Lurking vs. Keeping Quiet
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Dourgrim Yep. Again.
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Lurking vs. Keeping Quiet
In a couple of different games recently, I've been accused of lurking (which is itself kinda funny if you've been here for awhile and know how often I post). In both occasions I was keeping quiet because I hadn't noticed anything particularly noteworthy to comment on, and in both occasions I got called out for it... and in one game I was lynched as a result of it.
My contention is that it's oftentimes better to keep your mouth shut if you have nothing constructive to add rather than just posting for the sake of posting... and although I am a quasi-experienced player with some time on this site, I don't always have something worthwhile to add to a game.
Summation: While I agree that lurking kinda sucks, I think it's important to be able to make the distinction between lurking and keeping quiet. What do you folks think? Is such a thing even possible, or is MeMe's title of "Post or Perish" really the ultimatum?[size=75]The point of the journey is not to arrive...[/size]- shelper
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I dont like it, but sometimes it happens.
I have a habit of usually checking at least 3 times a day for games that i'm in, but in more then one occasion i find that i simply have nothing to add.
I could ofcourse simply hop on the nearest bandwagon without any epxlanation or post an "i agree" post, but usually i prefer to stay quiet and only post when i know i have something constructive to add to the discussion.- cuban smoker
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cuban smoker An Acquired Taste
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I voted for the first one, not because I necessarily agree with the wording, but more the spirit. My prime example is Bobacino. How I loved that brave guy. (where did he go?)
During the first two days of Intrigue, he posted to his heart's content. His posts were full of musings, suspiscions and idle banter the likes of which are rarely paralleled even on this board. Did he clog up the pages with worthless junk? I say no.
Another example is mathcam, who comes up with so many ideas that some of them are bound to stink. mathcam is lynched for those bad ones, while the town prospers from his good ones. Is this a good thing? (well, clearly part of it is...). Again, I say no.
You see, even when you have nothing to say, I'm sure you can think of something, if you try hard enough. Reread the latest night scene, and speculate outloud about the possibility that the real crook is the confirmed cop (is he really confirmed?) And if you're dumb, tell me a joke.
Will you be persecuted for these ideas? At first yes, but I pledge to renew the posting campaign. My posts from now on in games will have no shame, show no mercy, and have no respect for the artifical barriers of decency we have constructed. You are not safe in a town with me, unless you are posting, and posting merrily.
(hint: the scum will be revealed through their posts... bringing us full circle to the point of the game... and this post to a tidy conclusion)
En garde scum.- Dasquian
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Dasquian Mafia Scum
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I'm with Cuban Smoker on this one - when I play mafia, I want to be entertained by everyone and get a feel of where everyone is and what they're thinking. If I've got nothing to say, and nothing's happening, it's an indication that someone needs to take the initiative and make a case - and that someone should be you! If stuff's happening then, hooray, there should be plenty to post about
It's just more fun all round. Lots of posting makes it easier for the town because there's more to go on, which is great because it's a definite incentive to post for everyone. Even as a mafioso it's a challenge to be fully involved and still not get lynched.
So yeah, everyone should post a fair bit every game.- MeMe
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MeMe Post or Perish
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To clarify -- "Post or Perish" isn't meant to be read as "if you're logged on, I better see a post."
Itismeant to convey that I believe it's unfair to insist that some players carry the game while others sit back and watch. This is a text-based endeavor, so to not contribute your share of text is lazy. Everyone should havesomekind of an observation to throw in the pot at least a couple of times a week...if they won't, I say they don't deserve to be in the game.
Added: Oh - and as for the third choice -- "posting just for the sake of posting" is almost as bad as lurking, in my opinion. Post for the sake of moving the game along...for the sake of stirring up discussion. What's the point of a post that says "I have nothing to say"?Thinkof something to say!! Basically, cs & Dasquian -- I'm down wit' ya.Remember...It's not a lie if you believe it. -- G. Costanza- Dourgrim
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Dourgrim Yep. Again.
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I would like to go on record as agreeing with the above statement, and to point out that it has very little to do with the intent of this topic. I'm specifically referring to spots in a game where a player has nothing to add to the game, not the general tendency to lurk across the span of an entire game. (If I was unclear on this, I apologize.)Dasquian wrote:So yeah, everyone should post a fair bit every game.
I also agree that, if you're not planning on adding anything to a game, then there's no point in signing up for it... better to leave the spot open for someone whodoeswant to contribute.
I don't know... maybe I'm trying to draw too fine a line between the two concepts.[size=75]The point of the journey is not to arrive...[/size]- Stewie
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Talitha Dr. Dead
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I think there is alwayssomethingto say.... but then again I tend to post a lot, be too opinionated, and draw too much attention to myself... so I dunno.
As for lurking vs keeping quiet.. I'm not sure that there is a difference. I think all players are responsible for making the game fun and interesting by adding meaningful contributions regularly. However if they choose to keep quiet in certain instances because they think it is in the best interests of their side to do so, than that's fine. I voted for "Maybe".- CurtainDog
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CurtainDog Goon
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In my book, there is absolutely no difference between lurking and keeping quiet. If a player isn't posting, that means one of two things: either they've forgotten about the game (non-participating), or they are following the game, but not posting (lurking).
Non-participants must be "prodded" by the mod. If their silence continues, then they can only be dealt with in two ways: replacement or mod-kill.
Lurkers are much trickier beasts. Everyone, at some point, will lurk in a game. Sometimes, you have a really ridiculous role, and you don't want to have to face an early bandwagon. Sometimes, you don't have time to come up with content because your SO is feeling needy. Sometimes, the mod makes you a Mime. Most times, you're just scum looking for a free ride to the endgame.
Actually, lurking is not inherently scummy, but it's in the interests of the meta-game to treat it as such, because obviously a game with no one posting is a sucky, sucky game. But you have to have balance -- if all the players in the game are posting 12 times a day, all the meaningful content gets lost amid the waves and waves of non-essential fluff. Games tend to naturally balance out... if I'm in a game with MeMe, CS, mathcam, and there's a mith vs. Antrax point-by-point analysis fight going on, chances are that I'm not going to be posting up a storm. But, if the game's going slow and I have some good ideas, I'll step up and try to get things done.
My mighty 0.40 post per day count shows that I am not the kind of player who posts every time I'm Scumming. However, I do try to be active and valuble to whatever game I happen to be in. If I find myself lurking, it's because I don't have anything to add, which is usually a sign that I'm not giving the game enough thought. This is why I limit the amount of games that I'm in.- Wacky
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I post when I believe it is in the best interests of whatever side I am on to post and do not post when I believe it is not in the best interests of whatever side I am on.
Sometimes I can't help myself, post something that gets some scum lynched and me killed the following night (e.g. Shrek), sometimes I overdo the lurking (e.g. early part of Lagotany, ehn some vigilante was going to [read: night never came] kill me when I was a doctor [bah@r0ver]). I'm trying to avoid that.
Sometimes it is necessary not to contribute any more and allow scum or townies (depending) time to screw up, and react to whatever accusations you got....whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth.- Dasquian
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Dasquian Mafia Scum
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The problem with this attitude is that it's one only a very small proportion of the town can afford to take at any one time - if you allow people time to screw up then, guess what, they're not talking either and - oh - look, neither is anyone else. To get people to screw up you've got to give them something to slip up on.Wacky wrote:Sometimes it is necessary not to contribute any more and allow scum or townies (depending) time to screw up, and react to whatever accusations you got.
But I'm misinterpreting your point a little - I agree that sometimes it's best to keep quiet for a while to allow more important stuff to be said. I maintain though that this should only be for a portion of the game, and you should've been chatting and contributing properly in the rest of the game as per normal.- genku
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mathcam Captain Observant
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This will echo a lot of sentiments already expressed, but I agree that posting "I have noting to say" is still essentially lurking, and keeping quiet is saying essentially the same thing as saying "I have nothing to say." So yeah, I think intentionally keeping quietislurking (at least to a near approximation).
My rule for games in general is somewhat Kantian: I only play a certain way if I would find it fun if everyone played in the same way. Not only would the "I'm waiting for something interesting to happen" attitude not be fun, there would be no game at all. In my mind, it's that simple.
Oh, and I love this line:
I'd put it as my title if it weren't too long, and I'd put in as my signature except that if I did, every time I came up with a plan from now on, people would make some stupid reference to the quote and lynch me. But really, that's an awesome quote.mathcam wrote:Another example is mathcam, who comes up with so many ideas that some of them are bound to stink. mathcam is lynched for those bad ones, while the town prospers from his good ones.
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mathcam Captain Observant
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Well, I think a lot of people might agree but have voted differently. The above choices are not mutually exclusive. I agree that it's sometimes better to keep quiet than post just for the sake of posting, but I also think it's better to post for real than to be quiet. There of courseNo... there's no excuse not to post to a game each time you're on mafiascum.
Yes... sometimes it's better to keep quiet than post just for the sake of posting.areexcuses for not postingeachtime you log on, say external time constraints, but I don't think there's any excuse for prolonged deliberate silence.
Cam- PolarBoy
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What I find funny about mathcam's ideas is that when he get's lynched for them(at least what I've seen) it's because everybody went along with the plan and it went sour, and somehow it's all his fault.[/somewhatofftopic]
Anyway I go with mathcam on this, that everybody should realize "I shouldn't stay quiet because if everybody did that then there would be no game.".
edit: Woo, We middlers are now the majority. In your face extremists.- Gaspode
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Amen.PolarBoy wrote:Anyway I go with mathcam on this, that everybody should realize "I shouldn't stay quiet because if everybody did that then there would be no game."."OH MY GOD, Cadmium! I can make rye bread! You must be innocent, I'll do whatever you tell me!" exclaims Mackay excitedly. - Jeep, Mini Game 9-
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How about if you're an important town role and fear that saying something stupid when you have nothing to say will lead to your subsequent bandwagoning and role revelation, and death? I hate it when people, especially town, say the most retarded things and then end up getting lynched for attracting attention.
Sometimes, it IS just better to keep quiet.
The difference between lurking and keeping quiet, is pretty simple, actually. Ex. mailing lists. I get about six new topics a day from one of my lists. Sometimes I'll respond, sometimes I won't. I'll respond when I have something to say, so I'm not a lurker. If I have things to say, but don't respond, then I am. If I never have anything to say, I should probably quit playing Mafia.- mathcam
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There is a difference between mailing lists and a game of mafia. A mailing list is a venue for thoughts and messages if they occur, so not posting to them is simply a sign of not having any thoughts to share. A mafia game is a vehicle that has to be moved by its participants for it to function. Mailing listsallowcommunication, mafia gamesrequireit.
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Ahh, but then you get people pointing at you saying "Oh, look! He's just posting occasionally to make sure we don't think he's lurking!" It's something of a catch-22, really... which is probably why it's so frustrating, and probably why I created this thread in the first place.mathcam wrote:You don't have to go out of your way to be talkative and generate potentially-self-lynching ideas, just maintain an observable presence in the game.[size=75]The point of the journey is not to arrive...[/size] - Dourgrim
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