Micro 440: Triplicate Mafia - Game Over

[Not_Mafia]

Power

Hopkirk (0)-

Lucky2u (1)-

Hopkirk

goodmorning (0)-

Not Voting (2)-

Lucky2u, goodmorning

Wisdom

serrapaladin (0)-

Witness Protection (2)-

serrapaladin, Scripten

Scripten (0)-

Not Voting (1)-

Witness Protection

Courage

Zebulin (1)-

BBMolla

Perpetual Nonsense (0)-

BBMolla (1)-

Perpetual Nonsense

Not Voting (1)-

Zebulin

Deadline is in

(expired on 2015-02-09 20:00:00)

- Feb 9th 20:00 GMT

[Scripten]

Hey scripten, you around?

Yerp, I'm here.

[Hopkirk]

I just consulted my juju priest.

It says:

Scripten
Hopkirk
Zubullu

What the hell is a juju priest?


Witness does sound a bit off, even if you think you're the townblock you need to lynch the most scummy person in the block for obvious reasons.
@Witness: In what way would your vote/actions at the end of the day be influenced if you were (lets say 90% sure) you were part of the town group?

[goodmorning]

VOTE: zubullu

Zubullu? That hurts, man.

Why the unannounced vote on me?

Why did you meta dive them instead of commenting on someone who's actually from your group?

I tend to meta dive everyone I haven't played with before so I can get an idea of what their RVS play might mean. Perp stood out because their RVS scumplay looked significantly different from this game. I have been commenting on my own group. Haven't you noticed? Doesn't mean I'm not going to see what everyone else posts.

These are both scumposts.

To respond to Scripten: how would you know their RVS scumplay would be different before you meta'd them? I am confused. No you haven't. Jumping on the "you said we might be the all-Town bloc so CLEARLY SCUM" bandwagon barely counts and neither of your other prior posts mentions your groupmates.
Have you played with both other members of your group before?

[serrapaladin]

Tell me something about my meta, scrip?

[Hopkirk]

I don't get what's scummy about zeb's post, could you elaborate?

[goodmorning]

Trying too hard to be casual.

[serrapaladin]

GM is town

[Scripten]

1

how would you know their RVS scumplay would be different before you meta'd them? I am confused.

2

No you haven't. Jumping on the "you said we might be the all-Town bloc so CLEARLY SCUM" bandwagon barely counts and neither of your other prior posts mentions your groupmates.

3

Have you played with both other members of your group before?

1 - I didn't know until after I went meta diving. Their posting was erratic and that can sometimes mean scum. Don't think it does atm.

2 - I was the first person to say anything about his post. BBmolla said he was scum, I guess?

3 - Nope. I know serrapaladin a bit from reputation, but WP is new to me.

Tell me something about my meta, scrip?

You're harder to read during RVS because you replace more often than not. About all I could tell is that you're quick to lay votes as town and you try to pull the game out of RVS ASAP. Can't tell you what scumtells I'd find in your RVS play.

[goodmorning]

GM is town

OR AM I?!?!?!?!?!1?

1

how would you know their RVS scumplay would be different before you meta'd them? I am confused.

2

No you haven't. Jumping on the "you said we might be the all-Town bloc so CLEARLY SCUM" bandwagon barely counts and neither of your other prior posts mentions your groupmates.

3

Have you played with both other members of your group before?

1 - I didn't know until after I went meta diving. Their posting was erratic and that can sometimes mean scum. Don't think it does atm.

2 - I was the first person to say anything about his post. BBmolla said he was scum, I guess?

3 - Nope. I know serrapaladin a bit from reputation, but WP is new to me.

Then back to my original question: why PN first? Why not WP? Or even serra, if all you know about him is reputation?
As for 2, stop moving the goalpoasts; 2 out of your 3 posts didn't make any mention of your groupmates. You hadn't been talking about them in 67% of your posts. Yes, I recognise that 3 posts isn't a massive sample size BUT STILL.
(and ftr i am defining the "you said we might be the all-Town bloc so CLEARLY SCUM" thing as a bandwagon because it clearly has no basis in fact, is simply popular opinion for whatever reason) (also it looks like the kind of thing Scum would say for an easy scumread BUT I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, NOPE)

[Scripten]

Then back to my original question: why PN first? Why not WP? Or even serra, if all you know about him is reputation?

Because Perp's meta actually told me something.

As for 2, stop moving the goalpoasts; 2 out of your 3 posts didn't make any mention of your groupmates. You hadn't been talking about them in 67% of your posts. Yes, I recognise that 3 posts isn't a massive sample size BUT STILL.

But still

what

exactly? You've had seven posts and have only mentioned your groupmates in two of them, so does that mean I'm 33% scum and you're 71% scum? This is silly and smells like distraction.

The only thing from that section that could have been reasonable was if I was needlessly bandwagoning, which also wasn't happening.

(and ftr i am defining the "you said we might be the all-Town bloc so CLEARLY SCUM" thing as a bandwagon because it clearly has no basis in fact, is simply popular opinion for whatever reason) (also it looks like the kind of thing Scum would say for an easy scumread BUT I'M NOT SAYING ANYTHING ABOUT THAT, NOPE)

Did you miss my 42? There's potential scum motivation for saying what WP did, though my vote didn't have much behind it

because it was on page 1

. The only way I could see your statement working was if you were accusing me of bandwagoning BBmolla because he mentioned WP being scum before I did.

[BBmolla]

Serra and GM are town
\o/

[Zebulin]

Trying too hard to be casual.

Isn't that what RVS is supposed to be, though? If scum feel relaxed instead of pressured they are much more likely to say something stupid early game imo. That allows you to scumhunt effectively and make the right call come in-game sundown. I get that appearing town is what scum would want to do, but it's also what town wants to do. I've been mislynched in lylo my last 2 games, and this is basically 3 lylos.

VOTE: Perpetual Nonsense BBMolla's answer to my question seems town (also just seems town in general), and I don't see at all how Scripten or Hopkirk are very scummy at this stage in the game.

Also, he rejects top hats. That is a grave disappointment.

Going to meta-dive Perp and BBMolla.

[goodmorning]

Then back to my original question: why PN first? Why not WP? Or even serra, if all you know about him is reputation?

Because Perp's meta actually told me something.

Yes, but why would you think that it necessarily would? Especially given that Witness mentioned a game with this exact setup that he was in before?

As for 2, stop moving the goalpoasts; 2 out of your 3 posts didn't make any mention of your groupmates. You hadn't been talking about them in 67% of your posts. Yes, I recognise that 3 posts isn't a massive sample size BUT STILL.

But still

what

exactly? You've had seven posts and have only mentioned your groupmates in two of them, so does that mean I'm 33% scum and you're 71% scum? This is silly and smells like distraction.

I have observed a trend of you ignoring your group, which makes me think you want to fly under their radars.

Trying too hard to be casual.

Isn't that what RVS is supposed to be, though? If scum feel relaxed instead of pressured they are much more likely to say something stupid early game imo. That allows you to scumhunt effectively and make the right call come in-game sundown. I get that appearing town is what scum would want to do, but it's also what town wants to do. I've been mislynched in lylo my last 2 games, and this is basically 3 lylos.

The first three words of my post are the most important ones. Your response doesn't really make sense to me in context.

[Scripten]

Yes, but why would you think that it necessarily would? Especially given that Witness mentioned a game with this exact setup that he was in before?

I must not be explaining very well here. I meta dove every player here that I haven't played with before to get an idea about RVS play from each of them, since D1 looks very important in this setup. Most RVS play is pretty generic, but Perp's stood out from their scum play, thus I mentioned it so that others would follow in my footsteps and check their meta.

I have observed a trend of you ignoring your group, which makes me think you want to fly under their radars.

You're using some pretty strong language for all of three posts. You're also kinda ignoring that I actually found potential scum motivation behind WP's post.

[goodmorning]

Yes, but why would you think that it necessarily would? Especially given that Witness mentioned a game with this exact setup that he was in before?

I must not be explaining very well here. I meta dove every player here that I haven't played with before to get an idea about RVS play from each of them, since D1 looks very important in this setup. Most RVS play is pretty generic, but Perp's stood out from their scum play, thus I mentioned it so that others would follow in my footsteps and check their meta.

And you didn't mention that you meta'd everyone when I asked you "why PN

instead of

someone from your group" because? Wouldn't the obvious answer to that be "I meta'd everyone I haven't played, but only PN's provided meaningful insights"?

I have observed a trend of you ignoring your group, which makes me think you want to fly under their radars.

You're using some pretty strong language for all of three posts. You're also kinda ignoring that I actually found potential scum motivation behind WP's post.

If I watch a door for half an hour, and three people come out - all blonde women - then I would expect the next person out to, similarly, be a blonde woman. People are wired to notice patterns.

As for "potential Scum motivations" - Witness pointed out himself that it has previously come from Town (as would I have had I thought it would be necessary); therefore Town, having said it, must have had a reason to say it and so it follows that it is not, in point of fact, a particularly alignment-indicative thing for Witness to have said.

[Scripten]

And you didn't mention that you meta'd everyone when I asked you "why PN

instead of

someone from your group" because? Wouldn't the obvious answer to that be "I meta'd everyone I haven't played, but only PN's provided meaningful insights"?

I tend to meta dive everyone I haven't played with before so I can get an idea of what their RVS play might mean. Perp stood out because their RVS scumplay looked significantly different from this game.

Almost word-for-word.

If I watch a door for half an hour, and three people come out - all blonde women - then I would expect the next person out to, similarly, be a blonde woman. People are wired to notice patterns.

You're just restating what you said before. It's allegedly a trend for three posts on page 1 (technically, one is on page 2 as well but meh). Okay? The only reason I'm not dropping this for being noise is that you seem to find it important. From as objective a stance as I can muster, you're probably jumping the gun if your sample size for a posting trend is this small.

As for "potential Scum motivations" - Witness pointed out himself that it has previously come from Town (as would I have had I thought it would be necessary); therefore Town, having said it, must have had a reason to say it and so it follows that it is not, in point of fact, a particularly alignment-indicative thing for Witness to have said.

I think I mentioned this before, but it wasn't just that he mentioned the all-town bloc. It was that he put forth that he was in the all-town bloc. I definitely explained how this has potential scum motivation.

[Zebulin]

Trying too hard to be casual.

Isn't that what RVS is supposed to be, though? If scum feel relaxed instead of pressured they are much more likely to say something stupid early game imo. That allows you to scumhunt effectively and make the right call come in-game sundown. I get that appearing town is what scum would want to do, but it's also what town wants to do. I've been mislynched in lylo my last 2 games, and this is basically 3 lylos.

The first three words of my post are the most important ones. Your response doesn't really make sense to me in context.

Um, your signature literally says "EFFORT IS NOT INDICATIVE OF ALIGNMENT".


Apparently BBMolla doesn't post more than 2 lines per post as both town and scum. Ever. Perpetual Nonsense is playing very much like his town meta, though, with all the metaphors. UNVOTE: Perpetual Nonsense

[goodmorning]

That's effort as in posting effort, not acting effort. Interesting interpretation though.

[Witness Protection]

VOTE: Witness Protection

We

might be the Town bloc.

Nice scumclaim.

This is his whole case. He hasn't varied from this theme since he jumped on it. He hasn't even explained why it's scummy. What would scum's plan have been? You tell me since it's your scum read.

Perp feels like Perptown, but I haven't played with them before, so my meta divings are probably not super indicative.

PN seems to be playing according to what I remember of them. So it's pretty much verified that they are actually PN. I don't read them as anything but null ATM. What

exactly

gives you the Town read? Explain what you saw in their "meta".

I tend to meta dive everyone I haven't played with before so I can get an idea of what their RVS play might mean. Perp stood out because their RVS scumplay looked significantly different from this game. I have been commenting on my own group. Haven't you noticed? Doesn't mean I'm not going to see what everyone else posts.

Then you should have this game sown up, if meta is all you need. I'm getting to the point I dismiss most "meta" reads out of hand, because "he's not playing the way he did in such and such a game" is such an easy place for scum to sit and just go "meta".

If you're going to use meta in your case, please do more that just say " he isn't playing the same as he did then." Show what is similar and what's not. Explain how that supports your read. Otherwise it's just an empty read.

1 - I didn't know until after I went meta diving. Their posting was erratic and that can sometimes mean scum. Don't think it does atm.

Can you explain why erratic (their MO), is indicative of anything? What did you conclude from meta diving PN? Do you expect them to play to their meta?

Because Perp's meta actually told me something.

Then why so reluctant to share it? If it would help sort PN faster, shouldn't you share?

Did you miss my 42? There's potential scum motivation for saying what WP did,

though my vote didn't have much behind it because it was on page 1

. The only way I could see your statement working was if you were accusing me of bandwagoning BBmolla because he mentioned WP being scum before I did.

I missed BB calling me scum. What's the scum motivation to mentioning the all Town group? Was I(scum) trying to trick my group somehow? We still have to lynch one of us. That was what Sthar8 & Jingle (I don't remember the name of their hydra ) got accused of in my last Triplicate game. But it doesn't even make sense, pushing mentioning the all Town group as a scum tell. I'm all for tin foil theories, but you just say it's scummy, but never try to explain why you think it's scum.

@ gm

Was that you two pushing it? I don't remember.

I must not be explaining very well here. I meta dove every player here that I haven't played with before to get an idea about RVS play from each of them, since D1 looks very important in this setup. Most RVS play is pretty generic, but Perp's stood out from their scum play, thus I mentioned it so that others would follow in my footsteps and check their meta.

I think I've mentioned I'm becoming more skeptical of "meta" as time goes by. Oh, I still read games to get an idea of someone's play. I just take most unexplained "meta" reads with a grain of salt, even holding it as a strike against a slot at times.

Why meta dive

anyone

to get an idea of their RVS play? I'm starting to believe you. I bet you did meta dive players in this game. For nefarious reasons.

You're using some pretty strong language for all of three posts. You're also kinda ignoring that I actually found potential scum motivation behind WP's post.

No you haven't. All you've done is jump on that one post and say "it's scummy", you haven't exposed any scum motivation. All you did was point out my joke for why I wasn't going to RVS at that time, and my vote won't be RVS when I do vote. Because neither of you had posted a word yet.

I think I mentioned this before, but it wasn't just that he mentioned the all-town bloc. It was that he put forth that he was in the all-town bloc. I definitely explained how this has potential scum motivation.

All our words are here for posterity, prove it, don't just say it. Take my post and show how it means what you're saying it means.

I'm going to laugh my arse off if we do end up the all Town group, but that'll mean only

one

of us will make it through the Night.

VOTE: Scripten

Sticks hard with an unexplained scum read. Town reads PN for "meta". He never explains what he got from the "meta", just says that's why he has reads. He looks like scum that's latched onto something they (scum) see as an easy push. I still need to ISO the other third of Wisdom, but from what I remember, he hasn't said much of anything. He did ask if Scripten was around once, then never followed up when he (Scripten )said he was.

[goodmorning]

What's the scum motivation to mentioning the all Town group? Was I(scum) trying to trick my group somehow? We still have to lynch one of us. That was what Sthar8 & Jingle (I don't remember the name of their hydra ) got accused of in my last Triplicate game. But it doesn't even make sense, pushing mentioning the all Town group as a scum tell. I'm all for tin foil theories, but you just say it's scummy, but never try to explain why you think it's scum.

@ gm

Was that you two pushing it? I don't remember.

Lying Cat (that hydra) was pushing the concept and I was happy to sit back and float by on a wave of towniness.

[Scripten]

Jesus, what fluff. I cut out a few redundant bits just because I can only repeat myself so many times.

This is his whole case. He hasn't varied from this theme since he jumped on it. He hasn't even explained why it's scummy. What would scum's plan have been? You tell me since it's your scum read.

42

He didn't just mention it, he started pushing that he was part of it. It's pretty much a moot point that we have a town bloc, so why is it important to hedge toward being part of it unless serrapaladin or myself got lynched and flipped town?

Reading comprehension. Thanks for cementing my scumread on you, tho.

PN seems to be playing according to what I remember of them. So it's pretty much verified that they are actually PN. I don't read them as anything but null ATM. What

exactly

gives you the Town read? Explain what you saw in their "meta".

PN's scumplay was more conservative and less erratic during RVS.

Then you should have this game sown up, if meta is all you need. I'm getting to the point I dismiss most "meta" reads out of hand, because "he's not playing the way he did in such and such a game" is such an easy place for scum to sit and just go "meta".

Not scumreading you based on meta, or is this you making an associative read between PN and myself before anyone has flipped?

Also never said meta was all that indicative. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

If you're going to use meta in your case, please do more that just say " he isn't playing the same as he did then." Show what is similar and what's not. Explain how that supports your read. Otherwise it's just an empty read.

Not scumreading you based on meta. I already mentioned what looked similar to PN's townplay and in this post I've said what looked different in their scumplay.

Do you expect them to play to their meta?

I haven't seen enough to tell yet. I commented on having looked at their meta and that this game looked like their town game. Nothing more.

I missed BB calling me scum. What's the scum motivation to mentioning the all Town group? Was I(scum) trying to trick my group somehow? We still have to lynch one of us. That was what Sthar8 & Jingle (I don't remember the name of their hydra ) got accused of in my last Triplicate game. But it doesn't even make sense, pushing mentioning the all Town group as a scum tell. I'm all for tin foil theories, but you just say it's scummy, but never try to explain why you think it's scum.

Already explained this. You're just repeating yourself here again.

Why meta dive

anyone

to get an idea of their RVS play? I'm starting to believe you. I bet you did meta dive players in this game. For nefarious reasons.

Yeah, I meta dove people for vague, evil reasons. Confbias harder.

All our words are here for posterity, prove it, don't just say it. Take my post and show how it means what you're saying it means.

I did. This just proves you aren't actually reading.

Sticks hard with an unexplained scum read. Town reads PN for "meta". He never explains what he got from the "meta", just says that's why he has reads. He looks like scum that's latched onto something they (scum) see as an easy push. I still need to ISO the other third of Wisdom, but from what I remember, he hasn't said much of anything. He did ask if Scripten was around once, then never followed up when he (Scripten )said he was.

ARE YOU EVEN READING THE FUCKING GAME?

Like, seriously. This is such bullshit. Are you trying to get me riled up so you can fake a scumread on me for that? Because holy shit this is infuriatingly impotent reading comp.

[Zebulin]

I think that Blue's scum isn't serrapaladin, mainly because there's not a very good chance in my mind of Scripten vs Witness to be TvT. Witness is probably the scum unless he can refute Scripten's points.

Perpetual Nonsense, BBMolla: What's your take on the arguments on this page?

[BBmolla]

You're scum

[Zebulin]

Why do you say that?