433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[gorckat]

Certainly this could be honest investigation...

You've hedged like this every time you cast any suspicion on me. How is that any different than you saying I'm implying suspicion?

I haven't wanted to, because I'm stubborn and cling to earlier ideas that made sense at the time, but perhaps I was wrong about putting you with the town, OTM.

I think flea is our best bet for a lynch today. string was scummy, and flea hasn't added anything to change that opinion.

vote:somestrangeflea

[Off the Mark]

I hedge like that because I want to make it clear that I am only considering possibilities. When I have a conviction about something (which is rare in this game, that I am sure of something) I will say so. Whenever players seem to be sure of something based on sketchy evidence, I immediately think scum. I know I tend to speculate a lot, so I'm making it clear that's that it is: speculation.

[Off the Mark]

You've hedged like this every time you cast any suspicion on me. How is that any different than you saying I'm implying suspicion?

You're right about that, it is similar.

[gorckat]

Being sure of things based on sketchiness is scummy to you. Is probing and not being sure scummy as well?

If so, what is not scummy, then?

[Off the Mark]

You're doing it again.

When you keep asking probing/accusatory questions, but you don't ever follow them up by stating suspicions/opions, then it seems you must have an alternate motive.

[gorckat]

What if I ask a probing question (such as why'd you avoid a question, or why'd pj distinguish between 2 and 3 scum) and it gets answered to my satisfaction? Do I have to enumerate that each time?

In a quick skim of my Day 2 posts, I see a lot of opinions.

[Off the Mark]

Hey I'm not voting for you, am I? So clearly I don't feel THAT strongly about this scumtell. But I do think it is worth discussing.

[gorckat]

But you have voted me, and keep insinuating that I could, maybe, possibly be scummy, although I could, possibly, maybe be town as well. I guess I'm sort-of calling pot/kettle here.

I need to re-read pj's case and driectly repsond to that since he

is

voting.

[gorckat]

Addressing pj's 766:

1) I did have far fewer posts than thorgot then (2 vs 5 or 6). I was offline, since a lot of my posting is done from work, which was out of service for 7 or 8 days, and I'd had a lot going on at home. I'd have to look to see why string chose thorgot- I think because thorgot was posting and someone called him on pressuring apparently flaked players.

2) iirc, the game was very slow, and the preceding post lays out the joke logic I was working with: third longest lurker was obv scum. Correcting for InHim, pete d should've been my target, not string.

3) It looks like OTM had already expressed suspicion of kilm, string found her scummy, and I had a direct question ignored. Also note that I unvoted kilm to vote thorgot per #2.

5) touched on in 3, it looks like. You completely misrepresent my post,

LOL

. I laid out why thorgot/OTM was at the top with kilm. Also see post 560 where I specifiy what I felt were the strongest points against InHim.

(How do you do that direct link to a post thing? Is it a URL hack?)

Since you linked directly to the posts, I don't think you were deliberately trying to misrepresent things, but all the points you bring up have been addressed in-game.

@pie: Did you ever read those links you asked me for?

[pete d]

ok, flea's had ample opportunity to post something of substance.

vote: somestrangeflea

[Dasquian]

Still here, and still happy to pressure flea. I'd also like to note that he's on lynch -2, for whatever that's worth.

On kilm's no lynch - sorry, I agree with OTM, I don't think this is a good idea, we really need to nail scum (or at least give the various killing groups enough information to kill each other). Going no lynch won't help with that.

On gorckat - throughout this game people have pointed the finger at gorckat for being scummy, enough people that it can't just be a few wayward OMGUSes or attempts to get a townie lynched. I've not really understood this case and still don't, so I am, genuinely, missing something - I'll have a reread and rethink but my gut still says he's town.

[Pie_is_good]

From my own experience, when CES is actually helpful, he turns out to be scum, and when he is being completely useless, he is often town. Do you agree or disagree with this? I just want to gauge how you read CES, since I probably do it differently than most people.

Given that this is the second game I've played with CES, I'm going to pass judgement.

So he can just lurk his way to victory? Maybe he's lurking because he sees that everyone thinks he is scummy and he's figured, "Well frig that game then." Who knows?

Yes, exactly.

Who Knows?

Why take a risk on a lurker when we have information?

re: SSF Wagon

Not completely feeling this one, but I'll reread. What mostly disturbs me about this bandwagon is how quickly it took off. In my experience, scum are less likely to bus their partners as the game (is at/approaches) LyLo.

[Off the Mark]

In my experience, scum are less likely to bus their partners as the game (is at/approaches) LyLo.

So... wouldn't it follow then that ssf is MORE likely to be scum, since this bandwagon is moving along (well, compared to the in-general glacial pace of this game, it is moving) and we ARE fairly close to lylo?

vote: somestrangeflea

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen. I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared. That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

[pete d]

Why take a risk on a lurker when we have information?

We are not "tak(ing) a risk on a lurker". We have genuine reasons to be voting superstring / flea which have already been presented. Superstring lurking for some parts of the game =/= we have no information on string / flea.

[somestrangeflea]

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen.

This is always a slight scumtell in my mind. It seems to me that players who claim to want something to happen (or, at least, the first in a "wanting something to happen" group"), are scum more often than not.

I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive.

But how am I meant to defend myself against what SS did?

But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared.

That's

exactly

what I did! You don't get any points though, because it was

fairly

obvious.

That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

Why would scum be more likely to "vanish" in a no-win situation than Townies? The situation is equally dire for a player of either alignment!

[Off the Mark]

^^^ true, interesting that you immediately saw things from the scum perspective as well. I guess I felt it would be more dire if you felt "the town is WRONG and I have to do something about it" rather then "well they caught me". The first situation seems more like one worth fighting for, don't you think?

[Dasquian]

But how am I meant to defend myself against what SS did?

It's a time-old conundrum, and an entirely reasonable thing to complain about. You are, unfortunately, lumbered with a predecessor's actions you can't explain or justify.

However, MBL gave it a good go and, in my opinion at least, made himself look more town because of it. If you're town, you can undo some of the damage superstring did by convincing us he really was just a town lurker by virtue of you being a non-scummy non-lurker. I think the objection presented that you've replaced in and appear to have rolled over isn't unfair. Moreover, if you're town we cannot afford for you to do this, for obvious reasons.

Or in other words, what OTM just said.

[Pie_is_good]

re: Gorc's previous games

Yes, I did, and I don't think they're in your favor.

Also, I'm finding something a bit off about how Gorc keeps asking me if I've read his games... I can't decide if it's scummy or not yet, but I'm posting this for later reference.

[Thestatusquo]

Gorckat (pie)
Superstring (dasq)
SSF (gorckat peted OtM)
No lynch (kilm)

[Off the Mark]

Superstring = SSF

SSF is at lynch -1 then, with only kilm or pie left to pull the trigger. It concerns me that scum are willing to bus SSF, (unless there are only 2 scum, and Pie is the other one) this makes me think we may be on the wrong track here.

Experiment time.

unvote, vote: gorckat

[pete d]

^^^ It concerns me how apparently little confidence you had in your -1 vote on SSF.

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen.

Experiment time.

Do not like

[Off the Mark]

I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly.

[petroleumjelly]

I've had to move, pack, unpack, and start things for school, and I just read and posted in another game and I'm too tired to do so in this game. I expect to be busy tomorrow as well (Mock Trial starts, bleah), so I should hopefully be back to speed by Wednesday. Apologies about the lack of advance warning, I was hoping school wouldn't be taking such a large chink of my time so soon.

[petroleumjelly]

Afterthought: Has SSF read the game yet? I've read it twice by this time, so he shouldn't have had had any trouble reading it once through by now.

[Dasquian]

I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly.

I don't like it either, fwiw. A few posts ago you were following an entirely reasonable line of enquiry against SSF and the way he worded his post. Without him responding to it, you've apparently decided that that is old hat and it's time to "try something out". At the very least, it's somewhat risky play for the current situation. Added to that, I just don't think it's a very good trap.

Back to SSF, I'm disappointed we're not seeing more from him. We may well be lynching a townie and I see the argument that if he were scum, it wouldn't have gotten to -1 so quickly. He's *still* the scummiest person in the game though, so what are we supposed to do? If he's going to actively lurk his way out of it (which is a tactic OtM seems more than happy to facilitate), I propose that we

must

lynch him.