Mini 1569: The Golden Cookie Heist! -End-

[Kalimar]

Vote Count 3.4

HearTheLightning (2): Elyse, bjc


Not Voting:

HearTheLightning, geraintm, Slandaar, sthar8, My Milked Eek

-

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2014-06-09 05:12:48)

[Slandaar]

Slandaar - his top scummy people yesterday were kush and slainthe.
Either very good at finding scum, or putting his partners at the top of his list to distance themselves.

I don't know how you missed Elyse from my list. To be honest I exaggerated the kush read to get him lynched so my reads haven't been great, but, thanks.

[geraintm]

Slandaar - his top scummy people yesterday were kush and slainthe.
Either very good at finding scum, or putting his partners at the top of his list to distance themselves.

I don't know how you missed Elyse from my list. To be honest I exaggerated the kush read to get him lynched so my reads haven't been great, but, thanks.

It was between Slainte and Kush yesterday when I realised deadline was so soon. Not hesitating just thinking about which is better before pushing the lynch through turns out it didn't really matter but meh. Go vote elsewhere, thank you.

Well, that is how. I missed it. You didn't mention élysé.

[geraintm]

This being said I'm at a point where the scum is 80% within Ger/Elyse/MME/Slandaar. Sthar is sounded more and more town with each progressive post, and if bjc is scum (This would require a secondarily NK mechanic that is either also mafia, or hasn't outed itself, but if that is the case then GG) then we lost.

).

There are only 7 players left in the game
If you exclude yourself, then any 4 players is going to have a ridiculously high % chance of including scum. This was an incredible pointless post.
Waiting on his response to my quick question this morning though

[HearTheLightning]

There's only one person in this game who hasclaimed, Ger, and it's not you. And I wasn't providing 80% as a statistical piece of evidence, I'm just saying "I'm nearly certain that the scum is not to be found between myself, bjc, or Sthar." I was simply emphasizing my town reads.

That being said I don't really understand why my last post was terrible, so if Elyse could expound upon her reasons it'd be lovely.

[geraintm]

Sorry, I thought you were referring to the me as I was the previous postee.

[Slandaar]

It was between Slainte and Kush yesterday when I realised deadline was so soon. Not hesitating just thinking about which is better before pushing the lynch through turns out it didn't really matter but meh. Go vote elsewhere, thank you.

Well, that is how. I missed it. You didn't mention élysé.

You appear to have removed my quote from it's rightful context.

[Slandaar]

That being said I don't really understand why my last post was terrible, so if Elyse could expound upon her reasons it'd be lovely.

What is this very valuable information we will gain from lynching you instead of Ger who from townyou's POV could be scum?

[geraintm]

It was between Slainte and Kush yesterday when I realised deadline was so soon. Not hesitating just thinking about which is better before pushing the lynch through turns out it didn't really matter but meh. Go vote elsewhere, thank you.

Well, that is how. I missed it. You didn't mention élysé.

You appear to have removed my quote from it's rightful context.

I extracted a part of 694 I admit, but nowhere in 694 did you mention élysé. What have I done to cast aspirations on your honour by quoting out on context?

[Slandaar]

That isn't a reads list and I think that it pretty clear.

It shows a very lazy read on me.

[Elyse]

@HTL
Your post hit a lot of red flags, such as the inability to understand why someone would want to lynch you and threatening bjc by asking if he's secure with certain players finding scum.

You wanting to be lynched and have Ger shot is weird and makes no sense. I think you are trying to use reverse psychology to keep yourself from being lynched. Maybe you have some role that can block bjc's kill or something.

Then you say you are "80% sure" scum is within four players, only ruling out yourself, bjc, and sthar which literally means nothing.

I don't understand why a wagon on MME or Ger wouldn't be productive. If it's because it's hard to produce a case on them because of lack of content, isn't that reason enough?

[My Milked Eek]

Do people not remember me voting for kush? I know kush put me in his scum list, but I did do my best to get him lynched from way before I was merely hopping onto a wagon.

I'll get back to the lynch thing later

Your vote for kush meant as much as my vote for kush. Also, you trying to act as if your vote on kush was "doing your best to get him lynched" is a bit of a stretch of that concept.

My thoughts on the players.

That's actually just a summary. Could you retry posting your thoughts? I'd also like to know your meta reason to vote me. I'm interested as to what kind of reason you're going to make up.

At this point, I'd rather have us lynch ger.

VOTE: geraintm

[My Milked Eek]

Voted too early it seems.

Unvote.

I just iso'd a few players and I want an answer to elyse's last line @HTL:
"I don't understand why a wagon on MME or Ger wouldn't be productive. If it's because it's hard to produce a case on them because of lack of content, isn't that reason enough?"

Why don't you (htl) want a wagon/lynch on me?

[geraintm]

That isn't a reads list and I think that it pretty clear.

It shows a very lazy read on me.

I was going back from your most recent posts, and I read post 694 which said what you thought about the previous day. Your previous mention of élysé was some comments directed to them in post 506. You did not mention at any point between 11th May and 21st may élysé.
I believe I am perfectly fair in trying you did not make élysé one of your scum targets yesterday and I did not misrepresent you and I did not do a lazy read on you.

[geraintm]

Do people not remember me voting for kush? I know kush put me in his scum list, but I did do my best to get him lynched from way before I was merely hopping onto a wagon.

I'll get back to the lynch thing later

Your vote for kush meant as much as my vote for kush. Also, you trying to act as if your vote on kush was "doing your best to get him lynched" is a bit of a stretch of that concept.

My thoughts on the players.

That's actually just a summary. Could you retry posting your thoughts? I'd also like to know your meta reason to vote me. I'm interested as to what kind of reason you're going to make up.

At this point, I'd rather have us lynch ger.

VOTE: geraintm

It wasn't just a simple vote on kush.
Go read my post 611.
If I was scum, give me a reason why I would post that so close to deadline I see no one but kush, my partner, is going to get lynched. Go read my previous games.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 5#p5845565

Here, my post 2985. I was scum and my review of the game is me complaining about nacho bussing the third scum for no reason, under no pressure. Which is exactly what people seem to think I have done in this game.

Oddly, bjc was also in that game and should really know me better.

[HearTheLightning]

What is this very valuable information we will gain from lynching you instead of Ger who from townyou's POV could be scum?

Essentially, everything that is currently being said about me, from you, MME, and Elyse. Ger has been criticized over and over again concerning the same points. If he were to get lynched, the case against him would essentially be "I think he did [content we already discussed on D1 and D2 in excruciating detail]" whereas a lynch on me would require NEW content that has yet to be discussed, which could possibly help town into figuring how who is mafia/who is town based on how the wagon on me turns out. I'm not a hypocrite- wagons produce content for town to use in finding scum, and wagons on me are not exempt from this.
To expand on this- each Day, to simplify, has two goals.
1. To find and lynch scum for that day.
2. To create content to be analyzed the NEXT day so as to fulfill goal #1 for the next day.
The only day where goal 2 is irrelevant is in a lylo situation where there's 1 mafia left. From a non-me/Ger perspective, we both might be scum, but a wagon on him doesn't make any content to be discussed for the next day ("Hey I think what you said about Ger was very over-eager, you might be scum!"), because it's all been said. A wagon on me would bring out new evidence, new suspicions, etc., which are all REALLY healthy for a town that is clearly running severely low on gas.

@HTL
Your post hit a lot of red flags, such as the inability to understand why someone would want to lynch you and threatening bjc by asking if he's secure with certain players finding scum.

"I would strongly suggest against shooting me, though I can understand why you'd want to." I completely understand why people would want to lynch me- I think you are misconstruing what I said. And secondly, I apologize if it came off as passive aggressive- I am literally asking him "Please double check to ensure that you are okay with a Town of {Slandaar, Sthar8, My Milked Elk, and Elyse} being able to find scum if the game doesn't end N3?" That's it. He's most likely going to be NK'd, so I am simply providing that as food for thought.

You wanting to be lynched and have Ger shot is weird and makes no sense. I think you are trying to use reverse psychology to keep yourself from being lynched. Maybe you have some role that can block bjc's kill or something.

If you're paranoid about my intentions I'm going to have no way to convince you otherwise. I am not trying to save myself from being lynched, I am trying to better the town for the condition that the game does not end by N3. For the other half of your statement- are you really considering that both myself and Ger are scum? First off- check the list of standard roles, which one allows me to save Ger from a NK after I've been lynched? Secondarily if I'm scum there'd be no reason to protect him if he's town, and if he was scum and I was town, I really wouldn't want to protect him, cause I think there's an above average chance of hitting properly on him. This is a really unfounded paranoia, even if I am scum.

Then you say you are "80% sure" scum is within four players, only ruling out yourself, bjc, and sthar which literally means nothing.

I don't understand why a wagon on MME or Ger wouldn't be productive. If it's because it's hard to produce a case on them because of lack of content, isn't that reason enough?

I apologize for my wording- I suppose it would have been better to have said "There is an above average chance of hitting scum within this pool of players than there is in the remaining pool of players." I just hate giving out objective statements about how there's a "100% that there's scum between these people."

And next, yet again, it is not that there's no content to be made concerning Ger, it's that there's next to no NEW content (Not from him, but about him) he's said a lot, but the only things people hate about him are his D1 and D2 play, so any wagon on him would just be beating a dead horse- as such a NK on him would be better since it doesn't waste important discussion time within the town. As for MME, it's not that he has no content, it's that the content is in a very weird situation given that there have been two replacements on that specific slot- despite one being the original. He has had a huge interim and can kind of be excused for lack of content after getting back into the game. A wagon on him would be kinda spotty, and I still maintain my town read on the role regardless, so I feel that a wagon would be wasted there.
---
I believe that's covered everything.

[sthar8]

Prodding sthar, ger, elyse.

It's been less than 24 hours since my expected VLA return date.

I'm back in town and catching up. I've got games with earlier deadlines than this one though, so don't expect too much tonight.

[Kalimar]

Prodding sthar, ger, elyse.

It's been less than 24 hours since my expected VLA return date.

My bad, didn't process your V/LA post.

Prodding bjc.

[bjc]

sup bitches

Can we kill someone?

[geraintm]

Do people not remember me voting for kush? I know kush put me in his scum list, but I did do my best to get him lynched from way before I was merely hopping onto a wagon.

I'll get back to the lynch thing later

Your vote for kush meant as much as my vote for kush. Also, you trying to act as if your vote on kush was "doing your best to get him lynched" is a bit of a stretch of that concept.

My thoughts on the players.

That's actually just a summary. Could you retry posting your thoughts? I'd also like to know your meta reason to vote me. I'm interested as to what kind of reason you're going to make up.

At this point, I'd rather have us lynch ger.

VOTE: geraintm

Meta reason to vote for your slot

Having just had 2 scum go down in quick succession, I can see the last scum getting dispirited and wanting to leave the game. That is why I could make a meta case for voting your slot.

[My Milked Eek]

[Elyse]

@HTL
I misread that line. I thought you said "I can't see why you would want to." My bad.

I don't think you and Ger are scum together. I said that your strange acquiescence with being lynched makes me think you are trying to use reverse psychology to NOT be lynched. I know it sounds far fetched but I wouldn't expect you to lie down like a doormat and almost advocate for your own lynch.

Narrowing down a pool of seven players to four scumspects (taking out yourself and an un CC'd PR as two of your three townreads) means pretty much nothing. Saying that scum is most likely in there is like saying there are most likely clouds in the sky. It's an easy way to make it look like you are trying to scum hunt when really, you left all attainable lynches open except for sthar.

Lastly, your theory about lynching active players with content makes no sense and promotes lurking.

[HearTheLightning]

I don't think you and Ger are scum together. I said that your strange acquiescence with being lynched makes me think you are trying to use reverse psychology to NOT be lynched. I know it sounds far fetched but I wouldn't expect you to lie down like a doormat and almost advocate for your own lynch.

I'm not "lying down"- as I said, if me and Ger are the two to die, it is better to at least generate discussion around me as opposed to yawning for 11 days then instalynching him. The conversations we are having right now would not be happening if Ger was the one to be wagoned on. I would *highly* prefer that I not die this D/N phase, but if I am dying either way, then town gains more information this way.

Narrowing down a pool of seven players to four scumspects (taking out yourself and an un CC'd PR as two of your three townreads) means pretty much nothing. Saying that scum is most likely in there is like saying there are most likely clouds in the sky. It's an easy way to make it look like you are trying to scum hunt when really, you left all attainable lynches open except for sthar.

Lastly, your theory about lynching active players with content makes no sense and promotes lurking.

Whatever, I have weak reads, and I understand that. I doesn't promote lurking it promotes shooting lurkers at night. He dies either way, it's really simple. "Promotes lurking" is an absurd thing to be said about me when literally for the first 2 Days my primary lynch was a lurker who had been producing little to no content.

It is not "lynch active players who have content." We have choice A and choice B. Choice A and Choice B are both going to die. Choice A has been talked about and re-discussed time and time again. Choice B has not. We have two tools of execution, both of with will be used, each on one of Choice A and B. The first execution tool requires town collaboration and effort/wagoning. This tool requires discussion and dedication as a whole to be able to commit behind. As such, it should always be used in a way such that the discussed material helps bring more "knowledge to the table" so-to-speak. Since Choice A has been talked about a ton it is better to use this tool to focus on Choice B. Talking about Choice B allows the town to gain new perspectives on how outed scum interacted with Choice B, how outed town interacted with Choice B, etc. Attention being brought to these details can possibly help town in locating scum. None of these benefits happen if this execution tool is used on Choice A, since it has *already been discussed.* Luckily, the second execution tool requires no collaboration, and since Choice A has already been discussed in detail, the secondary execution tool can be used to simply remove them from the map of the game. This is the most efficient way of killing both Choice A and Choice B given the two execution tools provided.


"Lynch players with content" is not the cause for my reference, it is a coincidental happenstance. What I am saying is "Lynch the person who has been discussed less." If I was the lurker and he was the one heavy with content (Which is kind of true, to be honest- at this point Ger has talked about way more things than I have), I would still prefer it this way. NK people that the town can't decide on/have been discussed a ton yet someone avoided lynches, and use the actual lynch on people who are still considered scummy but haven't been talked about. Lynches/wagons are tools not only to kill people but to also bring attention to facts, details, etc., that can be used for future lynches.

[Slandaar]

I was going back from your most recent posts, and I read post 694 which said what you thought about the previous day. Your previous mention of élysé was some comments directed to them in post 506. You did not mention at any point between 11th May and 21st may élysé.
I believe I am perfectly fair in trying you did not make élysé one of your scum targets yesterday and I did not misrepresent you and I did not do a lazy read on you.

I was voting her for 9/10ths of the day. I didn't really focus on her in my posting past a point but that was partly because she didn't post much, partly to do with my style and obviously there was more than one scum to find so... Point is you have somehow managed to use a post of mine that isn't a reads list as a reads list and I think anyone who did pay attention would have been able to see Elyse was my top scumread for most of the day.

[Kalimar]

beep