Open 457: Double Day Unlimited - GAME OVER!

CF Riot
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Post Post #0  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:39 am

Open 457:
Double Day Unlimited


Full Cast
[01] buldermar
[02] drmyshotgun ChaosOmega
[03] Empking
[04] Mr.K
[05] Rainbowdash
[06] shos
[07] uctriton00
[08] Venrob
[09] Voidedmafia

Spoiler: Active Players
buldermar
shos
Voidedmafia
* indicates a prod

Spoiler: Flips
Venrob - vanilla townie lynched Day 1a.
Rainbowdash - vanilla townie lynched Day 1b.
uctriton00 - vanilla townie shot Night 1.
Empking - vanilla townie lynched Day 2a.
drmyshotgun - mafia goon lynched Day 2b.
Mr.K - vanilla townie shot Night 2.

Last edited by CF Riot on Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:10 pm, edited 17 times in total.

CF Riot
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Post Post #1  (ISO)  » Wed Oct 17, 2012 2:40 am

Rule-set
This game is using the Double Day Unlimited setup and will run using the following rules.

[01] Votes must be in the format vote: <Playername> or VOTE: <Playername>.
[02] Unvotes must be in the format unvote: <Playername> or UNVOTE: <Playername>. Note: Even if you are currently only voting one person, typing only unvote will not be accepted. You must specify for the unvote to count, however unvote: all is acceptable to remove all current votes.
[03] Lynches require a simple majority of votes. You also have the option of a "no lynch" by the same simple majority. Once the required number of votes has been reached the player will then be considered hammered and unvotes will not undo this. Players may post after they have been hammered until a lynch scene is posted. After this scene is posted however, dead players may no longer post. This includes "bah" posts.
[04] After the first lynch of a day occurs all votes will be reset and the game will enter day phase two. After the second lynch of a day occurs the thread will be locked and enter night.
[05] Each day phase will have a posted two week deadline. Each night will have a posted three day deadline. The official deadline for any phase will occur only once I post acknowledging such however. (The bell doesn't dismiss you, I dismiss you.)
[06] If a majority vote is not reached before the official deadline of a day phase, that phase will end with no lynch.
[07] If you do not post at least once in a rolling 72 hour window you will be prodded. Once the prod is sent the player has an additional 48 hours to post in thread. If a player does not post after this 48 hour extension, or if any player must be prodded more than three times during the game, that player will be replaced.
[08] In an attempt to prevent thread stagnation and/or determination of alignment due to inactive players, all living players must submit a PM to me during the night confirming their presence. If any player(s) have not met this nighttime check-in requirement before the deadline, the thread will remain locked. The unresponsive player(s) will have a 24 hour grace period in which to respond, then replacement will occur. The game will remain in night until a replacement is found for all inactive slots. In the unfortunate event that a replacement cannot be found after a significant period, that slot will be modkilled in order to allow the game to continue.
[09] Quoting private communication in thread is not allowed and will result in a modkill.
[10] Discussing game related information outside of the game thread is not allowed and will result in a modkill.
[11] Being unreasonably offensive towards other players is not allowed and will result in one warning, then forced replacement.
[12] This ruleset is not all-inclusive. Any unforeseen event that occurs which I feel requires mod-intervention will be handled as I see fit. In this game, mod = god and all rulings are final. If you have an issue with any part of my moderation of the game, you are welcome to address this privately via PM, NOT in the game thread.

Sample Roles

Town Role PM wrote:Welcome, <Player Name>. You are a Vanilla Townie.

Your only ability is your vote, but unlike normal games, your vote is a little stronger as you may vote for as many different players at once as you'd like.
Win condition: You win when all the mafia are eliminated.

Please confirm by PMing me with your role. Game thread is here.
Mafia Role PM wrote:Welcome, <Player Name>. You are a Mafia Goon, along with your partner, <Player Name>.

During the night phase, you may talk to your partner here. Each night phase, you and your partner may choose one player in the game to kill.
Win condition: You win when your faction controls 50% of the town.

Please confirm by PMing me with your role. Game thread is here.
Last edited by CF Riot on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:32 pm, edited 4 times in total.

CF Riot
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Post Post #2  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:30 pm

All confirmations received. Day 1a is a go. Good luck everyone.

Empking
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Post Post #3  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:35 pm

Vote: Chaos -We need order if we want to win.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi

Voidedmafia
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Post Post #4  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:40 pm

Vote Chaos

Amen to that.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

Rainbowdash
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Post Post #5  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:01 pm

So important theory type thing in this setup - large amount of votes out are anti-town in nature. If you MUST have multiple out it needs to be explicitly clear who your top suspect is.

Vote Venrob

Also rule 8? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. If this is a problem please see rule 12.
You don't earn loyalty in a day. You earn it day by day

buldermar
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Post Post #6  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:40 pm

I don't do random votes fwiw.

shos
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Post Post #7  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:36 pm

VOTE: Buldermar

caught scum post 6 so scummy mcscum
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.

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Post Post #8  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:08 pm

In post 5, Rainbowdash wrote:So important theory type thing in this setup - large amount of votes out are anti-town in nature. If you MUST have multiple out it needs to be explicitly clear who your top suspect is.

Vote Venrob

Also rule 8? Seriously?

Yes, seriously. If this is a problem please see rule 12.

To be more specific, don't put out more than 2 votes at a time. I mean, RVS is fine, but to increase responsibility for your votes only 2 are really needed.

buldermar: Of course you don't.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

Rainbowdash
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Post Post #9  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:04 pm

In post 8, Voidedmafia wrote:To be more specific, don't put out more than 2 votes at a time. I mean, RVS is fine, but to increase responsibility for your votes only 2 are really needed.


Even two votes are borderline bad. The more votes the more chaos and confusion and thats something that helps scum far more than town in just about any situation.

One vote. If you must have more you absolutely have down who is your top suspect.
You don't earn loyalty in a day. You earn it day by day

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Post Post #10  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:28 pm

In post 9, Rainbowdash wrote:
In post 8, Voidedmafia wrote:To be more specific, don't put out more than 2 votes at a time. I mean, RVS is fine, but to increase responsibility for your votes only 2 are really needed.


Even two votes are borderline bad. The more votes the more chaos and confusion and thats something that helps scum far more than town in just about any situation.

One vote. If you must have more you absolutely have down who is your top suspect.

Eh, I think two votes are fine for a top 2 kind of thing. It didn't hinder town in the previous two (non-Micro) runs of this setup.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

Rainbowdash
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Post Post #11  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:41 pm

The problem with two votes is it makes analysis harder as unless its very explicit it can be hard to tell who actually somepony has as a top suspect or anything like that. Even then it can allow for a misrepresentation of wagons in the long run, especially if some players take to throwing out a large amount of votes.
You don't earn loyalty in a day. You earn it day by day

Voidedmafia
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Post Post #12  (ISO)  » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:51 pm

Unless people are seriously lost as to another scumread, I doubt that that would be a problem (the top suspect part).
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

uctriton00
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Post Post #13  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:36 am

Hello.

Vote: RainbowDash

Whenever I see you talk about setup, I think it's scummy.

Sample set of 1.
"Also the town owes uctriton an apology for throwing him under the bus." - RXK
"I hate whoever shot triton." - Bumi

Voidedmafia
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Post Post #14  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:58 am

In post 13, uctriton00 wrote:Hello.

Vote: RainbowDash

Whenever I see you talk about setup, I think it's scummy.

Sample set of 1.

Why would that be? Isn't it best to think about how the setup works and all the possibilities?
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

Empking
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Post Post #15  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:58 am

I think Uct is onto something at least at this point.

Unvote, Vote: Rainbow
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi

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Post Post #16  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:46 am

In post 13, uctriton00 wrote:Hello.

Vote: RainbowDash

Whenever I see you talk about setup, I think it's scummy.

Sample set of 1.


Its why I play opens, they can be optimized. That particular setup though was replacing into an almost impossible situation and therefore my only option being breaking the setup so badly that it is no longer an open allowing a prayer chance of winning for doing so.

But I love breaking down setups, town or scum. If we know what is right it limits chance of stupidity injuring us.
You don't earn loyalty in a day. You earn it day by day

buldermar
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Post Post #17  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:05 am

In post 11, Rainbowdash wrote:The problem with two votes is it makes analysis harder as unless its very explicit it can be hard to tell who actually somepony has as a top suspect or anything like that. Even then it can allow for a misrepresentation of wagons in the long run, especially if some players take to throwing out a large amount of votes.
I don't see an issue with multiple votes. In fact, I think that yields more information on avarage than do only one.

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Post Post #18  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:34 am

I think that 2-3 votes are fine too. anything more will just be useless(half the town being voted) but yeah, you understand.
In post 836, Lucky2u said:
Rule # 5h05: players should not attempt to use or manipulate the mod for any purpose.

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Post Post #19  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:35 am

While I doubt I'll go past 1 vote myself, I also don't think 2-3 votes is necessarily anti-town. Of course that heavily depends on the manner of votes as well.

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Post Post #20  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:45 am

Empking, just letting you know your unvote doesn't count according to the rules.

vote: Rainbowdash
vote: buldermar
vote: shos


Rainbowdash:
Rainbowdash wrote:But I love breaking down setups, town or scum. If we know what is right it limits chance of stupidity injuring us.

Well that's awfully altruistic of you to do as scum. I'm not saying you wouldn't do this setup analysis regardless of alignment, I just want to know what your actual reason would be for doing it as scum.

buldermar:
buldermar wrote:I don't see an issue with multiple votes. In fact, I think that yields more information on avarage than do only one.

Do you follow the converse, that forcing players to one vote only limits information? If so, do you think Rainbowdash is scummy for pushing that belief?

shos:
shos wrote:VOTE: Buldermar

caught scum post 6 so scummy mcscum

Was that a random vote? If not, why is not random voting scummy?
Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive, so nobody listens!

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Post Post #21  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:49 am

Unvote: all, Vote: Rainbowdash
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi

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Post Post #22  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:26 pm

In post 19, Mr.K wrote:While I doubt I'll go past 1 vote myself, I also don't think 2-3 votes is necessarily anti-town. Of course that heavily depends on the manner of votes as well.

3 votes is too many. 2 votes is the maximum that should be allowed (and ideally you should indicate which of those two is on your main suspect). Again, having any more than that dilutes your responsibility for a lynch and can allow people to backtrack and say, "well, he was only my secondary or tertiary suspect!"

To also quote CES from the 1st run of this setup:
Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Having 2 votes to use frees you up to do some interesting things. More votes than that and responsibility gets diluted.


Unfortunately Dashie and I are just gonna have to agree to disagree on the number of votes allowed.

On that note, I like my vote on Chaos.
2011 scummies winner (BTS help) and participant;
coming back to Mafia...slowly. Keep an eye for me as a mod.
Also keep an eye for setup review requests.

buldermar
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Post Post #23  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:31 pm

In post 20, ChaosOmega wrote:buldermar:
buldermar wrote:I don't see an issue with multiple votes. In fact, I think that yields more information on avarage than do only one.

Do you follow the converse, that forcing players to one vote only limits information? If so, do you think Rainbowdash is scummy for pushing that belief?
Yes, forcing players to one vote limits information (and, as such, advocating this limitation is anti-town behavior). I think that some (perhaps many) players here are incapable of making proper adjustments to the game theory optimal for "conventional" setups. On this same token, I don't currently have reason to believe that Rainbowdash isn't advocating a personal misconception of proper game theory (as opposed to deliberately misleading town).

What is your incentive for voting me?

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Post Post #24  (ISO)  » Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:35 pm

In post 20, ChaosOmega wrote:
Rainbowdash wrote:But I love breaking down setups, town or scum. If we know what is right it limits chance of stupidity injuring us.

Well that's awfully altruistic of you to do as scum. I'm not saying you wouldn't do this setup analysis regardless of alignment, I just want to know what your actual reason would be for doing it as scum.


Thats really easy - predictabilty.

While optimizing setups tends to give town a better win chance, doing the same thing makes the game follow more of a set path which eliminates most chances of a really random play impacting chances as scum. Ive seen horrible logic moves win games before, and im willing to essentially give up a few percent points as scum to avoid swing.

@Chaos - Are your votes random? If not why?
You don't earn loyalty in a day. You earn it day by day

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