon for scum today (if MoI is town).

RedCoyote, I appeal to you to look closely at Sala's behaviour throughout this game, the Votecounts on each townlist, and his opportunistic jumps throughout today. Of particular to note is his L-1 vote on MoI WITHOUT A SINGLE WORD SAID. Or his sudden change from "ROFL Conf. scum" to ROFL town McStab/MoI scumteam. This is after MoI claims Bulletproof and I start attacking him.

He's lining up mislynches on his main attacker for NO valid reason and MoI, the claimed Bulletproof.

If I get lynched today as opposed to Sala, it's an outright travesty of justice.

This whole thing this strikes me as a desperate plea, especially that last line. I think what seals it for me is that last time MoI was at L-1. Scum could not have asked for a better situation than that. The could've ran roughshod over the rest of the game if townMoI was lynched there.

You yourself said it unlikely a Sala-McStab scum team exists. So if Sala is scum then I am town and vice versa according to you. If this is the case, attacking Sala (which I've been doing ALOT longer than when I was just under pressure, if you actually reread the game) does exonerate myself.

I see what you're doing here, McStab. Other than saving yourself, you want this situation because, should we lynch Sal and he flip scum, tomorrow you'll come back still defending MoI (and likely suggesting we lynch inte).

No, what we need to do is use two things, well, three things, to end this game:

• Accept that rofl is town (or that if he's scum he basically earned his win by playing well and being at the right place and the right time).
  
• Accept that McStab and Sal is the least likely possible scumteam (or that if they're scum together, they basically earned their win by playing well and keeping themselves distant enough to fool us).
  
• Lynch based on the D1 wagon results. (This essentially eliminates one final partnership. Either MoI-Sal or McStab-inte. I think we clearly eliminate MoI-Sal due to the fact that that would be putting every scum member on the Pres lynch D1.)

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP:

If we lynch McStab, and he flips scum: We lynch MoI and hopefully win.
If we lynch McStab, and he flips town: We lynch inte and say a prayer that the entire scumteam was not on the D1 wagon (which I think is fairly reasonable).

The only other problem I see with this is that I could theoretically see inte as a partner to either Sal or MoI. But I guess we can cross that bridge when we come to it.

[havingfitz]

What gambit are you referring to RC wrt MOI and mcqueen? I haven't ISOd mcqueen but I note that other than D2 he had no voting activity in MOIs direction. Too distant IMO to be connected to a N4 nk in favor of ~3 conf-townies.

I see more material in support of a MOI wagon. McStab would be my 2nd option.

[havingfitz]

zzzzzzzzzzz

[roflcopter]

the fact that moi is active in other threads but totally missing in this one recently is really starting to make me paranoid

[Salamence20]

Rofl, that makes him more town actually.

Scum MoI would be bitching us out

[havingfitz]

MOI = scum. FFS people....execute a lynch please.

[Nocmen]

Prodding MoI

[Salamence20]

VOTE: McStab

[McStab]

You've voted me three times, so unless you're some sort of unclaimed triple voter your gimmick is getting old

[inte]

literally there isn't a clear step on what to do today

[Salamence20]

Emphasis.

[McStab]

Vote: Salamence

Vote:Salamence

Vote:Salamence

....just trying to be emphatic

[inte]

can we get some more support for a sala lynch? MoI can come tomorrow

[Salamence20]

McStab, you will die tomorrow if I die today.

When I flip town, who is the scumteam?

If you really are town,I would be pushing MoI right now

[roflcopter]

well i've got all three of you guys on /ignore until redcoyote makes a decision

[RedCoyote]

rofl, I really think MoI being at L-1 so long seals it for me. I don't think he can make a valid argument in his defense either. There were three town on that wagon. The scum would've gotten rid of, arguably, the fiercest living town player. The day had played on long enough at that point. At that point Vel/VE weren't even paying attention to the game. Toon was sporadic as well. They could've ran with it going into D6. rofl, if you can reasonably tell me how scum could've gotten a more perfect lynch than that MoI wagon earlier today, then I will drop the issue. But anyway I slice it in my mind, there was just no reason for MoI not to have been hammered there if he was town.

Additionally, of the four remaining people I'm considering (Sal, MoI, inte, and McStab), Sal seems like the least likely to be scum. Despite his consistently bad play, I feel like his transparency and self-doubt are probably more likely to be coming from him as town than scum.

With inte and McStab, I'd learn toward McStab as scum, but it's more of a tossup with those two. And I do think the scumteam is 1 of MoI & Sal and 1 of McStab & inte.

So, after debating this in my mind and talking with everyone, my lynch preference is MoI > McStab > inte > Sal.

With that,

vote: MagnaOfIllusion

[RedCoyote]

EBWOP: With inte and McStab, I'd

lean

toward McStab as scum, but it's more of a tossup with those two.

My keyboard has been acting up after I was beating on it the other night.

[Salamence20]

VOTE: MoI

[RedCoyote]

What gambit are you referring to RC wrt MOI and mcqueen? I haven't ISOd mcqueen but I note that other than D2 he had no voting activity in MOIs direction. Too distant IMO to be connected to a N4 nk in favor of ~3 conf-townies.

I just mean that I don't know how likely it would've been that MoI would've executed that kill on mcqueen with the other confirmed townies out there. It would be taking a bold chance. Sure, as inte claims, mcqueen was thought of as pretty solidly town. But, I mean, he was mostly thought of as town for being on the Pres lynch. Hell, Sal, MoI, and rofl were all on that lynch as well.

Personally I thought mcqueen was in a pretty good position as I read through the game, but the fact remains that he was not confirmed. The scum were taking a risk to kill off mcqueen. My initial reaction to that was that the scum had to be not paying close enough attention to the game for that kill to go through. As I think more about it though, that sounds pretty far fetched. More likely he was purposefully killed because the scum was worried he would come after one or both of them. Of the remaining players, who would you say mcqueen's most likely target would be? Let me show you a few snippets from mcqueen. You tell me who should feel most threatened by him:

I have no interest in reading long as hell posts, cough cough MagnaOfIllusion cough cough, who only end up making a dopey, shit vote.

@MagnaOfIllusion - No.

VOTE: MagnaOfIllusion

And, for fucks sake MagnaOfIllusion, I'm not reading 1 fucking more of your endless wall posts. Yea, ok, I made 4 or 5 posts here, but even if you connect them, they are like one fourth as long as one of your posts.

Ok, I had the thought of Salamence20, Empking, and roflcopter being town. To be honest, none are very scummy

P-Edit - Salamence20 is town. Since you switched to Arugula, not VE, I assume you're on the same page as me, therefore bumping my read of you up a bit. I honestly just wanted to lynch you for information, but I don't think that's required anymore.

MagnaofIllusion, why shouldn't he answer it? What problem do you have with questioning someone's play? Especially when it's not you being questioned, nor the one questioning?

They get into another argument in post 604 & 607.

Bottom line, they were never very close to one another throughout the game. mcqueen was on record as liking both Sal & rofl for town as well.

[Toon Fighter]

OK good enough for me. I'd prefer to see McStab lynched today, but MoI is good too.

vote: MoI

[inte]

L-1 i believe

ill give it another day before i hammer

[Nocmen]

Vote Count

Salamence20 - 2( McStab, inte)
MagnaOfIllusion -4 (havingfitz,RedCoyote ,Salamence20, ToonFighter)

Not Voting - 2 (MagnaOfIllusion, roflcopter)

8 Alive, takes 5 to Lynch