Newbie Setup (Matrix6 implemented)

[UberNinja]

Newbie Setup Ideas (any combination of these together in a "pot" which the list mod could choose from):

1 DoctorCop (one or the other, each night)
1 Backup DoctorCop (unknown to himself)
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
5 VTs

OR

1 Doctor
1 Macho Cop
1 Mafia Roleblocker
1 Mafia Goon
5 VTs

OR

1 Tracker
1 1-shot Vigilante
2 Mafia Goons
5 VTs

OR

1 Cop
1 Mafia Godfather
1 Mafia Goon
6 VTs

OR

1 Cop
1 Mafia Rolecop
1 Mafia Goon
1 Commuter
5 VTs


Any of those tickle any of your fancies?

[UberNinja]

Punishes fakeclaims heavily, as a claim from a certain power role can immediately tie down which setup you're playing. (Then again, the scum will know 3/5 of the time exactly which setup is in play from their own power roles.)

Well maybe not THOSE, TOGETHER... but in general. What do you think of the balance of each, separately?

And yeah I knew there'd be Godfather hate. Buuuut, maybe Newbie games could stand to be 3/8 instead of 2/7. That way you're not totally screwed if one of the mafia is an asshat newbie.

[UberNinja]

CRAZY IDEA ALERT

How about closing the Road to Rome entirely, and moving all newbie traffic to Central Park and Little Italy?

Sounds crazy on face, but hear me out! There would still be a Newbie Queue, which would be optional, but it'd work much differently.

Newbies would come to the site, register in the newbie queue, and they'd be paired up with a more experienced player (SE/ICs could remain the same essentially, but with SEs taking 1 padawan, and ICs taking 2 or 3 at a time). These relationships would be consistent across the game, and perhaps across multiple games, until the newbie graduated as an SE him/herself.

Of course they'd not be guaranteed to be on the same faction with their mentor, but they'd still be guaranteed a bit of adapted tutoring and mentoring specific to themselves and their play style. They'd learn mafia "in the wild" instead of in some carefully controlled atmosphere, and when they decided to leave RTR it wouldn't be like throwing them to the wolves, because they'd already have been baptized by fire, so to speak.

PROS:

That way each newbie would get a personalized "coach"
Multiple newbies could be assigned to ICs, perhaps 2 or 3 each
They wouldn't learn in a sanitized atmosphere, they'd play real games
Flakers could be replaced easily from the same newbie queue

CONS:

-It requires people to actually change something, and we know how receptive the community is to change around here...
-This scheme of doing things would be a bit different, and singersigner/successor would have different responsibilities


I randomly thought of this... would it help? Or would it be a disaster?

I actually think it'd be fucking amazing.

[UberNinja]

I wouldn't close the newbie queue in favor of having newbie games in the other queues instead. I imagine it being a bit chaotic for everyone, especially since a personal playing fault of mine that I've noticed is that I tend to conflate newbie mistakes with scum mistakes.

That's part of the game.

On a side note, the ability to /in twice or even more often into either the SE or IC queue is annoying to people who want to reach the top of the queue. It's silly that Nacho, for instance, is going to reach the top of the IC queue four times before I reach it once. It's not difficult to /in again as soon as you make it into a game and it will keep the wait time much lower than it is now (at least for the IC queue).

I wouldn't mind seeing this addressed in some form actually.

Also, this.

[UberNinja]

But none of this has to do with the setup of the newbie games; just the players playing them. And that's not the core issue, I don't believe.

Deprecating RTR altogether will make it so newbies are sprinkled amongst experienced-players' games, not vice versa. I think that'll help them better transition into playing real games, and will likely result in quite a few less policy lynches in the long run.

Getting experience in 3-4 games in RTR and then going out into "the real world" can wake you up with shock and surprise. After your first three or four games, you've been playing with at least five spanking new newbies every game. But in "the real world", there won't be that many, and I think forcing players to venture forth into the wild before their time will actually raise the bar of what is expected of newbies, and we'll have less FUCKING RETARDED VIs that think they're the shit, just because they've played a few games and possibly learned some devious ways to outsmart raw 1st timers.

Either that, OR...

We could impose a limit on the number of games that one can play in RTR, UNLESS one is an IC. We could again do away with the SE title altogether, and just have 2 IC's per game, with all of the high standards that entails. Everyone with 2 games of RTR experience would be forcibly ejected from RTR into the real world, to have a rude awakening. Then, after they've completed 3 more games, and learned the ropes, IF THEY WISH, they can go back into the RTR as an IC and teach some fresh blood the things they've learned.

I think either of those solutions are better than what's currently in place. Because the Newbie culture we have right now in RTR means you can do stupid shit for as long as you want, and nobody is going to make you play "grown up mafia" with the big kids, if you don't want to. Then, we have players playing four, five, even six RTR games before even venturing outside, because either they know how to do things in the Newbie Queue, and haven't had to learn how to use the other queues, or perhaps they just like being able to win against newbies time and time again. And then when they DO venture out into the other queues, we get a pile of shit because they're VIs that have been "raised" or "grown" or whatever the fuck you want to call it, in a place where they're playing with only 1 IC and 2 glorified newbies, and then a ton of other first- or second-time players.

[UberNinja]

Great post, Mert. I have my own thoughts which I will add after I've given the thread a more thorough read.

[UberNinja]

I thought bork's points against it were pretty solid.

And of course, the newbie scum PR in a newbie game is always going to be a little overexcited, so my guess is that they'll be lynched a greater than average number of times.

[UberNinja]

what's wrong with a static setup again? scum fakeclaiming?

isn't that part of the game? why are we trying to avoid that?

[UberNinja]

about whether they exist in the game?

[UberNinja]

What's it going to be called?