Mini 1726: Netherspite's Semi-Open Role Madness [Game Over]

[ika]

pedit: again what happens if we lynched delann and you and jester killed another scum? does that make jusgde still oped? or not as much

so in order to win this game i had to have dismantled the spiffeh wagon FIRST THING or else i'm fucked.

that's kind of an unreasonable thing to put on town.

not really? you could of let that lynch though, stay off it and be safe form jester.

anti i get your angle and what you are saying but im going to speak form expericne that makng a jusge an indepentent scum is very very impracitacal unless if you plan on bosting its power immensely

[ika]

if a judge can manage to call court and get lynched, he called court at the wrong time

in here maybe, in game of sc2 mafia mod? no

in there its 99% random lynch when it goes to that cus judge will be shouting and scum will be shouting back to it

[Netherspite]

The changes I'll definitely be making to the Judge for the next games:
- reduce its vote power to 2;
- place periodical votecounts during the court;
- place a 24 hour deadline when court activates.

[ika]

like here in a long timeframe jusgde can full on cordinate.

in the short timeframe of sc2 mafia mod jusge had very little time to cordinate

pedit: i like, i would do same for mashall too jsut so it works same way

[Antihero]

you don't make your roles op'd with the assumption that your players are incompetent...

/sigh

[Netherspite]

you don't make your roles op'd with the assumption that your players are incompetent...

/sigh

The point is not that Judge is balanced only when he's not smart.
The point is it depends on skill of every player rather than on 'if scum has a judge, it autowins'.

[Antihero]

not really? you could of let that lynch though, stay off it and be safe form jester.

uh... yeah really

that first lynch had to be good or else what happened in this game was going to happen

[ika]

you don't make your roles op'd with the assumption that your players are incompetent...

/sigh

you cant cover every base anti and you should knwo that.

the game is made ofr a 30 mins of entertainment. old times the game was very very imba cus nearly every role could be confirmed by an action

pedit: if you says o anti im not goign to argue smatic

what netter said also judge and neutral tend to die n1s most times

[Netherspite]

In sc2mafia there is also another mechanic:
first day is lynchless and has significantly reduced length.
This may as well be improving balance for Judge and other neutral roles.

[Antihero]

you cant cover every base anti and you should knwo that.

EXACTLY.

ESPECIALLY AS TOWN BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT.

[Netherspite]

@Antihero

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'll keep thinking about this role and the balance.
My goal is to get something balanced without having to exclude the role completely because in that case Marshall & Crier will have to be excluded as well.

[ika]

In sc2mafia there is also another mechanic:
first day is lynchless and has significantly reduced length.
This may as well be improving balance for Judge and other neutral roles.

actualy most time there was a no lynch day 1 with a very short time

you cant cover every base anti and you should knwo that.

EXACTLY.

ESPECIALLY AS TOWN BECAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW SHIT.

but you had enough to go on to solve it. it jsut didnt work out

anti you guys had a reace against the clock to lynch me or a scum. that was something thats 100% player dependednt

[Antihero]

the game is made ofr a 30 mins of entertainment.

...and, with this, i think we come to the root of the issue.

if you're doing this over the span of a marathon game, everyone's on anyway so that really nerfs the court because it puts town on even ground in terms of the "who's on" game.

the court, on a fundamental level, really fucks with the "low and slow" game style on MS that emphasizes day play.

[Netherspite]

the game is made ofr a 30 mins of entertainment.

...and, with this, i think we come to the root of the issue.

if you're doing this over the span of a marathon game, everyone's on anyway so that really nerfs the court because it puts town on even ground in terms of the "who's on" game.

the court, on a fundamental level, really fucks with the "low and slow" game style on MS that emphasizes day play.

Correct.
Still, I like the fusion between the fast-paced sc2mafia and slow-paced forum games.
I'd like to play it myself but no1 will mod it.
So at least I want to mod it and watch the game.
It'll take several iterations to get it really balanced but it's still certainly fun for many players like me.
Some may dislike it though.

[Antihero]

@Antihero

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'll keep thinking about this role and the balance.
My goal is to get something balanced without having to exclude the role completely because in that case Marshall & Crier will have to be excluded as well.

again, i don't think the marshall role is something that needs a counter. it's not a broken role. even when there's a triple lynch, there's no guarantee any of those lynches will be any good. scum can simply counter it with solid day play.

[ika]

the game is made ofr a 30 mins of entertainment.

...and, with this, i think we come to the root of the issue.

if you're doing this over the span of a marathon game, everyone's on anyway so that really nerfs the court because it puts town on even ground in terms of the "who's on" game.

the court, on a fundamental level, really fucks with the "low and slow" game style on MS that emphasizes day play.

That i will not disagree with personally.

I think the nerf that netter will make to the judge will fix it but i still think judge is fine on the level that it is a neutral evil and not a true evil. its not that powerful to take on that expectations

pedit ill mod a large of this one day jsut so it can be hilariosu fun

[Antihero]

maybe turn it down to a double lynch.

i actually really like that role. it lets town get an advantage, but if they want the advantage THEY HAVE TO EARN IT.

[Netherspite]

@Antihero

Anyway, thanks for the feedback, I'll keep thinking about this role and the balance.
My goal is to get something balanced without having to exclude the role completely because in that case Marshall & Crier will have to be excluded as well.

again, i don't think the marshall role is something that needs a counter. it's not a broken role. even when there's a triple lynch, there's no guarantee any of those lynches will be any good. scum can simply counter it with solid day play.

As can any day lynch be countered but it not always is.
That's why on MS people never skip the lynches. Because it's the main way of getting rid of the scum.
One more lynch is one more chance to hit the scum. Terrible town will still lose but good town will clearly have an advantage of it.

[Netherspite]

pedit ill mod a large of this one day jsut so it can be hilariosu fun

I'll apply for modding a large game of this setup after participating in your large theme to fulfill the requirements.
Will be happy to have you as back up or co-op mod

[ika]

pedit ill mod a large of this one day jsut so it can be hilariosu fun

I'll apply for modding a large game of this setup after participating in your large theme to fulfill the requirements.
Will be happy to have you as back up or co-op mod

find ppl for me then as well!

[Netherspite]

maybe turn it down to a double lynch.

That makes me thinking of another variant:

1. Nerf Marshall to 2 lynches.
2. Nerf Judge to be limited to 1 lynch regardless of the active Marshall.
3. Other nerfs to Judge mentioned above.

[Netherspite]

pedit ill mod a large of this one day jsut so it can be hilariosu fun

I'll apply for modding a large game of this setup after participating in your large theme to fulfill the requirements.
Will be happy to have you as back up or co-op mod

find ppl for me then as well!

I was never good at it
I'm filling a spot myself.

[Antihero]

ok... last post i'll make

contrary to what everyone probably thinks now, i'm not fussing here just to be sore loser pissy pants. as big of a bitch-and-moaner as i am, i can deal with losing to other players. here, i felt like i was beaten by the setup and there's nothing i hate more than feeling like i was beaten by the setup. fortunately it happens extremely rarely, but when it does i ... just feel like i wasted my time with a game that i realistically was never going to win anyway and i just feel awful b/c i feel like i turn into this terrible person that's bitter and frustrated.

alright... well

well well

have a good night

[TellTaleHeart]

Anti, I'm right there with you in that I think the way scum were able to turn the mechanics against us was a little cheap. But I also think it's important to keep in mind that, due to the random nature of setup generation, it's unreasonable to expect an immaculate, perfectly balanced setup (which is what I think you expect of every setup).

With the tweaks that are being suggested to the judge, mayor, and marshall roles, I think this setup scheme could become a classic like C9++.
Personally, I'd really like to play as that Witch Doctor role. That looks like a lot of fun. ^_^

[Klingoncelt]

Hi guys, I enjoyed this even though I didn't get much playing in. Dang you day people...

Great job, Titus!

You guys complaining about the setup - humbug. Once you become familiar with the setup correct play becomes second nature. I like to try unusual/non-normal setups for the experience. I regret it as soon as the game starts, I cry and suffer migraines the whole way through until I get lynched (usually within minutes of gamestart ), but once the game's over I have a sense of accomplishment for having tried something new.

I'm signed up for Ika's game at SC2.

Try something new, people.