Open 438: Masons and Mafia - Game Over

[Hyperion]

VOTE: GreyGnarl

[McStab]

Greynarl is throwing his vote all over the place.
note posts 356 357 and 358. He votes Seil AFTER DJD, and i think he is distancing

Any comment at all on the Greywing case, Hyp?

[greygnarl]

After doing a reread of Hyp his early game play looks pretty town. No longer willing to lynch.

Doing a reread of GW now with the rest coming after.
I'm on my 3ds so no long posts.

[greygnarl]

Greywing is null for me. Nothing he does looks really scummy but he also doesn't give off strong scum vibes.

McStab looks scum to me.

[greygnarl]

Sorry, some of my post was lost.

You might think that there's no way a scum would start a counter wagon off an easy lynch but that would give him strong town points if noone hops on and PB flips town. Gaining town points is obviously something he's thinking about if you read his argument against Greywing. After PB flipped town Greywing would be lynched and with their flips he would be able to find the last two masons.

[greygnarl]

My argument looks weak as hell now that I think about it. I wouldn't actual call him scum but it's something to think about.

Also, if it wasn't clear before I think DJD is town.

[greygnarl]

Though at the start Pasch was one of my main scumreads everything he says afterwards makes good sense. His last few posts were well thought out and very informed.

Read:Town.

Even though I have a case against McStab it's just as weak as his against Greywing.

Best move?

Vote:Pressed Bunson

Waiting for a replacement would draw out the game unnecessarily. If she's town I guess I'd vote McStab but he is pretty much a null read for me now. My case against him makes no sense in hindsight.

[McStab]

Your "case" against me is manufactured. How do I know this?

Your case against me is dependent on PB being town and Greywing being town. You then settle on voting for PB, even if he is town (which, if you really think I'm guilty, he is), because you don't want to draw out the game unnecessarily. Longer conversation is good for the town, even in this setup. No need to quicklynch someone on the basis of PoE when we have a handful of mislynches we could afford.

Also, how is my case against Greywing weak? Find some flaw in that. Find me a way that mafia don't fall for the bait, that he somehow has been town despite not having voted ONCE for one of the three confirmed scum, and all of them essentially saying he's town in every post they mention him?

[greygnarl]

I know my case is bad and that is why I said it is terribly weak.

However, I must have missed the part about every scum so far calling him town. I saw where you said he never voted for them though. I have to say the more I think about it the more it makes sense. I'd like to here what Greywing and the others have to say about it though.

I don't see anything wrong with a PB lynch though as I am not really onboard with Greywing is obvscum.

[Greywing]

McStab makes a great case. It's wrong, but it's a great case.

Tell you what, if we lynch PB and he flips Town, lynch me next. I'll self vote as well.

[maxwell]

Vote Count

• Pressed Bunson (3)
  : Greywing DoubleJD greygnarl
  
• Greywing (1)
  : McStab
  
• greygnarl (1)
  : Hyperion
  
• Not voting:
  Paschendale Pressed Bunson

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

[DoubleJD]

PB is the best choice, becasue there isnt any evidence saying he isnt scum. Every other player has evidence for them being town, and id rather not equip my tinfoil hat for other players until i have to.

[Paschendale]

McStab's case on Greywing is interesting. But I think there's a hole in it. Whiskers might have been going along with it in the hopes that he would make it clearer. That is, get him to out himself in a more certain way. Especially once PG flipped town. I keep wondering who each Mafia has been trying to kill when they die. At the time, it seemed like Greywing was the obvious target for Whiskers' shot. My biggest curiosity after this game is to find out who each of the scum died trying to kill.

Isn't PB being replaced? She just got replaced in another game I'm in for not posting at all, just like here. It seems to just be that she joined some games and just hasn't shown up since. A quick look at her recent posts shows that the last one was on the 9th, and she seems to be in several other games at the moment. I think it's simple absence, rather than lurking. As such, maybe we should let a replacement say something before we kill the slot.

Or should we? There's one scum left out of seven players. Two of the remaining six are masons. With no night kill... I think scum is pretty seriously screwed. Pretty much the only way we're going to lose is if it gets to just the scum and masons being alive. Still... we need all the townies we can get, since if it gets down to just the scum and the masons, we lose.

No, I think killing PB is not the right move. Especially when there's people I actually think are scum. And doubly so when that scumread is voting to kill PB.

Vote: Greygnarl

[Greywing]

Umm...no. Seil's flip pretty much clears GG.

[Paschendale]

Umm...no. Seil's flip pretty much clears GG.

Explain?

[Greywing]

GG's been a major "scum read" of his for ages now, along with JD.

[Greywing]

Also, Whiskers pushed him hard too.

[Paschendale]

Votes by our confirmed scum:

-Sala-

Votes DJD in RVS
Unvotes once he believes RVS is over
Votes Om (mason) for buddying with Whiskers (scum)
Votes for McStab, largely for OMGUS seeming reasons, also possibly as self defense
Final vote for himself

Not much to read here, but I think Post 157 is a little early to be trying to bus a teammate. Especially when he then implicates Om and Whiskers based on McStab flipping mafia. Suppose Sala had survived, and we had killed McStab. Sala had lined up one of his own teammates (Whiskers) in this process. I think he knew that McStab wouldn't flip scum.

-Whiskers-

Initial comment: Whiskers had me pretty well fooled. My hat is generally off to Whiskers' play, so this is where I think it will be hardest and most rewarding to search for clues.

Votes Om in RVS
Goes along with others' attacks on Greywing, and seems to be voting just to follow the pack
Unvotes a little later
Votes Sala, putting on the 4th vote. << This is bussing here
Whiskers never votes again after this

-Seilkops-

RVS votes for PB
Unvotes later on, since more than 100 posts have gone by since his first vote
Puts the 4th vote on PG
Doesn't vote again until the wagon on him is starting to build, votes Greygnarl

Conclusions: Our scum seem not to be voting very often. Possibly playing it safe since they need to lynch townies and can't rely on night kills to get their work done. They also have largely noted voted for each other, save Whiskers' one bus moment on Sala, joining the very popular wagon for towncred.

Sala's early vote on McStab doesn't look like a distancing attempt. Their conflict looks genuine.

Post 43 is a bit early for attempting to bus, so I think Whiskers' vote on Greywing was legit as well. It's weakly reasoned, but isn't trying to look too much like just following the pack.

Which leads me to Seil's vote on Greygnarl...

Note: I have been writing this while the previous few posts have been going on between myself and Greywing.

Greygnarl has not been playing like the 3 confirmed scum. He's been voting more, and playing generally more recklessly. This is a good towntell on him, and the main reason why I'm reconsidering my vote on him.

Seil's vote on Greygnarl was his last post before shooting someone. And then Greygnarl voted for Seil. When Seil voted, he couldn't have known he was toast. I was the only one voting for him. And then Greygnarl posts against Seil, but doesn't vote for him. Then DJD votes. Had Gnarl left it alone, Seil might be alive, though I would likely have gone after Gnarl, so one of them would have been targeted. Are they both trying to bus each other? Scum is down to the wire here. Maybe they both wanted the strongest town position they could so they could hunt down the remaining masons and try to survive. Or maybe I'm chasing shadows.

The situation I find myself in is that I see town reasons for everyone. Just less so for Greygnarl. He's still my top suspect... of the people we know stuff about. Let's just get PB out of the way so we can move on. If I'm wrong, then we win. If I'm right, then it'll be much easier to pursue better targets once PB is out of the picture.

Vote: PB

@Greywing: I don't think Whiskers or Seil were pursuing Gnarl as strongly as you seem to. Seil only did it at the very end. Whiskers criticized Gnarl, but never pursued him enough to warrant a vote. It's there, but Whiskers was going after a lot of people. I don't think that exonerates Gnarl.

[Greywing]

Fair enough, Pasch. I remember Whiskers going after GG, but after a quick re-read, it wasn't as much as I originally remember. There were a couple of posts attacking GG, but it seems she was trying to subtly push for McStab a bit more without fully committing herself.

I think it's irrelevant though at this point, as I'm pretty sure we just won this game.

[Paschendale]

Fair enough, Pasch. I remember Whiskers going after GG, but after a quick re-read, it wasn't as much as I originally remember. There were a couple of posts attacking GG, but it seems she was trying to subtly push for McStab a bit more without fully committing herself.

I think it's irrelevant though at this point, as I'm pretty sure we just won this game.

What an anti-climactic end...

[DoubleJD]

Heh, i had fun. Tried a new style this game and nailed 2 scum with it. Shouldnt have backed off of sala, but whatevs.

[maxwell]

Vote Count

• Pressed Bunson (4)
  : Greywing DoubleJD greygnarl Paschendale
  
• Greywing (1)
  : McStab
  
• greygnarl (1)
  : Hyperion
  
• Not voting:
  Pressed Bunson

With 7 alive it is 4 to lynch.

Pressed Bunson has been lynched. She was a

townie

.

Vote count and deadline have been reset.

Vote Count

• Not voting:
  DoubleJD Hyperion Paschendale Greywing McStab greygnarl

With 6 alive it is 4 to lynch.

Deadline is August 27 at 4 PM EST.

[greygnarl]

Goddamn. I have no clue. My McStab read looks weaker every time I read it and everybody else seems so town. Maybe McStab is right about Greywing. Four more mislynches before scum can win.

[McStab]

Goddamn. I have no clue. My McStab read looks weaker every time I read it and everybody else seems so town. Maybe McStab is right about Greywing. Four more mislynches before scum can win.

I'm still waiting for Greywing's self-vote. Don't think it buys him any towncred by claiming he'll self-vote if PB flips town. His only response to my case was "It's great but it's wrong".

Vote: Greywing

[McStab]

I'm also 99% sure that the last scum is in the group of Greywing, greygnarl and Pasch (in order from scummiest to most town). Unsure on Hyperion but his absence from the PB wagon is a huge townmark, and I'd eat my shoe if DJD flips scum.