Micro 431 - Noughts and Crosses Mafia

Empking · Post Post #0 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:29 am

T-Bone	Belisarius	X Mathdino
X Kaboose	0 Pine	0 vettrock
0 Equinox F-16_Fighting_Falcon	Scripten	X RedCoyote

Welcome to the greatest show on earth. The rules are simple:Have Fun! Ha! Ha! Ha! No, but in all serious rules are as you'd expected with special rules on the wiki rules and particular rules right here.

1. Day deadlines are a week. Night deadlines are 48 hours.
2. Prods will be given for 60 hours of inactivity.
3. At deadline the player with the highest number of votes will be lynched. If that is a tie the player who last had the highest number of votes to be lynched. If no votes were ever placed the day will end with a no lynch.

Empking · Post Post #1 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:45 am

So this is the moment, you've all been waiting for. The moment where we find out who is the Innocent Child. Drum roll please.
Bedebede
Bedebede
Bedebede
Pine is your Innocent Child. As a proud new owner of the central square this is, no doubt, the icing on the sundae of a most fantastic day. Do we want to say a few words, Pine? No? Well if you change your mind feel free to talk, I've some thought of Innocent Children but feel free to act as you please. You're not going to get lynched. Probably. Ha ha ha. No I'm sure we're going to have a fantastic time.
"More knowledge of players' alignments!"
"More knowledge of players' alignments!"
"More knowledge of players' alignments!"
Do you want what I think you want? Do you want more knowledge of players' alignments? If so, there's only one way I know to get that. 1 2 3! Get lynching!

Day One will begin presently.

Empking · Post Post #2 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:47 am

The best vote count so far

Note Voting:RedCoyote, Equinox, T-Bone, Pine, Belisarius, Kaboose, Mathdino, vettrock, Scripten
Five votes to lynch.
(expired on 2014-12-25 09:48:12)

Mathdino · Post Post #3 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:53 am

FIRRRRRRRST

VOTE: T-Bone
Because dinosaurs eat bones.

Mathdino · Post Post #4 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:54 am

lol i was right about to vote pine before i read that we had an ic this game xD

Scripten · Post Post #5 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 2:55 am

Hi Pine! Glad you're town this game.

Hi

Vettrock

, do you like noughts or crosses best?

VOTE: Mathdino

Because dinosaurs eat... rope?

P-EDIT: That was

my

first, Mathdino, you thief.

Kaboose · Post Post #6 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:16 am

VOTE: RedCoyote

Never seen a red coyote so until you prove you're real, vote goes on you.

Mathdino · Post Post #7 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:22 am

In post 5, Scripten wrote:VOTE: Mathdino

Because dinosaurs eat... rope?

That was clever.
That was really clever xD

Scripten · Post Post #8 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:25 am

In post 7, Mathdino wrote:
In post 5, Scripten wrote:VOTE: Mathdino

Because dinosaurs eat... rope?

That was clever.
That was really clever xD

I've literally been waiting for this since the beginning of Jurassic Park Mafia.

Did you know Pine was center square when you almost voted him? Or was it just seeing him in the playerlist?

Mathdino · Post Post #9 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:30 am

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose Pine vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

I feel bad saying this but we should lynch a corner.

If mafia take the centre, as they undoubtedly will, we get much more control of the board taking a corner than taking a side.

If we don't end up with scum D1, consider the following (hypothetical):
1. We lynch the scummiest corner (let's say it's T-Bone).
2. Mafia kill Pine or they have an IC surviving to D2 making it easier to catch scum.
3. We lynch opposite corner, RedCoyote.
4. Mafia are forced to kill a corner, say they kill me. (there are now 5 players, this is banking on both scum not being on the sides)
5. We lynch Equinox. Scum kill Kaboose or Scripten.
6. We lynch the other and win.

The chances of this failing (due to both scum being on sides) is 6/28, or 3/14. Since I know I'm town, for me the chances are 6/21, or 3/7.

Combined with actual scumhunting, I like those odds.

Mathdino · Post Post #10 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:31 am

In post 8, Scripten wrote:
In post 7, Mathdino wrote:
In post 5, Scripten wrote:VOTE: Mathdino

Because dinosaurs eat... rope?

That was clever.
That was really clever xD

I've literally been waiting for this since the beginning of Jurassic Park Mafia.

Did you know Pine was center square when you almost voted him? Or was it just seeing him in the playerlist?

Just seeing him, decided to vote CONFSCUM. Then I read the rules.

Scripten · Post Post #11 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:34 am

What I like about tic tac toe is that it's deterministic so whenever I do anything with it I can just program shit for me to win with. Graph theory is cool bro.

So yeah, corners. Not lynching conftown. We should still spend some time scumhunting, because if we hit scum, we're more likely to win. Center square isn't necessary to win a game so I wouldn't count on scum autolynching Pine, especially if his reads are off.

Regarding Pine: Coo coo.

Scripten · Post Post #12 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:41 am

In post 11, Scripten wrote:Center square isn't necessary to win a game so I wouldn't count on scum autolynching Pine, especially if his reads are off.

Actually, this is crazy WIFOM so please disregard. Math is right; scum will probably hit conftown/center square. No need to really setup spec any more than this. Anyone who doesn't follow, read this: How to never lose at tic tac toe (but not how to always win)

Mathdino · Post Post #13 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:45 am

That's exactly what I hate about TTT actually. Far prefer Ultimate Tic Tac Toe.

Here's a visualisation of my strategy for those of you who hate setup spec (tsk tsk tsk).

Blue is lynches, Orange is kills.

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose Pine vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose Pine vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox
Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose

Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

Mathdino · Post Post #14 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:48 am

In post 12, Scripten wrote:
In post 11, Scripten wrote:Center square isn't necessary to win a game so I wouldn't count on scum autolynching Pine, especially if his reads are off.

Actually, this is crazy WIFOM so please disregard. Math is right; scum will probably hit conftown/center square. No need to really setup spec any more than this. Anyone who doesn't follow, read this: How to never lose at tic tac toe (but not how to always win)

Yeah, see, winning at TTT is altered when certain squares can't be hit and one square is more likely to be hit. Pine being killed grants us an auto win unless we end up not being able to lynch scum. And even if he's not killed N1, we still autowin in every instance where scum don't shoot the opposite corner of the person we lynch.

And if they do that, we can just scumhunt to victory and ignore the setup.

Scripten · Post Post #15 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:51 am

In post 13, Mathdino wrote:
In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox
Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose

Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

Keep in mind that these will be subject to LyLo, however. We don't want the game to get to this point if we can help it.

PEDIT: Good point. Still, LyLo is something we should be keeping in mind. Scum can win by their normal wincon, too, and will do so earlier than town will by TTT rules.

Mathdino · Post Post #16 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:57 am

Correct, from my perspective, 3/7 of the time this won't work due to losing in LyLo.

As such, we can always completely abandon this and just find the scumteam.

Also I lol'd when I checked the wiki page. Micro 115, the first time this setup was played, town could've auto won after lynching scum D1 and mafia killing a side xD
The issue is, in order to autowin, they'd have been forced to lynch the centre, which is probably something people got cold feet about.

Mathdino · Post Post #17 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 3:59 am

I feel like something's wrong when 11/14 times the setup is completely and entirely broken.

I'm going to recommend they don't run this setup anymore.

Scripten · Post Post #18 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:03 am

In post 16, Mathdino wrote:Correct, from my perspective, 3/7 of the time this won't work due to losing in LyLo.

As such, we can always completely abandon this and just find the scumteam.

Also I lol'd when I checked the wiki page. Micro 115, the first time this setup was played, town could've auto won after lynching scum D1 and mafia killing a side xD
The issue is, in order to autowin, they'd have been forced to lynch the centre, which is probably something people got cold feet about.

That game's only five pages. It doesn't take long at all to read the whole thing. Micro 130 is longer, but not by much, and is a little more interesting. I'm about halfway through.

Scripten · Post Post #19 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:20 am

In post 18, Scripten wrote:
In post 16, Mathdino wrote:Correct, from my perspective, 3/7 of the time this won't work due to losing in LyLo.

As such, we can always completely abandon this and just find the scumteam.

Also I lol'd when I checked the wiki page. Micro 115, the first time this setup was played, town could've auto won after lynching scum D1 and mafia killing a side xD
The issue is, in order to autowin, they'd have been forced to lynch the centre, which is probably something people got cold feet about.

That game's only five pages. It doesn't take long at all to read the whole thing. Micro 130 is longer, but not by much, and is a little more interesting. I'm about halfway through.

Finished. Ended in LyLo. One of the friendliest games ever. One scum lurked a few days before being lynched and the other won LyLo due to a misinterpretation of a townie's D1 wagon. Not particularly illuminating, but it felt like good reading to prepare for this game.

Kaboose · Post Post #20 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 4:36 am

In post 13, Mathdino wrote:That's exactly what I hate about TTT actually. Far prefer Ultimate Tic Tac Toe.

Here's a visualisation of my strategy for those of you who hate setup spec (tsk tsk tsk).

Blue is lynches, Orange is kills.

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose Pine vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose Pine vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox
Scripten
RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose
Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

In post 0, Empking wrote:
T-Bone
Belisarius
Mathdino

Kaboose

Pine
vettrock
Equinox

Scripten

RedCoyote

Wouldn't it be more beneficial if the N2 kill based on this would be a side and not a corner? Because if they had pine, it would work against us as it would force us to block their next move.
I'm not going to be as fancy as you. Here is now.

X|X|X
_____
X|X|X
_____
X|X|X

If we follow your lead and lynch a corner and assuming T=Town Lynch and M=Mafia NK

We get this after D1.
T|X|X
_____
X|X|X
_____
X|X|X

You suggest they take out the IC on N1 leaving us with...

T|X|X
_____
X|M|X
_____
X|X|X

We take the opposite corner and after D2 it looks like...

T|X|X
_____
X|M|X
_____
X|X|T

Now with the board looking like that, any TTT player should know that taking a corner is auto lose if you're going second. Mafia taking a corner here puts them in a bad spot because we take the opposite corner and they'll have two sides to fill in one turn which is impossible. So the mafia would have to take a side now to go on the offensive. So N2 ends with a side lynch.

T|M|X
_____
X|M|X
_____
X|X|T

This forces us to lynch someone which means mafia control our D3 lynch assuming they're still alive. So your plan gives mafia the ability to take control of the board on N2. From here they would have it completely mapped out and we wouldn't be able to lynch who we think is scum and would be lynching simply to avoid losing the other way.

Belisarius · Post Post #21 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:02 am

I'm down with lynching a corner, but haven't decided which one, so I'm not committing a vote. I know I'm not voting Mathdino, though.

Mathdino · Post Post #22 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:03 am

Oh.

Fuck.

Any suggestions?

Scripten · Post Post #23 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:07 am

In post 21, Belisarius wrote:I'm down with lynching a corner, but haven't decided which one, so I'm not committing a vote. I know I'm not voting Mathdino, though.

Are you willing to vote T-Bone?

Kaboose · Post Post #24 (ISO) » Thu Dec 18, 2014 5:10 am

In post 21, Belisarius wrote:I'm down with lynching a corner, but haven't decided which one, so I'm not committing a vote. I know I'm not voting Mathdino, though.

Why not mathdino?

T-Bone	Belisarius	Mathdino
Kaboose	Pine	vettrock
Equinox	Scripten	RedCoyote