433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[Off the Mark]

In my experience, scum are less likely to bus their partners as the game (is at/approaches) LyLo.

So... wouldn't it follow then that ssf is MORE likely to be scum, since this bandwagon is moving along (well, compared to the in-general glacial pace of this game, it is moving) and we ARE fairly close to lylo?

vote: somestrangeflea

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen. I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared. That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

[pete d]

Why take a risk on a lurker when we have information?

We are not "tak(ing) a risk on a lurker". We have genuine reasons to be voting superstring / flea which have already been presented. Superstring lurking for some parts of the game =/= we have no information on string / flea.

[somestrangeflea]

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen.

This is always a slight scumtell in my mind. It seems to me that players who claim to want something to happen (or, at least, the first in a "wanting something to happen" group"), are scum more often than not.

I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive.

But how am I meant to defend myself against what SS did?

But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared.

That's

exactly

what I did! You don't get any points though, because it was

fairly

obvious.

That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

Why would scum be more likely to "vanish" in a no-win situation than Townies? The situation is equally dire for a player of either alignment!

[Off the Mark]

^^^ true, interesting that you immediately saw things from the scum perspective as well. I guess I felt it would be more dire if you felt "the town is WRONG and I have to do something about it" rather then "well they caught me". The first situation seems more like one worth fighting for, don't you think?

[Dasquian]

But how am I meant to defend myself against what SS did?

It's a time-old conundrum, and an entirely reasonable thing to complain about. You are, unfortunately, lumbered with a predecessor's actions you can't explain or justify.

However, MBL gave it a good go and, in my opinion at least, made himself look more town because of it. If you're town, you can undo some of the damage superstring did by convincing us he really was just a town lurker by virtue of you being a non-scummy non-lurker. I think the objection presented that you've replaced in and appear to have rolled over isn't unfair. Moreover, if you're town we cannot afford for you to do this, for obvious reasons.

Or in other words, what OTM just said.

[Pie_is_good]

re: Gorc's previous games

Yes, I did, and I don't think they're in your favor.

Also, I'm finding something a bit off about how Gorc keeps asking me if I've read his games... I can't decide if it's scummy or not yet, but I'm posting this for later reference.

[Thestatusquo]

Gorckat (pie)
Superstring (dasq)
SSF (gorckat peted OtM)
No lynch (kilm)

[Off the Mark]

Superstring = SSF

SSF is at lynch -1 then, with only kilm or pie left to pull the trigger. It concerns me that scum are willing to bus SSF, (unless there are only 2 scum, and Pie is the other one) this makes me think we may be on the wrong track here.

Experiment time.

unvote, vote: gorckat

[pete d]

^^^ It concerns me how apparently little confidence you had in your -1 vote on SSF.

I'm getting rather bored of this game, it's time for something to happen.

Experiment time.

Do not like

[Off the Mark]

I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly.

[petroleumjelly]

I've had to move, pack, unpack, and start things for school, and I just read and posted in another game and I'm too tired to do so in this game. I expect to be busy tomorrow as well (Mock Trial starts, bleah), so I should hopefully be back to speed by Wednesday. Apologies about the lack of advance warning, I was hoping school wouldn't be taking such a large chink of my time so soon.

[petroleumjelly]

Afterthought: Has SSF read the game yet? I've read it twice by this time, so he shouldn't have had had any trouble reading it once through by now.

[Dasquian]

I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly.

I don't like it either, fwiw. A few posts ago you were following an entirely reasonable line of enquiry against SSF and the way he worded his post. Without him responding to it, you've apparently decided that that is old hat and it's time to "try something out". At the very least, it's somewhat risky play for the current situation. Added to that, I just don't think it's a very good trap.

Back to SSF, I'm disappointed we're not seeing more from him. We may well be lynching a townie and I see the argument that if he were scum, it wouldn't have gotten to -1 so quickly. He's *still* the scummiest person in the game though, so what are we supposed to do? If he's going to actively lurk his way out of it (which is a tactic OtM seems more than happy to facilitate), I propose that we

must

lynch him.

[Off the Mark]

I know ssf is being completely scummy and unhelpful. But I can't help but think that real scum would have more motivation to try to steer us in the wrong direction at this point. Also, I don't think scum would be so willing to quickly bus another scum at this point. I know all my arguments on string/ssf were reasonable, but the voting pattern worries me. So now I think Gorck/Pete D are scum.

[Dasquian]

pie has already pointed out that the biggest risk to scum are other scum/SK. If it looks like ss/ssf is going down, the last thing you'd want to do is be nicely tied to him so that you get popped off in the night, rather than having a chance to talk your way out of the noose on day 3.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a scum would bus ssf. In fact, like pie suggests is good for the town (and what I just think is too optimistic to hope for), I think it'd be less likely for scum to quicklynch a townie, and again risk getting popped off at night.

Which still implies gorckat and/or pete d might be scum, of course It's also possible that the scum are ssf, pj and pie, and actually the ssf bandwagon picked up speed due to its merits as a correct bandwagon... a scum looking scummy and getting bandwagonned for it has got to happen some of the time, right?

Conclusion: ssf is still the technically "best" bandwagon, IMO. I don't think it's too obvious to be wrong, and so I'm loathe to second-guess it in favour of assuming he's a townie and wondering who is pulling the strings.

[Off the Mark]

Maybe Dasq is the 3rd scum... PJ, Pie, and Kilm (and myself of course) all seem a lot more townish to me right now than Dasq, Pete, and Gorck. SSF I have no idea, but we also have an SK role still out there too.

[Dasquian]

So... wouldn't it follow then that ssf is MORE likely to be scum, since this bandwagon is moving along (well, compared to the in-general glacial pace of this game, it is moving) and we ARE fairly close to lylo?

It concerns me that scum are willing to bus SSF, (unless there are only 2 scum, and Pie is the other one) this makes me think we may be on the wrong track here.

I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly.

I know ssf is being completely scummy and unhelpful.

Maybe Dasq is the 3rd scum... PJ, Pie, and Kilm (and myself of course) all seem a lot more townish to me right now than Dasq, Pete, and Gorck. SSF I have no idea, but we also have an SK role still out there too.

(Slightly OMGUS)

FOS: OtM.

You're all over the place.

[Off the Mark]

I admit to being confused.

[Off the Mark]

And actually, of those quotes you quoted, #2, #3, #4 (considering that statement was followed by a BUT), and #5 are in absolute agreement with each other. And #1 is not a strong point, it's a response to Pie's theory. You are trying to misrepresent my opinions.

[Dasquian]

In what way? Those posts were

all from the same page

. At the top of the page - 2 days ago - you rip into flea with:

I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared. That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

Then,

without anyone moving any votes

, a day later, you decide that the bandwagon is on the wrong track and move your vote to gorckat. Am I wrong in thinking that this is a little odd? I can't also help but wonder if pie's post 787 was perhaps a contributing factor - did you maybe think that with pie saying gorckat's previous games weren't in his favour, there was an opening to swing the attention to him?

Please explain why you had a change of heart. gorckat and pete d were already voting ssf when you joined them. I still think the pressure should stay on ssf for now, but I would love to hear what you're thinking on this one.

And as you may have gathered, I was less than impressed that the simple act of agreeing with pete d that your actions were dodgy suddenly puts me as being a possible third scum (though granted, that in itself seems to be more of a naive town tell). I freely admit the OMGUS bias here, but I think it's worth bringing up.

[Off the Mark]

Seeing the vote count and analyzing it is what changed my mind.

[Thestatusquo]

Gorckat (pie OtM)
SSF (gorckat peted dasq)
No lynch (kilm)

[Off the Mark]

Just to finish off the vote count:

Not voting: PJ and SSF

Interested in hearing others' opinions on the latest developments.

[Off the Mark]

So, Dasq, what's your theory about my behavior then? You gave me an FOS, so you must have one.

You think I'm scum with superstring/ssf? Look over Day2, that sure doesn't make much sense. I did the PBPA that made him look scummy as hell. I voted for him, including a lynch-1 vote.

I can't be scum with string/ssf, not after being the one to build a case against him. And I wouldn't switch my vote away from him if I were scum and he was a townie, right? So, the only remaining possibility is that I am not scum and I legitimately changed my mind. I know you are a sharp guy, so since you didn't think about these things from a true scumhunting perspective, I feel I must:

FOS: Dasquian

[Off the Mark]

And I realize that type of argument involves a lot of WIFOM, but that would be some kinda crazy master plan if I was doing all that superstring analysis and voting for him all for distancing purposes. Not likely.