Team Mafia 2015 Winners: Young and Beautiful

[Patrick]

just to reiterate: I won't do anything unless I am told by a team member BY PM. It helps when you link me to the thread in question too btw (I see every PT on the site, so sometimes going through it takes me a long time).

Is there a reason not to do it if you've seen it clearly stated in here?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Hey Reckoner: don't worry, I won't ruin the next Team Mafia. Two is enough for me.

That's a shame. I thought you mostly played well, seemed enjoyable to play with and The Captains is a good team.

[SleepyKrew]

PS Trojan I don't hold your hammer against you. I probably would've lynched Egg too.

[Regfan]

More people need to PM Zor and let him know to share their team PTs and scum PTs, really interested in how other teams interacted and discussed reads.

[mastin2]

mad props for not letting the slot get mislynched because i was sure mastin, ffery, and nacho would ramrod that through after i flaked.

Uhh, I was the one who was defending your slot hardest of all? Like, I was a hipster with my read; I had it before it was cool to have a townread.

(Also, I want our topic released. There's some good stuff in there. Lotsa bad, sure, yeah, but good stuff too.)

im not disappointed we didn't win; honestly, our team felt rather weak up until much later in each game

I felt you definitely shoulda been at least second if not first for what it's worth.

I loved being an all town team.

So did I, for what it's worth.

[Psyche]

5. Young and Beautiful were the only team that won all four games. I know it was suggested in the dead thread that something other than wins should determine things, but ultimately any team that is perfect in their games should be eligible for a victory.

As someone who didn't participate (didn't know how cancer treatment would affect my time on site) but followed along, I feel fairly confidently neutral in saying this: This is pretty terrible.

It's been shown long ago that win/loss records don't really correlate in any way to talent/ability or contribution. This is especially true when game imbalance and uneven distribution of factions plays a factor. I never won a paragon based on win/loss record, and though I haven't tallied my raw statistics in years, I know that at least as of like 2011 I had more town losses than wins. There's something fundamentally wrong with the scoring when a team that did relatively little in their victories happened to be the only team that went 4-0, because their non-teammates carried them to victory four times. The idea that overall win/loss record should be a major determining factor in Team Mafia is about as backwards as can be.

I think this is fundamentally elitist. The fact of the matter is that if your suppose amazing skill at mafia doesn't actually translate into a better win rate, then it's not actually amazing skill at mafia. It might be flashy plays, it might be a readiness to take on roles like "town leader" or make successful-looking gambits that are impressive and exciting and energize scummy nominations, but it's not skill in the only sense of the word that makes any sense.

[Psyche]

This actually doesn't make much sense because if you objectively look at the players in this team you'd see that they comparatively did less and were somewhat of a drain on their team in each of their games due to various reasons. Anenenin tried once he replaced in sure, but the rest of the team mates either lurked or were busy and lurked and lucked themselves into a win.

I'm sorry, but this is exactly what I'm talking about. When you see people reliably win in a way that doesn't fit your expectations about how winning play works, your reaction should be to change your expectations about how winning play works. For example, here you are really underestimating the viability of lurking as a scum strategy. My scum win rate across my three main accounts is pretty great; I knew what I was doing and the perception that I was a drain on my team until my replacement was just false, and driven by the same elitist understanding of the game that makes playing with "respected" players so taxing.

If all your "engagement" and "effort" doesn't go anywhere, if it doesn't translate into victory, then it's not skillful play no matter how much others respect you for it. It's wasteful, like doing a cartwheel in the middle of a triathalon.

[Bins]

PS Trojan I don't hold your hammer against you. I probably would've lynched Egg too.

[Psyche]

You guys are assholes to devalue Y&B's achievement like you're doing here. You're like those people who tell black kids who go to Harvard that they only got there by affirmative action. Didn't you know Team Mafia's win condition when you joined all this? Where was all of your crying over the rules then? I guess back

then

you believed that being good at mafia had something to do with winning more games more reliably.

[Nachomamma8]

psyche
people were going to complain regardless of who actually ended up winning

[Metal Sonic]

Psyche probably feels the most pain for not getting the banner because he replaced out like he /should/

That must hurt the most

I feel ya, bro

[Psyche]

I remember thinking when we made our team, "We'd better not let this get too close, because they'd never give it to us in the surveys." It's just so predictable.

[wgeurts]

Except it isn't, because we won.

[wgeurts]

I ow you some thanks psyche for making the team in the first place, it's a shame IRL stuff got in the way.

[Psyche]

andialsoplayed(well)foracoupleofgamedaysinanactualgamebutsure

[wgeurts]

it's a shame IRL stuff got in the way.

I recognised that

[Cheery Dog]

Why haven't more people just gone and clicked the pm button on one of zoraster's posts in their team topics? I can only see 3.

[T S O]

Psyche, if you want to compare black kids going to college to inevitable complaining, there's better places to do it than here.

Just wait a few years and hope your team gets lucky again and wins.

[Psyche]

the things people fixate on

[Untrod Tripod]

You're like those people who tell black kids who go to Harvard that they only got there by affirmative action

yeah okay buddy

[T-Bone]

I mean I realize you can't make everyone happy in these games and the winner isn't going to be completely objective, it just would have been nice to see a team that were working together and putting in effort to their games, even if they were wrong, win.

We were working together but thanks Tammy for continued backhanded insults...

[T-Bone]

I don't mean to pick on you Tammy but it's extremely discouraging to continue to see comments about how my team doesn't deserve the win because we didn't try hard enough or didn't work together as a team enough or aren't good enough players because that's all insulting and not true. I gave it my all for the game I played and I know my teammates did too. And we worked hard on this whether it translated well or not.

[zoraster]

There are teams with longer PTs, but it's not like Young and Beautiful did nothing: they had 30 pages worth of posts, which is 2 fewer than The Cockettes, 2 more than Indecisive (which were the other two teams that had a chance of winning going into MN's lylo).

Blue, Meth, Blade had 50 pages, which is the most.

[Psyche]

You're like those people who tell black kids who go to Harvard that they only got there by affirmative action

yeah okay buddy

i didn't say it was the exact same thing and it's not the exact same thing
but what is the same is the way elitist prejudice is motivating people to shit on the achievements of others

[Untrod Tripod]

POOP