Android: Netrunner: The Living Card Game

Oman · Post Post #250 (ISO) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:51 am

I see how pop up window should be good (two credit swing for zero cost) but I find it hard to justify because it achieves nothing. At best it's a 1credit swing, I could only see it good with RSVP or NAPD with the idea being to make them too poor to steal anything (can red herrings be made to work?).

because I play a lot of shaper or deep dig decks I rarely worry about pop-up when I encounter it (there are few ice which are cheaper for my Kate deck to break).

Regarding blackat, most of the time it's as efficient as corroder. One of the best things about it is that it doesn't need stealth credits, but if you have them it can break huge barriers (hadrians and the like) much morer cheaply than corroder. For anything less than I think 5 strength it breaks for less or the same than corroder with normal credits. For anything greater than 7 or so it's mor expensive, unless you use stealth credits in which case it's almost HALF the cost. I really like the flexibility of blackat, and I don't understand why it wouldn't be used as the fracter of a stealth deck.

I like the flytrap deck as a helpful guide, there are a lot of great options to fit into that deck now too. I am lacking cauduses and TMI unfortunately, though should get them soon. I'll probably replace them and then slot them in when they arrive. Thanks guys I'll play with the idea later. (TGTBT seems like a really expensive way to tag a runner, and if I want to score it, it's a boatload of clicks and creds for 1 point. Considering Astro is a 3/2)

mykonian · Post Post #251 (ISO) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:22 am

you aren't thinking like an NBN player yet

The goal isn't to end the run, to stop an agenda from being taken. The goal is to make them pay for it so they can't do it often without losing control over the game. Popup is an excellent card at limiting runs and helps you in a lot of (criminal) matchups. In these tagging decks, the ideal would still be that you get a big midseasons hit which closes the game out for you. Cards like popup help you do that. Shaper (esspecially with MO) is indeed a bad matchup for the deck, I think.

regarding caduceus: It's a monster, see above. It wins the economic battle and it says end the run. You can easily do without TMI, that's a tricky card, super optional.

The two issues with blackkat are the bigger initial cost and the higher influence, also, you might not need to focus as much getting the best fracter out there in your deck, I don't actually know if that's necessary in kit. Maybe you could save the influence. Anyway, I did mess around with all stealth decks and it felt like blackkat was making it even slower by it's cost. Maybe kit alleviates that, could do with some testing!

As for TGTBT, it's a 1 pointer and having 3 breaking newses is really cool. That's a good card in that deck from the testing I did by now. As written up before, it was a replacement for false lead (which that deck ran). No clue if it's actually good. You could obviously play around there. Same with the PSF's. The 4-2 this agenda is worth one more point if the runner is tagged might work just as well, NAPD might work. Hunter in that deck has a similar thing, I don't actually think that card is good enough there, pretty sure it should go for a more functionally good ice, but it was a thought and I put one in to see if I was happy with drawing it.

Oman · Post Post #252 (ISO) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:01 pm

In post 251, mykonian wrote:The 4-2 this agenda is worth one more point if the runner is tagged might work just as well,

targeted marketing. As soon as I get it!

Oman · Post Post #253 (ISO) » Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:13 pm

In post 247, mykonian wrote:3x Viper

How do you like Viper? I use enigma a lot (because of course I do). Do you find Viper a suitable replacement for it with +2 str?

mykonian · Post Post #254 (ISO) » Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:20 am

well, it's nice obviously. There are just 6 pieces of ice that will get use out of the credits of the ID: data raven's trace is never going to hit unless people have already accept tags. Leaves just viper and draco.

Now, against someone with link, spending one cred on the first viper trace offers a 3 cred for 1 click trade, which people aren't going to take. Same with the etr, it's just too much tax with those recurring credits. Without link you don't really need those but it's obviously still nice. Breaking it is obviously more taxing than enigma, and though yog users are a dying race (weee lotus field) that was a reason to include it as well: pay the sucker tax, please. So yes, if one has the influence to spare, it's a nice and powerful card. I didn't want one caduceus and one 1 influenc ice, so I went with this. But in the end it's personal choice, really.

Patrick · Post Post #255 (ISO) » Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:00 pm

Viper is definitely worth including for 1 influence in Making News. I've been using it in some of my HB decks and it's a solid taxing piece. A bit worse than Enigma early on, but it stays relevant all game.

mykonian · Post Post #256 (ISO) » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:55 am

Wanted to post my new super serious ETF list. This is the one I'm playing in the stimhack league (4-0 so far, 2 good opponents, don't ask how I did it, because I don't know either). Mostly an update from my previous list which had some curious choices. This has one left, really. The root is a card that doesn't really bring anything new for the 3 influence it costs, but I don't know what else I would want for it as of now. One tollbooth maybe, take viktor 2 out, add an adonis. Hmm. Anyway, this deck is simple to play, has powerful cards, allows the opponent to mess up. Perfect for me then!

Spoiler: super serious HB FA

mykonian · Post Post #257 (ISO) » Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:27 am

couldn't sleep yesterday, then the sky opened and I heard a deep voice say "thou shalt build a professor deck with collective conciousness"

So after I saw the light, I went to work. An initial version needed testing and as if it were a miracle, patrick was online, looking for a runner. Of course that wasn't a coincidence, that was predestination.

Spoiler: professor with collective conciousness

Some particulary sharp readers among you might have noticed that I didn't do what I was told. I have to cut 3 cards to fit collective conciousness in. But I don't know which! All cards seem like they do something. Help me avoid being smitten!

Oman · Post Post #258 (ISO) » Fri Jan 02, 2015 1:46 pm

Oh my god, Professor is fucking BUILT for the dog breakers!

mykonian · Post Post #259 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:45 am

there was a lot of talk about it when the dogs were spoiled.

I'm not quite sure if the deck is actually very good, but it's not terrible? Winrate isn't spectacular so far, just above 50% but only one game was against a serious player (patrick). Change that was made after some playing was kati out, armitage in. I simply get more use out of two armitages than out of two kati's, can't handle burst economy as well and spend a lot up front paying for tutoring. Which is by the way an issue with this deck. It won't have a big bank at any point. I hoped I'd be somewhat in the clear with 12 clear economy cards, and a couple iffy ones (datasucker, scavenges), but that's one issue. Both the dogs have been quite nice, aesops is a monster here, imp has seen some work, sneakdoor/keyhole are successes and have won or forced archives ice. Parasite hasn't done a lot yet. Femme has seen a lot of play, never hard casted. Haven't had to levy yet, might be an issue with my play. The support suit with clone chips, scavenge, test run and SMC is very nice for quite a few cards. I liked playing around with that and getting value out of there.

Oman · Post Post #260 (ISO) » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:49 pm

I don't think Ice Analyzer is a really necessary econ card for you. Your call, in then end, but if you're looking to cut things that's probably a good start.

I don't think 1 parasite is amazing, but it's definitely better than leaving it out. It can help you just bring down an ice that's otherwise a nuisance.

If you're not using Levy it's probably because you're not going through your deck fast enough. Astrolabe is your big draw card and even that is only a few. Maybe a few diesels or quality times will help. I think you've got a lot of tutoring for your programs but if you can't find your economy you'll be in trouble.

mykonian · Post Post #261 (ISO) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:53 am

I saw someone use Ice analyser against me, also together with aesops. You get the econ out of it while you set up, then dump it for cash when you think you are in a good place/most ice is rezzed. Like, even if I don't use it it's 3 creds/2 clicks. That seemed fair, and this deck doesn't really run out of things to play with it. Idk, it is indeed a curiosity, it's in the deck because I wanted to test it and kind of hoped it would help me get a better early game (tended to be the weak side of my previous professor deck attempts and was always the focus). So far I haven't been too unhappy with it. It's clickless economy, and early on when the corp does rez now and then, it's not bad. Also kind of cool to have against blue sun (though I've only had that matchup once so far)

Parasite became useful in the games after that. It's really valuable against next ice (met a couple foundry decks with next and grail, don't know, maybe someone posted an article about that on stimhack?). You trash the silvers, use yog to get past the bronzes. As long as they don't run/don't find mother goddess, you are dealing with the next ice. Used to be my way of dealing with it in noise (then yog and knight were they ways past bronze, silver I didn 't want to break with corroder).

I don't think I would want to use it on popups. Oh, in the RP game I had after that post it took out a komainu, but the rest of the ice I saw in important places were bioroids or low str code gates so I didn't bother. I'd probably use it on a roto as well should the opportunity be there. It gives me the option of dealing with that ice easily, and should I suspect my opponent carries such ice, I could focus on recurring parasite. Just like against NEH, it's probably sensible to reserve some test runs/clone chips for imp, and d4v1d is a card to keep track of against blue sun.

You are right about the diesels, those are cards that probably should be in here (completely forgot about them) if I'm not running collective conciousness (and I'm more and more debating that as well. Initially I thought it would be a decent scavenge target, but the scavenges are kind of valuable, don't want to waste them too easily). I probably should be looking to include those in stead of conciousnesses.

Oman · Post Post #262 (ISO) » Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:31 am

Okay I didn't know what collective consciousness did, had to give it a google. It could work as your draw engine but it's putting a lot of your deck's control in the hands of the corp, and you're not playing anything to FORCE them to rez ice (multi-access, etc).

I only said pop up window because I've been looking at nasir decks for the last week and got the ID abilities confused. Ignore me.

I feel like diesel is just a great card. It never gives you more cards than you can handle, never gives you 3 cards you can't do anything with. Amazing card. I think if it's not in a shaper deck (especially with levy where you don't mind going through 2/3rds of your deck and having your big programs in the heaps cause clone chip) you need to have a really good reason.

ESPECIALLY when you can sell something to aesop, then levy it, then reinstall it later. OMG.

Scavenging ANYTHING with a cost of less than 3 is suboptimal, because aesops. It's kind of another clone chip at that point which you don't need because dude you have 9 clone chips (2 LARLAs). So scavenging consciousness isn't a great idea.

I will forever rate armitage above kati until slow games become the meta. In glacier where you can afford to spend a click every turn on generating cash, it's okay, but considering the ability to burst armitage, I'm all about it.

I'm kinda sleepy, but good luck. I want to say more on this deck because I find it super interesting.

mykonian · Post Post #263 (ISO) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:49 am

In post 262, Oman wrote:Scavenging ANYTHING with a cost of less than 3 is suboptimal, because aesops. It's kind of another clone chip at that point which you don't need because dude you have 9 clone chips (2 LARLAs).

there always seem to be too few clone chips

Oman · Post Post #264 (ISO) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:31 am

You have like 15 breakers. Clone chips are a safety net.

mykonian · Post Post #265 (ISO) » Mon Jan 05, 2015 10:10 am

I fear that's not really the case. Recurring goes into a couple of the utility cards, or sometimes the dogs. Against PE for deus ex, against BS d4v1d, against NEH for imp, parasite against certain ice, once happened for self modifying code because I ran like a moron, or was forced to run quickly, I forgot. There's a little safety net working because you have to keep drawing if you are missing a solution to a problem and can't find tutors either, which means some breakers that you might need in the future end up in archives. Happens more often to femme than others, but then she tends to be a target if/when sneakdoor gets scavenged. Faerie gets clone chipped occasionally.

idk, there are quite a couple of powerful cards that you'd like to clone chip. It'd be a waste to leave clone chip up.

Or in other words, when I say that there's always too few clone chips, that kind of means I'd always like more ice destruction, more cheap one shot ice breakers who don't care much about the strength of the ice, more cards that trip up combo's/take out those assets.

mykonian · Post Post #266 (ISO) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:20 pm

Our very own Patrick made the cut of the 250+ large stimhack league, after which a shared score with the final winner still put him at a very amazing 2nd place.

Congrats!

Oman · Post Post #267 (ISO) » Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:33 pm

Whoop whoop!

Patrick · Post Post #268 (ISO) » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:50 am

NBN Trick of light

Near-Earth Hub: Broadcast Center (Upstalk)

Agenda (11)
3x AstroScript Pilot Program (Core Set)
2x Breaking News (Core Set)
3x NAPD Contract (Double Time)
3x Project Beale (Future Proof)

Asset (9)
2x Daily Business Show (All That Remains)
3x Jackson Howard (Opening Moves)
1x Marked Accounts (Cyber Exodus)
3x PAD Campaign (Core Set)

Upgrade (3)
3x SanSan City Grid (Core Set)

Operation (10)
1x Closed Accounts (Core Set)
3x Hedge Fund (Core Set)
3x Sweeps Week (True Colors)
3x Trick of Light (Trace Amount) ••••• ••••

Barrier (6)
3x Eli 1.0 (Future Proof) •••
2x Ice Wall (Core Set) ••
1x Wraparound (Fear and Loathing)

Code Gate (7)
1x Enigma (Core Set)
3x Pop-up Window (Cyber Exodus)
1x Quandary (Double Time)
2x Tollbooth (Core Set)

Sentry (3)
3x Shadow (Core Set) •••

17 influence spent (max 17)
20 agenda points (between 20 and 21)
49 cards (min 45)
Cards up to All That Remains

Deck built on http://netrunnerdb.com.

Valencia standard

Valencia Estevez: The Angel of Cayambe (Order and Chaos)

Event (17)
2x Blackmail (Fear and Loathing)
2x Day Job (Order and Chaos)
3x Déjà Vu (Core Set)
3x I've Had Worse (Order and Chaos)
2x Inject (Up and Over)
1x Spooned (Order and Chaos)
1x Stimhack (Core Set)
3x Sure Gamble (Core Set)

Hardware (6)
3x Clone Chip (Creation and Control) ••••• •
2x Grimoire (Core Set)
1x Plascrete Carapace (What Lies Ahead)

Resource (7)
2x Armitage Codebusting (Core Set)
2x Daily Casts (Creation and Control)
2x Kati Jones (Humanity's Shadow)
1x Liberated Account (Trace Amount)

Icebreaker (7)
2x Corroder (Core Set)
2x Knight (Mala Tempora)
2x Mimic (Core Set)
1x Yog.0 (Core Set)

Program (13)
1x D4v1d (The Spaces Between)
2x Datasucker (Core Set)
2x Imp (What Lies Ahead)
2x Medium (Core Set)
3x Parasite (Core Set)
3x Self-modifying Code (Creation and Control) ••••• ••••

15 influence spent (max 15)
50 cards (min 50)
Cards up to Order and Chaos

New anarchs are fun! I went for the consistency of SMC+Clone chip and the economic/tricksy boost of Valencia's bad pub, over the disruptiveness of Noise. I think it's potentially the best Valencia build, but she's little tested so far. Played NEH because it's the best corp. Had one thing gone differently I would have won this, but I had some real luck in one of the unstreamed games as well (johnny legworking me early on and missing the astro that I then scored out for 2 credits). I found the pressure of knowing that so many were watching focussed my mind and made me play better. And now, the third league starts in two days!

TheButtonmen · Post Post #269 (ISO) » Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:46 pm

This is the result of deckbuilding after midnight while waiting to fall asleep, I apologize in advance to everyone exposed to it.

Spoiler: BoomSun or how I learned to learned to stop worrying and love the bomb.

mykonian · Post Post #270 (ISO) » Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:31 am

I mean, sure, I get the plan. And it might not even be terrible, just maybe easier to run out of steam in blue sun. I get how you arrived at AD given that you suggested such a path to me before.

But that ice :/

Hive doesn't do much here, caduceus is actively bad, data raven is a decent card but doesn't advance your main gameplan, swordsman is not a decent card and doesn't advance your main gameplan (and as such should not be in this deck). If you are that scared of AI's, get wraparound here. Probably run or cut a raven and run rototurret. Would also allow you to run a lotus field which isn't bad. 2 r&d ice is enough.

mykonian · Post Post #271 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:20 am

Spoiler: nbn flytrap

I did get a bit enamored with the deck after oman started talking about NBN:MN without scorched here, and although the name suggests it's the 5th, there have been 3a, 3b, 3c's etc so I really can't remember how many things changed back and forth. It has seen a couple of different cards. Anyway, new league, new decks, I decided to try this one.

And it's great fun, really. You set up very taxing servers with raven and tollbooth, even archer, and you actually make it tough for the runner to get in. You get to suprise tag them with breaking news, SEA, to closed accounts or take out that cred stacked kati. And when the tags are down, it has so many comeback plays.

But god it can't close out games against good players. Bad ones transition to tag me too early or too late, good ones get it about right, I think. And suddenly your lategame is shit, basically it shows how reliant this deck is on Data Raven and the issues that card has. It goes from awesome taxing beast to fancy piece of cardboard in no time at all. So you got the runner tagged, his bank is limited and he knows it, so here he goes desperation running. And sometimes that works, this deck hardly punishes desperation, you basically have to have drawn the better tag punishment already and hope the runner doesn't get to it.

Idk, this is me being sad. Either I pilot it badly, or I made bad choices in building the deck, or it's simply that the deck type is inferior. I'm pretty much happy with every card slot there, I think every card but PSF pulls it's weight, I like how it plays for the majority of the game... but it doesn't win. It just challenges the runner :/

TheButtonmen · Post Post #272 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 5:56 pm

Spoiler: BoomSun 2: Electric Boomaloo

The deck is now 6-2 across several iterations, the majority of the wins have been against players who weren't sure what to expect but it's still slowly but surely getting more solid with each iteration. All six of the wins have been off of dead runners and five of which have been off of A.Diagnostics combo.

TheButtonmen · Post Post #273 (ISO) » Sun Feb 15, 2015 6:05 pm

<daytodave> I have NEVER seen a power shutdown combo go off before

He then promptly died twice to it, I am an educator.

mykonian · Post Post #274 (ISO) » Sun Jul 19, 2015 8:50 am

This thread has been dead for way too long.

Today I came back from a holiday and on the plane trip I started doodling corp decks, mostly because the two decks I enjoy playing right now are both runner ones. So I was going for something fun but playable. Through an Argus and a PE deck I got to HB:CD. This ID is obviously intriguing, but it's a bit contradictory and as such when it came out I could not find a gameplan to fit it. On the plane though, some ideas came together and this actually seemed playable.

The ID is contradictory because while a 40 card deck implies combo's would be easier to find, the corp gets fewer cards in hand to collect said combo. The reduced handsize of the runner would love to see more damage come, but all HB gets is the high priced brain damage (which isn't terribly good at killing runners). So as mentioned before, the game plan I have seen people use (throw all brain damage cards and 3 snares in a deck and hope the runner runs into everything) is a bit janky.

Anyway, the deck.

Spoiler: HB:CD

Starting out, the idea was to go with a playstyle similar to the Jinteki Harmony Medtech decks. 3 pointers and some 1 pointers to finish. I considered domestic sleepers, but we'll return to that. With a 40 card deck, you get to see your jacksons a lot more often so juggling 3 pointers should be possible. Still, you are more at risk in R&D than with jinteki (no defensive 3 pointers here!), so snares had to be the thing. To finish a kill, neural emp seemed the best tool, no need for tagging, just runs.

At this point, between being able to juggle your 3 pointers and having 4 ways of throwing 3 damage in one turn at the runner, sleepers suddenly began even looking worse than they usually are. In stead of taking the trade that the runner could only with with scoring 3 3-pointers, but telling them exactly in which turn I'm about to win (I really hate that), I wanted to be able to move the game to an essentially won position by scoring 2 self destruct chips, or landing one brain damage over the course of the game and scoring a 1 pointer (which I need anyway) at which point the odds should be seriously in my favor with the snares, the emp's and the small deck. The rest of the deck is bursty, intending to make the game short, winning by either points or flatlining, putting agendas down to win or lose it there, not by waiting for the runner to come with medium digs/noise mill/valencia blackmail recursion or general shaper bs.

I know snares and emp's are nothing new for CD, but I liked the way that the self destruct chips fit in with the 3-3-1 scoring pattern which fit with the small deck and jackson.