Mini #76, Black and White

[Isaac]

So we have had lots of claims. No one else has claimed to have a repeated PM. So i say that everyone who hasn't said what was in their PM yet should do so. It can't really hurt us in any way that I can think of, and if no one else has a repeated PM, that's more than enough reason to lynch Fletcher for me.

[Wacky]

Well, having thought about it some, I've come up with this:

This is polarboy modding. He usually messes with our minds around twice or so. In trouble in toybox it was elmo (expected by some)and jack stone(unexpected) being naive. In Homestar it would probably be Strong Bad's prank call (expected by d8p), and Strong Sad (not expected).

My role is
From: PolarBoy
To: Wacky
Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2003 6:01 am
Subject: Mini #76 Role
You are Sean Connery(Town).

Just like that. That is most definitely the surprise. Leaving the "expected" head messing up with.

I think we can expect that the mod MIGHT (but not necessarily did) double the most basic townie role to mess with our heads. He may also have "townie" and "Plain Townie" to mess with our heads. I don't think he would have both. If you already have "Plain Townie", "townie" is a bit more plain. But we have two alleged "plain townie"s and only one alleged "townie". It should be the other way around IMO for it to work.

Thus, either Isaac is lying and "plain townie" is the most plain townie role or Fletcher is lying. Or both.

Only I can't decide who to vote for... so I'm going to

vote Fletcher

Isaac's defense of blackhawk and final voting of Carmine are both suspicious, but for some reason I don't get many scummy vibes from him.

OTOH, how about this theory for Fletcher being scum. F= scum. Thinks that by doubling on the most basic townie PM he could get away with the above argument - especially since townies have already died without revealing their PM. Doesn't take Isaac into account.

[No Idea]

My role PM:

From: PolarBoy
To: No Idea
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:00 pm
Subject: Mini #76 Role
Town Member.

[MeMe]

verbatim:

"Out-of-work Townsperson"

[Kerplunk]

I've got: "Townsperson".

[Gammie]

From: PolarBoy
To: Gammie
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 3:01 pm
Subject: Mini #76 Role
You are the village idiot[Town]. Being as stupid as you are, you have no night abilities.

[Fletcher]

Can we get a vote count? I'm curious as to how far away I am from being lynched.

[Isaac]

It's not like this has been a busy-votin' day, Fletcher. You have two votes, one from MeMe and one from Wacky. Thus far, we have absolutely no evidence that anyone but you got repeated roles. Of course, I don't believe you actually did get a repeated role, unless all the mafia got the same role. Which is something we can flesh out later, I suppose. At any rate, what with your claiming a repeated role and the other scummy moves that have been noted by various others like MeMe (that "we just lynched an innocent" remark stuck out to me too), I'm comfortable as I'm going to be doing this:

vote: Fletcher

That's three of five. Merry Christmas!

[Wacky]

Yay. Scum is back. But I'm a bit lost ATM.

Living(7/12)
Fletcher (Plain Townie)
Gammie (Village Idiot[town])
Isaac (townie)
Kerplunk (Townsperson)
MeMe (Out-of-work TP)
No Idea (Town MeMeber...lol - funny typo)
Wacky (Sean Connery)

Dead(5/12)
bloojay - hit night 3 (Townie, something about relatives)
Carmine - lynched day 2 (Plain Townie)
The Mystery Celly - hit night 2 (??)
blackhawk - lynched day 1, Mafia! (Mafia out to extinguish townies)
Talitha - hit night 1 (??)

FOS: No Idea. Mafia Memeber seems more likely. Mafia should stop just copying their PMs and sticking in "town" where it says "mafia" Happy Christmas to you all.

[MeMe]

My role PM:

From: PolarBoy
To: No Idea
Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:00 pm
Subject: Mini #76 Role
Town Member.

No Idea (Town MeMeber...lol - funny typo)
Wacky (Sean Connery)

<<snip>>

FOS: No Idea. Mafia Memeber seems more likely. Mafia should stop just copying their PMs and sticking in "town" where it says "mafia" Happy Christmas to you all.

What the heck are you talking about, Wacky? I don't see No Idea making this "MeMeber" typo in his claim.

[PolarBoy]

Don't worry Wacky. There's no need to talk when everybody's trying to sleep. Anyway Fletcher was lynched. He turned out not to be scum. Begin night 4.

[PolarBoy]

And another one bites the dust. Wacky died last night. Those scum shall pay for this.

Begin day 4. With 5 alive it's 3 to lynch and the town is in check. They may not miss another lynch and still win.

[Kerplunk]

We have to be carefull now on not to vote for someone just like that, because the mafia can put their two votes quickly on and lynch an innocent.

Don't think that Isaac and MeMe are scum, because of their argument Day 1. It could be that it was a set-up, but we have to rely on something. We have two scum left, so we don't need to look at MeMe or Isaac to be scum just yet. Leaves Gammie and No Idea.

Facts:
blackhawk-wagon:

mystery celly, bloojay

, MeMe,

Wacky

, Kerplunk, No Idea
Carmine-wagon: Kerplunk, Gammie, No Idea, MeMe, Isaac
Fletcher-wagon: MeMe, Kerplunk,

Wacky

, Isaac

I find No Idea scummier then Gammie. He did cast the last vote on blackhawk, but it was inevitable that bh got lynched I think. But Gammie didn't even vote for blackhawk. Which makes me think Gammie is scum.

Actually, I have no idea. But I think we have to decide between No Idea and Gammie (if Isaac and MeMe aren't scum together).

[MeMe]

I think we

do

need to look at Isaac as scum -- to me, he's the most likely out of you four.

Day 1

- he never voted for blackhawk and defended him heavily

Day 2

- put the final vote on Carmine

Day 3

- acts confused over the mafia's choice to kill bloojay

Day 3

- puts final vote on Fletcher while claiming it's "three of five" when it was actually four of four. That looked, to me, like he was setting up an excuse -- especially because he berates Fletcher for not keeping track of the votes in the same post (e.g. "I obviously wouldn't have mocked Fletcher if I realized I was making the same mistake!").

I want to hear from Isaac. I also want to hear from Kerplunk why

on earth

he would give Isaac a pass for arguing with me on day one. At the end of the day yesterday, I was 75% sure it was Isaac & Wacky together because both of them made amazingly weird/wrong comments ("three of five" and "MeMeber"). Since Wacky's dead and not mafia, I'm suddenly looking at Kerplunk with interest.

[Kerplunk]

I want to hear from Isaac. I also want to hear from Kerplunk why

on earth

he would give Isaac a pass for arguing with me on day one.

I'm not saying Isaac can't be scum. I'm saying he can't be scum with you (because of all the arguing with you on day 1). That gives three possibilities:

1: Neither of you is scum -> Gammie and No Idea are scum
2: Isaac is scum and MeMe isn't -> Gammie

or

No Idea is scum
3: MeMe is scum and Isaac isn't -> Gammie

or

No Idea is scum.

In all three cases, at least one of them (Gammie, No Idea) is mafia. So I guess we should decide between those two who to lynch, and leave the third mafiosi for tomorrow. We then can see who is dead and then we can always turn our attention to Isaac or who-ever.

[Kerplunk]

sorry, double post.

Since Wacky's dead and not mafia, I'm suddenly looking at Kerplunk with interest.

That last thing I don't understand. And of course I know that my logic does not hold if I'm scum, but trust me: if I was scum I would have screwed up a long time ago.

[MeMe]

The "looking at Kerplunk with interest" thing is because I think Isaac is our strongest possibility of scum and you've set up a scenario where he's not even a consideration. Who could be his partner? Well, the player pointing the spotlight away from him, that's who.

There's no second chance. This is a must-lynch-scum day.

[Gammie]

So you think I'm scummy for not voting for BlackHawk? If you go and re-read pages 2-4, I said multiple times that I wasn't following the game. It took about 4 re-reads to get to the point I am now.

Instead of the people who didn't vote for Blackhawk, you should be looking at the person who defended him and then tried to shift attention to MeMe. Who was that?

Isaac

Hey there...

I don't even really want to be posting this, but I didn't post yesterday, and dammit, I want to post something constructive today. So I don't see why we should kill blackhawk. He didn't make a suspicious claim at all, he didn't change his claim, he didn't really do anything that Gammie is voting him for. It seems like he's being voted for now mostly because people want this day to be over. Which is, of course, a really bad idea. There's more than enough crap logic in this game so far without having to resort to lynching someone because we want the day to be over.

Now, for other things. I'm actually casting a suspicious eye at Meme these days. She started on blackhawk for no real reason. She has, what, five billion posts since the boards went up last? Yet all of a sudden, for all this experience, she somehow misreads blackhawks fairly simple claim? A claim that I, with my considerably lower post count, was able to figure out. Also, here's another thing. She says that it looks like some other townies may ahve gotten sllightly different role claims than what she got. But lord knows I had a completely wording of my townie role when I recieved it than anything that's been posted so far. It almost sounds like she never recieved a townie role at all.

Here's the thing about those townie role claims. I'll bet you that all of us townies got different wordings on our claim. Otherwise, in a game with only townies and mafia it would be too easy to make people claim and then lynch them if they got different wording, with too much of an advantage for the town.

Anyhow, I think lynching Blackhawk would be a mistake, and i'll be damned if i'm going to put the final, foolish vote on him. There are much more suspicious people in the game right now.

[Kerplunk]

The "looking at Kerplunk with interest" thing is because I think Isaac is our strongest possibility of scum and you've set up a scenario where he's not even a consideration. Who could be his partner? Well, the player pointing the spotlight away from him, that's who.

I know that this looks like drawing attention from Isaac. Well, it is but not because I'm his fellow scummy.

If everyone agrees that MeMe and Isaac can't be scum together

, I know that either Gammie or No Idea (or both) are scum.

Maybe Isaac is scum. But if Isaac is scum, then most likely Gammie or No Idea aren't (because they voted for Isaac yesterday with no 'pressure' from other townies). That would mean that you are the last scum, MeMe. But I can't believe you would be scum with Isaac.

My guess is that Gammie and No Idea are the mafia in this game. I am a townie and I think I will not vote for Isaac, it would be illogical from my point of view.

[Gammie]

You just admitted to trying to draw attention from Isaac.
You tried to draw attention from Blackhawk when he was mafia.

I'm seeing a trend here

If you want more proof other than my claim that I'm not mafia - Look in Newbie game 2. Other mafia with me was lynched first day and then I was lynched second. Look how stupid we acted - You can't possibly tell me I've been acting like a retard this entire game, because I've been -lost- for most of it

[Isaac]

Well, i'm a townie, so i would advise against lynching me. Yesterday i thought my vote was the third because i missed kerplunk's second vote because he didn't seperate it from the paragraph. Instead, it was sitting over on the right hand side of his post, and i missed it even though i scanned the page thrice. I thought we had five votes because on the same page where the day opened, Polarboy said we needed five to lynch. Of course, he was referring to the previous day, but what can ya do? All the same, I would have voted the same even if i had been cogniscent of the fact that it was the fourth and deadly vote. Lets face it, he looked damn scummy. He was claiming a repeated role claim when everyone else had unique ones, and it looked like he was piggybacking carmine's role.

Anyhow, as to what MeMe said:

Day 1 - he never voted for blackhawk and defended him heavily

Yes, because I didn't agree with the reasons for lynching him, and i thought he was being railroaded. My attacking MeMe grew naturally out of that, as since I thought he was being railroaded, it would make sense that she would be the one railroading him, as she was the one going full force after him.


Day 2 - put the final vote on Carmine

Yep! Cause she was the scummiest looking person in the town, and I thought she was scum. What MeMe convinently leaves out here is the fact that she was the prime mover behind the carmine bandwagon, and really is as culpable, if not moreso, than I in her death.


Day 3 - acts confused over the mafia's choice to kill bloojay
Day 3 - puts final vote on Fletcher while claiming it's "three of five" when it was actually four of four.

I'm still confused over the mafia's decision to kill bloojay. It still doesn't make sense. Bloojay was not an asset to the town, why kill him at night? Especially cause we know there are no doctors.

I talked about the three of five business above, and MeMe neglects to mention that she was the prime mover behind that bandwagon as well. Again, she voted for him, she convinced others (myself included) to vote for him.

So that's what was going through my head. So i've got bad judgement, particularly in my decisions to agree with MeMe, but what can ya do? Anyhow, I'm of the opinion that MeMe and No Idea are probably our remaining scum, but then again i've shown particularly bad judgement this game, so take all that with a grain of salt.

[MeMe]

I haven't "conveniently left out" anything, Isaac. I doubt

anyone

has forgotten that I helped to lynch all three of our daytime dead -- I've been verbal and in full view the entire game with my opinions. The difference between you and me is that

I

was surprised to see that Carmine & Fletcher weren't scum in their death scenes, but I sincerely doubt that

you

were. You allowed the cases against innocents to be built by others and only went along (in both cases) when your vote was the final one -- and no, I'm not buying your convoluted explanation of how you thought your vote on Fletcher was third because you didn't see Kerplunk's vote AND read the wrong post by PolarBoy. Come on. I could have possibly believed just

one

of those excuses -- if, for example, you had claimed to have missed Kerplunk's vote and said "three of four" or read the wrong mod post and said "four of five" -- but I'm supposed to believe that you made two major mistakes in one crucial post? Especially when you were chiding Fletcher for his ignorance and characterized it as possible "scum posturing" when you claimed that I had made two mistakes earlier in the day?

As for your continued confusion about the bloojay kill -- Wacky and No Idea already explained the probable reason here...

I went back and read over the thread again, and I think I've figured out why bloojay is killed:

well, I'll go ahead and claim.
I am a simple townie who hates the mafia for killing some close relatives.

Bloojay was the first to claim stuff in addition to the townie role. That made him look innocent. This would suggest someone who pays attention to fine detail is on the mafia.

and here...

As for bloojay, he was definitely the closest thing we had to a confirmed innocent, so I don't think it is not very surprising that the mafia chose to kill him.

Known innocents are a danger to the mafia. They can't be lynched, nor can suspicion be cast on them...so they must be killed at night. This is basic mafia, Isaac, and I think you knew this even

before

it was explained. That you

still

feign not to have grasped it is, at best, dense or, at worst, totally scummy.

Now to Kerplunk's idea: I understand the "logic" -- if Kerplunk's pro-town, it

is

a sure thing that at least one of Gammie or No Idea is scum. But even a pro-town Kerplunk can't know which one of the two is scum if it's ONLY one. And because

I

don't know for sure that Kerplunk's truly on our side, I

must

discount the plan and go with the actual game patterns. Isaac's play says "reckless mafia" to me. I'm thisclose to voting for him, but I need to hear how No Idea responds to the accusations against him before taking the plunge.

[Kerplunk]

If Isaac is scum (and MeMe isn't), then Gammie or No Idea are scum. But then why did Gammie and No Idea vote for him yesterday for no apparent reason (does anyone have an opinion on that?)? Also, the argueing between MeMe and Isaac would suggest that MeMe and Isaac aren't scum together.

So, Isaac can't be scum with Gammie, No Idea and MeMe. I'm a townie. With the things I know (me being a townie) I can see no 'logic' reason why I should vote for Isaac. I think that No Idea and Gammie are the scum in this game. Or MeMe took a gambit in 'chasing' blackhawk Day 1.

Going to reread again and see if I can find some game patterns to support my theory.

[No Idea]

I'm thisclose to voting for him, but I need to hear how No Idea responds to the accusations against him before taking the plunge.

If by "accusations" you mean Kerpulnk's logic, I can only say that if Kerpulnk really thinks that I or Gammie are better targets than Isaac he's not particularly bright. When someone feverishly defends scum, casts a lynching vote on an innocent, does that again, this time "accidentally" and then defends himself by basiclly saying "oops", you lynch him, regardless of who do you think he might be scum with. We have no proof whatsoever that he can't be scum with any of the other four people (I know I'm innocent, but I'm looking at it from an objective point of view). Even him and MeMe, although I have to admit it is very unlikely, might have planned ahead their "fight" on day 1. Gammie's vote for him definitely doesn't prove anything. It is perfectly logical, and even smart for a mafia member to vote for fellow scum. But you know who's more likely to be scum with Isaac? The one who keeps trying to draw suspicion away from him. Kerpulnk, I think I'll be going for you tomorrow.

Anyway, I think that Isaac is scum and I can't think of anything he or anyone else [chough] Kerpulnk [\chough] might say that'll make me think otherwise. Thus, I see no point in drawing this day any longer.

Vote: Isaac

. If he turns out to be innocent (and the unluckiest men who ever lived), we lost. If he's scum (and not so unlucky after all), we lynch his buddy Kerpulnk tomorrow and win. I'll take these chances any day.

[Kerplunk]

I hope for the town that Isaac is indeed scum. I hope. But I think we're making a big mistake. I would like to vote for No Idea at this point, but I think that would be a little dangerous. I'm not that sure of my case.