Blitz 1: C9++ (GAME OVER!)

[Ythan]

This is getting silly. The game's over. Scum no longer have reason to lie. If coaching wasn't his intent, then it wasn't and it was a co-incidence he asked Ranger to switch.

You guys should lay off of Persivul.

This is getting silly. The game's over. Scum have no reason to defend their buddies.

[Antihero]

i have to interject myself on this because i feel like it...

2. In this game, ETL was excellent at identifying scum. She was horrible at getting them lynched. Scumhunting requires both. When someone spots a 10-point buck but misses the shot...that's not good hunting. When the deer turns on him and kills him, that's even worse.

no, not really

yeah, i know it's a curt, snooty thing to say. i also used to think like this. but... no. sadly, this is not true and you're giving the individual WAY too much power with this attitude.

see... when it comes to things like "persuasion", there's a little bit of luck involved because "persuasiveness" comes down to how much you click with who you're trying to persuade. the audience has to be RECEPTIVE to the arguments if you're going to make any progress. if we're being brutally honest, it all comes down to image and how much people like you. unless you're intimately familiar with most of the playerlist, this is a hit-or-miss kind of thing. i can play the exact same way in two different games: in one game everyone will call me confident and assertive and sheep my reads and in another everyone will think i'm an arrogant, egomaniacal jackass and call me scummy for it.

i will concede that there's a bit of an element of how politically savvy and adaptable someone is in trying to lead. and some people are better at it than others. but mostly, you're really at the mercy of the masses. you ever heard anybody call mafia a "social game"? that's what they mean. etl could've done her best mary poppins impression and been 100% dead-on accurate about everything. the wisdom of the crowd still would've fallen hilariously short on this one.

1. It's...just...a...game. Relax and have some fun. I let it get to me and took a few months off, and I've learned my lesson. You apparently haven't.

"it's just a game" is a really crappy thing to say. it's similar to glibly saying "calm down" to someone who's mad in that it often produces the opposite effect of what you want and it makes the other person hate you that much more.

yes, it is true. it is a game and it doesn't have any serious consequences for those who lose. rationally, etl and everyone else already knows that. losing still stings because people get invested in games here. it's the downside of actually caring about winning and losing. if you get that high from winning then, conversely, you feel crappy about losing.

tl:dr, we're junkies here. don't kill our buzz.

[/meddling in other people's business sequence ended]

[Flubbernugget]

Twelve hours to go. Ranger, your lone vote on ETL isn't doing any good. Can you move it to another wagon?

This is 100% coaching. Town doesn't talk this way to someone they don't think is playing like town. You're telling him to move his vote onto the wagon here.

I'm not pulling the post number but persuival had reached out to me in a similar way this game

[Flubbernugget]

Although I think actually getting mad over a loss is bad getting mad because of shit play makes sense

Sometimes you have to tell someone to go fuck themselves before they get it

[OceanWind]

@Antihero, I absolutely agree that persuasion is largely a matter of playerlist and sometimes the other town just won't listen no matter how accurate you are. Persivul may disagree but I think spotting scum is a skill in itself. Where I think EspeciallyTheLies is going wrong is that she can't on one hand blame Titus for BEING mislynched by her and then on the other hand blame Marge FOR mislynching her.

Either she accepts that she made a mistake with Titus in just the way Marge made a mistake or she accepts that mislynches just happen and Marge wasn't to blame just like she assumes she wasn't to blame for mislynching Titus. She's trying to have it both ways and that's something I disagree with the mod on because Rob was seeing the game through ETL's eyes, not through an unbiased pair of "mod's" eyes. No matter how many justifications Rob wants to give for saying Titus's mislynch was justified, the fact remains that she was town just as ETL was.

The other thing of course is calling the scumteam terrible when it was unwarranted and unprovoked. Persivul only started defending himself after the mod and ETL both took it upon themselves to put down scumplay in this game.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Ocean, there's a very big piece of understanding you seem to be missing, which is the fact that I removed Titus specifically to get her voice out of the thread because I have a lot of experience playing with her and I know it doesn't work. I do not regret that decision in any way whatsoever, and I have good reasons for what I did. If you're really interested in the logic, I'll explain but honestly I don't think you'd get it and your mind is already made up that "shit on ETL" is the popular and cool thing to do, so whatever.

Second, I'm not mad at Marge for my lynch. I'm disappointed in her because the correct way to play a pressure vote that late in the game is to unvote once you get the response you're looking for, especially when 2 more votes suddenly materialize. It's a huge signal that the person they are voting is town. She didn't do that, despite being around and responding in-thread.

[OceanWind]

I haven't tried to "shit on" anyone. I'm telling you like I see it. You're saying you policy-lynched Titus?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Also, I think it's really something else to try to blame me for the rest of the town refusing to even look at the evidence I presented. It is seriously not my fault the town was too fucking high to bother. It's one thing to be bad at convincing people, but it's another when the people you are talking to don't want to even look in the first place. Half the town was asleep and the other half had their heads up their asses.

To try to put the entire blame on me - someone who tried my best to get the information into the thread, to the point that the only way to validate what I was saying without the cloud of a scumread was to flip myself - is a fucking cop out.

No the scum team did NOT play well. Each of you were incredibly obvious. I don't care what any of you think was valid play or "what town would do" You're straight up wrong. End of story.

Lastly, Persivul - don't play with me again.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I haven't tried to "shit on" anyone. I'm telling you like I see it. You're saying you policy-lynched Titus?

Abso-fucking-lutely. And furthermore, I wasn't even pushing it. The Titus lynch was a second option. My preferred lynch was Persivul, as I'd mentioned several times, and you fucking know that. Don't even try to say I was the strongest voice for it, because I wasn't. You were.

[Ythan]

It's on you to avoid him if you have a problem.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's on you to avoid him if you have a problem.

I made a request. If he's already signed up, I won't sign up. I'm asking him to give me the same respect.

[OceanWind]

I don't think it was solely your fault. Town lost due to a combination of personality clashes, short deadlines that needed lynches before they could get their bearings, and overall there just not being enough time to come together and agree and coordinate, and scum actions that perpetuated this. If I have any suggestions for the town as a whole, I'd say spamming so much content in the way that many players did made it harder to find the important posts amidst the fluff. You are entitled to your opinion of scumplay. I'm not here to prove myself in endgame.

[SilverWolf]

"it's just a game" is a really crappy thing to say. it's similar to glibly saying "calm down" to someone who's mad in that it often produces the opposite effect of what you want and it makes the other person hate you that much more.

yes, it is true. it is a game and it doesn't have any serious consequences for those who lose. rationally, etl and everyone else already knows that. losing still stings because people get invested in games here. it's the downside of actually caring about winning and losing. if you get that high from winning then, conversely, you feel crappy about losing.

tl:dr, we're junkies here. don't kill our buzz.

I was reading through this game to get some meta for ~reasons~ and I saw this and wanted to quote it and say I agree except for the hate you that much more part. It is very frustrating when people say this because a lot of us here are very competitive mafia players and get invested in these games. It feels good to win and sucks to lose. About the only time I feel good about losing is when the other side really, really worked hard for it, played well, did something super clever, and I feel like they deserve the win. Then I can take it better. But it still always feels much better to win than to lose even if it is just an internet game.

[farside22]

Ocean, there's a very big piece of understanding you seem to be missing, which is the fact that I removed Titus specifically to get her voice out of the thread because I have a lot of experience playing with her and I know it doesn't work. I do not regret that decision in any way whatsoever, and I have good reasons for what I did. If you're really interested in the logic, I'll explain but honestly I don't think you'd get it and your mind is already made up that "shit on ETL" is the popular and cool thing to do, so whatever.

Second, I'm not mad at Marge for my lynch. I'm disappointed in her because the correct way to play a pressure vote that late in the game is to unvote once you get the response you're looking for, especially when 2 more votes suddenly materialize. It's a huge signal that the person they are voting is town. She didn't do that, despite being around and responding in-thread.

I was at work when players voted for you.

I can't help having RL going on when's game is going on and someone has a breakdown.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No. You were around. You saw the votes happen.

EspeciallyTheLies was one of the biggest proponents of the Titus lynch. You can flip that around for any townie and go "why would anyone townread Titus."

If EspeciallyTheLies and Firebringer are town, they are biasing all of my reads and it is impossible to see this game in a way that'll get me good reads so I don't know. I need to think about this more.

I didn't "silent hammer." I posted an explanation.

Titus claimed vig. That could have been proven.
What bothered me is the majority of her push was based on a theory more then anything else.

And D2 with that silent hammer. Don't forget that opportunistic piece of shit move.

Why is Kop a town read?

Vote: etl

Jesus fucking christ marge... read my goddamn ISO.

I've played with him before. He felt and looked town. There's really nothing more to it than that. I said that on D2.

Everything he's posted has come across incredibly straight-forward, off the cuff, and honest.

All she's done is lurk and hop onto wagons.

I don't want to lynch Ocean. Kop still needs to go. I wish I had the time to be a leader, but alas....

I like my vote. Pushing a vote on a claimed Mason.
Not waiting for it to be verified.
You want to call that town I'll look at you like:

[farside22]

30 min's later you have a break down.
Yes at the time your comment and push was crazy.
Just like pushing Titus.
You think I should look at that town?
I wasn't the only player wondering about the claim from ocean.
So if it helps you to blame everyone else for there faults and not your own so be it.
Don't expect me to tell you, that you played a good game by self hammering.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of my play. Your reads were fucking terrible. If it takes someone 4 game days to get their shit together, something is wrong.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

And what's funny is you're literally the only person I respect for wising up. Everyone else had their head in the clouds. I just wish it had happened sooner.

[Ythan]

I expected less post game rage with shorter games.

[farside22]

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks of my play. Your reads were fucking terrible. If it takes someone 4 game days to get their shit together, something is wrong.

[Persivul]

no, not really

yeah, i know it's a curt, snooty thing to say. i also used to think like this. but... no. sadly, this is not true and you're giving the individual WAY too much power with this attitude.

Bullshit. It's not just the luck of the draw that I could get my pushes lynched and she couldn't. It's ridiculous to put so little weight on that aspect of the game.

If you disagree, do an experiment. Read ETL's ISO and see her berating town's incompetence on multiple occasions. Now do that yourself in your next ten games and see how it goes.

"it's just a game" is a really crappy thing to say. it's similar to glibly saying "calm down" to someone who's mad in that it often produces the opposite effect of what you want and it makes the other person hate you that much more.

Wow, hate? Really? If you think in those terms, you shouldn't be playing the game at all.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

lol.... he says to someone who's being nominated for most enjoyable player...

[Ythan]

Not that he isn't great but that'll be relevant when he wins.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

the point is that he wouldn't have even been nominated or received so many nths if he wasn't actually enjoyable to play with.

[Ythan]

Eh welcome to mafiascum.