Mini 1604 -- Zodiac Mafia (Game Over)

[RedCoyote]

Aquarians present themselves in one of two ways. One on hand, you’ll see someone who is shy, and quiet. On the other, an Aquarian can be boisterous, eccentric, and energetic. Both are deep thinkers with a love of helping others. Highly intellectual, this is a sign of fierce independence that prizes intuition tempered with logic. Both personality types have an uncanny ability to see both sides of an argument without prejudice, making them excellent problem-solvers. While very much attuned to the energies around them, Aquarians have a deep need to take time out alone and away to rejuvenate themselves. The keyword for this sign is imagination. The Aquarian can see a world of possibilities even when there appears to be none.

Aquarius' lucky numbers today: 38, 20, 16, 45, 3, 41

"Someone has to die in order that the rest of us should value life more." - Virginia Woolf

---

Vote Count 1 - 1

• Xayzeck (2) ( Witness Protection -
  StrangerCoug
  - Elyse)
  Witness Protection (2) ( PeregrineV - Iecerint)
  
  Iecerint (1) (
  StrangerCoug
  - Xayzeck)
  PeregrineV (1) ( Gemini Blind)
  Dry-fit (1) ( burn_209)
  burn_209 (1) ( Salamence20 -
  PeregrineV
  )
  StrangerCoug (1) ( Dry-fit)
  Gemini Blind (1) ( Nachomamma8)
  Salamence20 (1) ( StrangerCoug)
  
  Juls (0) (

  Iecerint

  )
  
  
  Nachomamma8 (0) (

  Elyse

  )
  
  Not Voting (1) (
  PeregrineV
  -
  Salamence20
  -
  Xayzeck
  - Juls -
  Witness Protection
  -
  StrangerCoug
  -
  Gemini Blind
  -
  Dry-fit
  -
  burn_209
  -
  Nachomamma8
  -
  Elyse
  -
  Iecerint
  )

With twelve alive, it takes seven to lynch.
Current Deadline:

(expired on 2014-09-08 15:35:00)

[Salamence20]

Ah, Red does the Vi/Tierce style of VCs. Cool

SC I'm not understanding your logic on how scum control the dayvig

[Gemini Blind]

So, Juls, did you get a reaction you were looking for with that, or are you still looking?

[Gemini Blind]

-JR

[Iecerint]

I think it was more like flirting.

[StrangerCoug]

Ah, Red does the Vi/Tierce style of VCs. Cool

SC I'm not understanding your logic on how scum control the dayvig

I really don't know if that is the case as phrased right now, but in that case scum would want as little outside input as possible in the first place. Depending on how exactly the dayvig works and the game situation at the time, they could use it to get rid of a threat (if they submit the daykill privately), use it on lynchbait (if they have to do it privately), or use it on a scumbuddy that needs to be bussed.

If the dayvig is town, then allowing input from other people can easily allow scum to misdirect the kill on whomever they want. It's a super-old game, but my first time being vig here is a good example of why I believe what I do about directing the vig. I let other people direct my kills, and guess what happened?

[Salamence20]

Well, problem is is that if dayvig was to out, we could lynch someone we find scummy later (based on a majority) and have them shot then lynch. I dont see how scum could control it if a majority of players agree on the vig target.

[Gemini Blind]

I suspect scum could control a dayvig kill in the same way they could control a lynch. That said even though a dayvig could be controlled by scum, since it's day one, we can certainly garner information from the kill, and it's not necessarily certain. Since the daykill is not indicative of alignment or role or anything, I think it might benefit the town to know who possessed it at least before we go to night (if the kill is not executed in thread).

Ultimately, it is in the hands of whoever has it, as per the alignment of the stars in the beginning of the game affecting, influencing, and ultimately controlling the RNG that determined who had the kill.

~STD

[StrangerCoug]

^ This.

But yeah. Letting the dayvig decide on his own may not seem like the best idea on the surface—and it could very well be in unskilled hands—but it's better than essentially giving the scum a kill they don't deserve.

[Dry-fit]

What are you trying to accomplish with this question?

I wanted to see if she was fake scumhunting.

At first I didn't like Elyse's response but the more I think about it the more I like it. I think responding to Gemini Blind's question in a way that didn't directly say she was suspicious of Xay was an honest response.

I'm inclined to think the scum are among the players focusing on dayvig stuff. Aka StrangerCoug and Salamence. And to a lesser extent maybe Gmini Blind.

[Gemini Blind]

I'm inclined to think the scum are among the players focusing on dayvig stuff. Aka StrangerCoug and Salamence. And to a lesser extent maybe Gmini Blind.

Um. Why?

~STD

[Dry-fit]

Scum in my experience tend to be more concerned about setup/role stuff on day 1.

[Elyse]

It's also something easy to talk about and make it look like you're doing stuff - when really, you're not giving any opinions on players' alignments and such.

[Xayzeck]

I thought Elyse just pulled something out of her ass to avoid suspicion from just jumping onto the wagon tbh

Dry, why are you specifically stating you aren't going to wagon me?

[Salamence20]

Getting out of RVS is always protown

[Xayzeck]

It's also something easy to talk about and make it look like you're doing stuff - when really, you're not giving any opinions on players' alignments and such.

Likewise talking about theory also has the same effect

[Gemini Blind]

So you'd rather let the dayvig just fester and hope it's not a dayvig that isn't reveled publically? Honestly I don't know much about dayvigs, they weren't really a thing in my day. But if we get a kill and no claim to who made it, it's only helpful for scum in my opinion.

I suppose if the dayvig has to kill publically, like I said, they can do what they want, but if privately I'd like them to claim.

Also the argument of doing stuff to appear helpful I'm not sure has a lot of legs on D1 page 3.

~STD

[Elyse]

@MOD:
Is the day kill made publicly in the thread?

@Xay
Are you being facetious?

[Xayzeck]

nah i was being pretty serious

setup spec = appear being useful

theory talk = appear being useful (esp when dryfit has kinda already cleared it up)

[Elyse]

Oh ok yeah I agree.

I thought you were saying that I was discussing theory in an attempt to do what I was saying scum typically do.

[Xayzeck]

kinda

you said setup spec was appearing to be useful

and i felt that you adding to the theory discussion is just something you could be doing to appear useful, especially since dryfit already briefly answered it. it was unneeded contribution that doesn't help us find scum, but makes you look like an active contributor

therefore it is scummy

UNVOTE:

ice is probtown btw

give me a bit to decide between elyse and WP for now, since there seems to be something going on with WP

[burn_209]

Yea Im on the same page as SC at the moment. At first I thought it was really weird that Salamence would want the Day Vig to come out right away. In my opinion the Vig should stay hidden and make a decision based on their own intuition and logic. Its their day kill not ours. Its easy for mafia to manipulate people and keep banging away at someone to get them to do something. At least if the Vig stays hidden the mafia cant concentrate on one player.

So Im going to VOTE: Salamence

[Iecerint]

The dayvig should probably claim responsibility for their dayvig after they use it rather than before just in case scum can interfere with it in some way.

The most pro-town way to use a dayvig (other than killing claimed/proven scum) is to use it to grant the town an extra lynch. This means using it on someone who's at L-1 after people have weighed in. Just FYI at any town dayvig who is contemplating how to use it.

[Iecerint]

Further discussion about the dayvig will probably provide unnecessary information about the identity of the dayvig, so there is no reason for it to continue.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm not in favor of this as it can easily allow the Mafia to influence the shot. The dayvig has a brain. That player should be allowed to use it.

I want dayvig to claim intent to shoot before actually shooting, and I want them to shoot today. I want them to shoot today because mafia probably wants to hang onto the dayvig in order to wait for earlier LyLo or a suicide shot while going down, and both of those are less advantageous than forcing mafia to take a shot they will have to explain. I also see no advantage lost from giving whoever you're going to shoot a chance to claim/give final thoughts if town.

since her having the daykill is just random and has no balance considerations, but scum need an excuse to use the daykill in a hard-to-scrutinize way

And shooting instantly is hard to scrutinize? Because I can think of a thousand things wrong with the shot if real and I'd be surprised if no one else could.

The dayvig should probably claim responsibility for their dayvig after they use it rather than before just in case scum can interfere with it in some way.

What do you imagine scum can do to a dayvig?