Open 575: Friends & Enemies-Together At Last (OVER)

[reinoe]

MOD STUFF

LOOK FRIENDS!!!!

VOTE COUNT!!!!

Wisdom-Malakittens (L-6)
DukeC-
wgeurts-VictorDeAngelo (L-6)
The Undertaker-
Newbie-
Malakittens-
SilverWolf-
Not_Mafia-
TellTaleHeart-blindmewithscience (L-6)
VictorDeAngelo-mathdino, acryon (L-5)
Mathdino-SilverWolf, Wisdom (L-5)
blindmewithscience-
acryon-

not voting-DukeC, wgeurts, The Undertaker, Newbie, Not_Mafia, TellTaleHeart,

With 13 Alive it's 7 to lynch.

(expired on 2014-10-29 07:00:00)

Tonight is a seafood buffet in the chow hall!!! Dinner is starting late because some of the enemies set off the sprinkler system in the kitchen!!!

[Mathdino]

The "Are you waiting for acryon to answer for you" was referring to the general question of "How is wgeurys scummy?"

And yes, I have to label when I wrote stuff for the same reason you write the dates in citations: context is important, and info may be outdated. I found in my first game that when I polish my posts too much or rewrite them, it looks unnatural. So now I don't delete stuff I say.

And I said it wasn't a test because I just don't do tests. I wanted to make it clear that I had actual reasons for voting you so you wouldn't want to shrug it off on account of possibly being a test.

Here's the thing though, man: Why are you questioning me 3 or 4 times instead of your vote, wgeurys? What's your read on me?

[Newbie]

I find it weird that wgeurts unlynched wisdom when he started to receive a bit of heat for it.

[acryon]

Also, why does it bother you that I'm not voting him?
Are you possibly scum knowing he's town?
As far as I know we're still only just leaving RVS.

It doesn't bother me personally that you're not voting him. But if you are interested in getting out of RVS(which I think we are by now), then I don't know that voting and then un-voting after one exchange is going to give the reactions necessary to do that.

Well then you aren't thinking hard enough, because of the handful of posts you have had, they have certainly been suspect.

Care to explain what is suspect about them may I ask?

It's nothing major, but the fact that you expressed your unwillingness to vote until there is more information and then turning around and voting Wisdom was kind of an odd move.
43 with the comment "It's time for me to wait some more" just sounded very off IMO. At first you make it sound like you don't vote in RVS, then you vote in RVS, then when someone calls you out on that you decide that it's time to wait again. Then you say there is nothing to gain from the Wisdom vote in 48 which is odd considering the whole point of voting in RVS is to see what comes out, so why would you decide that nothing would come of it?

I didn't say it was super scummy, but I think it'd be a little silly to say that your early set of posts weren't at least a little bit "odd" and at least somewhat deserving of a second look/pressure vote.

[acryon]

Newbie is probtown.

Why?

[VictorDeAngelo]

The "Are you waiting for acryon to answer for you" was referring to the general question of "How is wgeurys scummy?"

Oh OK.

And yes, I have to label when I wrote stuff for the same reason you write the dates in citations: context is important, and info may be outdated. I found in my first game that when I polish my posts too much or rewrite them, it looks unnatural. So now I don't delete stuff I say.

Hmmm. OK. I would say you don't have to do that per say, despite what happened in Mafia with a twist. It actually looks scummy for a player to overexplain/cite particularly if they don't normally do it when their town (which you don't appear to).

And I said it wasn't a test because I just don't do tests. I wanted to make it clear that I had actual reasons for voting you so you wouldn't want to shrug it off on account of possibly being a test.

Tests are fun and sometimes valuable. But OK, if it's not a test you could just, you know, say nothing.

Here's the thing though, man: Why are you questioning me 3 or 4 times instead of your vote, wgeurys?

I'm enjoying questioning, and at this precise moment in time I don't wish to question wgeurys.

What's your read on me?

I'm still trying to figure that out. You've done a fair few odd things; asking prematurely for Newbie's meta; overexplaining your actions but something you said this post has made me wonder if I am wrong on my reasons for one of those things. I'm going to say null.

[TellTaleHeart]

Alright, I have high hopes for this game!
VOTE: TellTaleHeart for referencing Poe. He wrote about death! Is obvious mafia!

Spoiler:

Also:
VOTE: Wisdom

[Mathdino]

Hmmm. OK. I would say you don't have to do that per say, despite what happened in Mafia with a twist. It actually looks scummy for a player to overexplain/cite particularly if they don't normally do it when their town (which you don't appear to).

Uh, hate to talk about that game but IIRC, that's exactly what I do. I find that transparent play helps me communicate and makes my thought process clearer instead of being out of thin air. I seem to recall explaining that (correct me if I'm wrong).

Points for doing your homework, E for effort

TTH, why Wisdom, or was that a random vote?

acryon, I like how you preempted Victor and incentivised not answering our questions to him.
Not sure what to make of acryon but it very much seems like him and Victor aren't scum together, so I'll hold off on that ping for now.

I agree with Mala; Newbie and Wisdom both seem town. NM is acting townish, I don't have enough for a read yet though.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, why Wisdom, or was that a random vote?

It was not a random vote and I will explain later.

[SilverWolf]

I find it weird that wgeurts unlynched wisdom when he started to receive a bit of heat for it.

I agree, this seems odd. There should be no problem explaining your vote, even if others don't agree with it. It appeared to be a pressure vote due to Wisdom's liking wagons. So why not stick with it? It seems wgeurts got a little nervous there under pressure. Is it newb town or newb scum? I can't tell at this point. I'm also a newbie at this game. It seems worth taking a note of however.

I liked his explanation that he was pulling kind of a Slayer's gambit to see if he could get scum to jump on him for it so that kind of seems like he's trying to scum hunt so because of that, I'm willing to hold off on a vote for him until I see more from him. FoS Wgeurts

[SilverWolf]

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?

I'm not sure what the problem is. I would think getting meta would be sharing useful information. I intend to look at meta of the players here. So even though you said you wanted to know why mathdino wanted that particular info. I guess I fail to see the problem with this and your explanation really didn't help me much. You are making way too much of a simple question as though you are looking for a reason to suspect someone. It's possible you just want to question Mathdino like you said, but this seems an odd thing to question him about. This is something else I am taking note of. FoS VictorDeAngelo

[SilverWolf]

I'm getting a slight town feel on Mathdino due to the detail of his posts and willingness to discuss and share info. I also like his line of questioning of the other players. Not getting much from anyone else yet except the 3 I have mentioned.

UNVOTE: Mathdino

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

Better vote.

[Newbie]

Newbie is probtown.

Why?

Waiting for Malakittens to answer this.

[Mathdino]

Slayer's Gambit is bad but it very much seems on purpose rather than backtracking. Of course, since I can't quite tell which part of wgeurys's play fell under that gambit, that nullifies my entire read on him.

Which is exactly the problem with the gambit; it's the town's

job

to point out scummy behaviour, and if anything a lot of scum players don't want to be caught on a town lynch in the first place. And like I said, it makes you basically unreadable.

[wgeurts]

I find it weird that wgeurts unlynched wisdom when he started to receive a bit of heat for it.

I agree, this seems odd. There should be no problem explaining your vote, even if others don't agree with it. It appeared to be a pressure vote due to Wisdom's liking wagons. So why not stick with it? It seems wgeurts got a little nervous there under pressure. Is it newb town or newb scum? I can't tell at this point. I'm also a newbie at this game. It seems worth taking a note of however.

I liked his explanation that he was pulling kind of a Slayer's gambit to see if he could get scum to jump on him for it so that kind of seems like he's trying to scum hunt so because of that, I'm willing to hold off on a vote for him until I see more from him. FoS Wgeurts

There was pressure on me?
I was litteraly basing a push off nothing to see how he would react. I then also applied a vote as to apply a little more pressure. If you look I used my vote as a tool, to pressure him. It wasn't a random
vote as it had a reasons (however weak) to be made.

[Malakittens]

Newbie is probtown.

Why?

Mainly gut in accordance to how her posts are coming off. She doesn't really come off panicky or nervous or anything like that. Her giving out the information about the sites etc doesn't feel like it's from a scum agenda.

[wgeurts]

Also, why does it bother you that I'm not voting him?
Are you possibly scum knowing he's town?
As far as I know we're still only just leaving RVS.

It doesn't bother me personally that you're not voting him. But if you are interested in getting out of RVS(which I think we are by now), then I don't know that voting and then un-voting after one exchange is going to give the reactions necessary to do that.

Well then you aren't thinking hard enough, because of the handful of posts you have had, they have certainly been suspect.

Care to explain what is suspect about them may I ask?

It's nothing major, but the fact that you expressed your unwillingness to vote until there is more information and then turning around and voting Wisdom was kind of an odd move.
43 with the comment "It's time for me to wait some more" just sounded very off IMO. At first you make it sound like you don't vote in RVS, then you vote in RVS, then when someone calls you out on that you decide that it's time to wait again. Then you say there is nothing to gain from the Wisdom vote in 48 which is odd considering the whole point of voting in RVS is to see what comes out, so why would you decide that nothing would come of it?

I didn't say it was super scummy, but I think it'd be a little silly to say that your early set of posts weren't at least a little bit "odd" and at least somewhat deserving of a second look/pressure vote.

I should of been clearer, I don't vote for no reasons in the RVS, that doesn't mean I won't vote. There was also nothing to gain from the wisdom exchange as there were no real reads/tells to base it off. However it did achieve it's goal of making us leave RVS.
Another point, is it scummy to say you're going to abstain or to just abstain and lurk?

[Malakittens]

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

@wgeurts: RVS wagons can be good ways of getting reactions out of people. Why so concerned?

Speaking of reactions, you're kind of under the heat Mathdino. How does it feel? Why are you town?

I really don't like this post by Acryon. Like it really it feels sort forced.

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?

I also really don't like this coming from VDA. I don't get what the problem with asking for meta is to be brutally honest. I also do that for newer players if I can because it helps in the sorting process.

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?

I think it's fine. Especially with someone who seems to be new, it's nice to get a feel for how they play so you don't end up just writing off the things they do as "newbie".

I don't like Acyron injecting here.

So I'm going to just:

VOTE: Acryon

Because this is an avenue I want to explore.

Well Newbie, that explains your wallposting, haha. Are there any records left of one of your scum games and town games?

Hey Math, why so keen to get some early meta off Newbie?

I think it's fine. Especially with someone who seems to be new, it's nice to get a feel for how they play so you don't end up just writing off the things they do as "newbie".

Thanks Mathdino that's what I wanted to.....hold up a sec. Your not Mathdino.

Like VDA response here because it's very similar to mine.

Yeah, I also feel Victor's question was kind of useless and maybe even a little loaded. There are not many reasons one wants to get meta.

Like this post.^

@wgeurts: Yet if everyone did that, nothing would happen, haha. I used to hate RVS but it's important for reaction fishing.
^Not liking RVS isn't a scumtell though, if anything it's a noobtowntell IMO.

@Victor: So that way when I inevitably ISO Newbie I'll have a meta to compare to. I don't want to bother waiting until Newbie's got a wagon on (him? her?) to skim a meta.

@Newbie: Yeah linking would cool, thanks.

@acryon: I'm not gonna get random-lynched and I'm really bad at feeling anything during games, haha. Talk to me after the game and I'll let out the rage.
Not really sure what you want me to say to "Why are you town?" other than I got a town PM. I'm not going to self-meta (I don't even have a scum meta yet) and I don't appreciate people trying to prove how town they are since it's easily WIFOM'd.

Edit: ^Written before post #38, gimme a sec.

Well part of me likes this comment and then part of me hates other parts of it.

I also don't see how not liking RVS is a noobtowntell though.
Like his response to VDA.

I hate his response to Acryon. I hate the fact he's confident that he won't get random lynched.

[Malakittens]

Alright, I have high hopes for this game!
VOTE: TellTaleHeart for referencing Poe. He wrote about death! Is obvious mafia!

Spoiler:

Also:
VOTE: Wisdom

Why?

I also don't like this post because it comes off as a RVS vote or if it's not a RVS there's no reasoning attached to it. There's content, RVS is over yet nothing was commented besides the vote on him followed by the attachment of the Wisdom vote.

I'm getting a slight town feel on Mathdino due to the detail of his posts and willingness to discuss and share info. I also like his line of questioning of the other players. Not getting much from anyone else yet except the 3 I have mentioned.

UNVOTE: Mathdino

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

Better vote.

Why?

It looks like a lot of this playerlist will probably be scrutinized by me from me. The many scum games that I have either modded/played with by VDA it doesn't seem to mirror them, but it doesn't mirror VDA's town play either. Something feels off about him, but I'm not exactly sure of what yet.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, why Wisdom, or was that a random vote?

It was not a random vote and I will explain later.

MathDino

: I very much disagree with your conclusions that Not_Mafia and Wisdom are town. I think they're scum.

Victor has caught a lot of heat for various reasons so far from several main players for various reasons (namely: you, acryon, and Wisdom). But there's a clear difference in approach to the overall conversation and it's reflected in the current vote count and this early posting. You, acryon, and Silver Wolf have all articulated clear problems with Victor's posting. Regardless of whether or not you agree with the reasoning, you've all backed up your convictions with clear language and a vote. In contrast, Not_Mafia and Wisdom have both telegraphed scumreads on Victor, but they seem a lot more guarded about it. Not_Mafia's tone especially come across as very flat and awkward. It leads me to the conclusion that they don't want to come across as too aggressive too early in the game and that they're worried about their public image. That seems more characteristic of scum than town.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why?

I also don't like this post because it comes off as a RVS vote or if it's not a RVS there's no reasoning attached to it. There's content, RVS is over yet nothing was commented besides the vote on him followed by the attachment of the Wisdom vote.

I explicitly told MathDino it wasn't a random vote.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yeah, I also feel Victor's question was kind of useless and maybe even a little loaded. There are not many reasons one wants to get meta.

Like this post.^

What in particular do you like about it? I feel like it's very unremarkable.

[Malakittens]

Why?

I also don't like this post because it comes off as a RVS vote or if it's not a RVS there's no reasoning attached to it. There's content, RVS is over yet nothing was commented besides the vote on him followed by the attachment of the Wisdom vote.

I explicitly told MathDino it wasn't a random vote.

Tbf I didn't see that post and I'm not entirely sure on how I missed it, but I did.

Also your last post still doesn't explain to me why you voted Wisdom over N_M. In fact your last post reads to me more that you believe N_M is scummier than Wisdom which questions why you are voting Wisdom over N_M.

Yeah, I also feel Victor's question was kind of useless and maybe even a little loaded. There are not many reasons one wants to get meta.

Like this post.^

What in particular do you like about it? I feel like it's very unremarkable.

Because it's 100% true. Like there's no reason for VDA to question Dino on the use of meta early game. Like zero because the reasoning behind wanting meta is very obvious to anyone who uses meta and coming from experience in playing with VDA he does to an extent use meta. So VDA questioning it makes very little sense and useless.

[SilverWolf]

I'm getting a slight town feel on Mathdino due to the detail of his posts and willingness to discuss and share info. I also like his line of questioning of the other players. Not getting much from anyone else yet except the 3 I have mentioned.

UNVOTE: Mathdino

VOTE: VictorDeAngelo

Better vote.

Why?

It looks like a lot of this playerlist will probably be scrutinized by me from me. The many scum games that I have either modded/played with by VDA it doesn't seem to mirror them, but it doesn't mirror VDA's town play either. Something feels off about him, but I'm not exactly sure of what yet.

I explained it some in 85 but the fact that he jumped on mathdino due to him asking Newbie for games she's played in seemed off. It seemed like a good question to me so I don't understand why VDA made such an issue of it. If you see his line of questioning, he seemed to take issue with the fact that mathdino was only asking Newbie but I still don't see the problem here so it seemed like he was forcing an issue and making a problem out of something that isn't a problem at all. Asking for games/meta is a protown thing IMO. So he seemed to be looking for a reason to cast suspicion on mathdino. Perhaps fabricating a scumread.

[TellTaleHeart]

Tbf I didn't see that post and I'm not entirely sure on how I missed it, but I did.

Also your last post still doesn't explain to me why you voted Wisdom over N_M. In fact your last post reads to me more that you believe N_M is scummier than Wisdom which questions why you are voting Wisdom over N_M.

Gut feeling. I want to see where it takes me.

Because it's 100% true. Like there's no reason for VDA to question Dino on the use of meta early game. Like zero because the reasoning behind wanting meta is very obvious to anyone who uses meta and coming from experience in playing with VDA he does to an extent use meta. So VDA questioning it makes very little sense and useless.

You can agree with it. It could be 100% true. I really don't know if it is or not, but I don't think it matters.

Wisdom could also say that about three quarters Earth's atmosphere is nitrogen. That's an entirely true statement, but isn't very revealing of alignment.