Open 628: Masons and Mafia | Endgame

[kirroha]

tl;dr

* VTs softing VT don't make sense.
* She had no need to soft because she was not under any kind of pressure.
* WIFOM only benefits scum, especially in the middle of the game.
* Her predecessor replaced out (which is always a mild scum tell).
* Some nonsense about a 'plan' which clearly wasn't a real thing.

Jeanne is scum. acryon please vote.

[acryon]

* Her predecessor replaced out (which is always a mild scum tell).

This is absurd.

[kirroha]

You don't think she's scum? I think her softclaim (and that 'plan') was scummier than anything else I've seen this game.

The "plan" sucked but I don't know that it's scummy. I also don't really think she was softclaiming. I think she's just misunderstanding the situation. Hanlon's razor and all.

It's scummy

because

the plan sucked. I find it so much more likely that scum would do that just for the WIFOM (Remember what beeboy did Page 1?) than town would engineer such a bizarre and obviously useless plan that is actively damaging to the town wincon. Besides, it was a softclaim, technically. "I want to be shot" is a VT claim because VTs don't die when shot.

PEdit: Ignore the predecessor point. I realised that shouldn't be a tell at all. But everything else is still scummy.

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count

kirroha

(2): Jeanne11, lane0168

Jeanne11

(1): kirroha

Not Voting

(6): InsidiousLemons, Cobalting, Hershey Kiss, D3f3nd3r, Lowell, acryon

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2016-03-07 11:52:46)

[acryon]

You don't think she's scum? I think her softclaim (and that 'plan') was scummier than anything else I've seen this game.

The "plan" sucked but I don't know that it's scummy. I also don't really think she was softclaiming. I think she's just misunderstanding the situation. Hanlon's razor and all.

It's scummy

because

the plan sucked. I find it so much more likely that scum would do that just for the WIFOM (Remember what beeboy did Page 1?) than town would engineer such a bizarre and obviously useless plan that is actively damaging to the town wincon. Besides, it was a softclaim, technically. "I want to be shot" is a VT claim because VTs don't die when shot.

PEdit: Ignore the predecessor point. I realised that shouldn't be a tell at all. But everything else is still scummy.

Yeah I mean I don't disagree with most of that actually. Part of me wants to believe that scum wouldn't "softclaim" in such a hamfisted way, but that's not enough reason to push me away.

VOTE: Jeanne11

[Jeanne11]

Maybe she is just withholding shooting me because she wants to mislynch me and sees grounds for that?

[acryon]

Maybe she is just withholding shooting me because she wants to mislynch me and sees grounds for that?

If that was in your mind, then why would you do what you did anyway?

[Jeanne11]

Because I wanted to kill her before something like this happens.

[kirroha]

Wow just look at that scum. She didn't even have a reason at all for voting me and now she's so 'confident' about me being scum who is just "withholding my shot". Seriously?

[acryon]

Because I wanted to kill her before something like this happens.

You expected scum-her to shoot town-you or you expected to get her lynched?

[Jeanne11]

The first.

[Jeanne11]

Oh, and sure, scum-me would definitely bring myself out in the open, knowing I will get lynched for it. Sure.

[acryon]

The first.

The game is a 2 v. 7 for scum and you expected them to risk a shot on someone awkwardly softing mason?

[Jeanne11]

Oh, how cheeky. You skipped my last post.

[acryon]

Oh, how cheeky. You skipped my last post.

You mean the one you did a second before I posted mine?

Also it's WIFOM so why would I acknowledge it?

[kirroha]

Oh, and sure, scum-me would definitely bring myself out in the open, knowing I will get lynched for it. Sure.

beeboy did the same thing and he was scum. So I'm not buying that.

Not to mention you voted me allegedly with the reason that it was a 'plan', but now that I'm attacking you you suddenly think I'm scum just withholding their shot. Sounds like flailing scum to me.

The first.

The game is a 2 v. 7 for scum and you expected them to risk a shot on someone awkwardly softing mason?

She didn't even soft mason. She said she softed VT, which doesn't make sense. How would a VT expect to be shot by essentially just saying "I want to be shot"?

[Jeanne11]

You forget that you two forced me to say that I want to be shot. Nice try to frame me. Cause and effect.

[Jeanne11]

Also, didn't you complain that you always get lynched because you suck? Yet here you are ready to do the same thing to me. Even God says 'do not do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you'.

[kirroha]

Oh, and sure, scum-me would definitely bring myself out in the open, knowing I will get lynched for it. Sure.

Also, didn't you complain that you always get lynched because you suck? Yet here you are ready to do the same thing to me. Even God says 'do not do unto others what you don't want others to do unto you'.

I don't even know what to say about this post.

[acryon]

You forget that you two forced me to say that I want to be shot. Nice try to frame me. Cause and effect.

How did you expect people to respond to your naked vote?

[Jeanne11]

By ignoring me.

[Lowell]

Eh, I don't know about the Jeannie wagon. Leaning town on her.

We're down to two scum and this is nightless, so we get to three town players and we're home free.

I'm town, and Lane (I now believe) doesn't have a clue how the mechanics of this game work, so he's town, too. Find us one more.

fos acryon

. This is a pet theory of mine, still working out the details. His behavior before Kop's death troubles me. First, he made a show about being with me, which looks like buddying. Second, the way he "confirmed" me as town after Kop's ridiculous death makes me think he's signalling a teammate (lest THREE different scum are suicidally trigger-happy). I'll be honest, the only thing keeping me from a vote here is that I enjoy positive feedback, and he's good to have around for that.

[acryon]

By ignoring me.

And why would we do that?

fos acryon

. This is a pet theory of mine, still working out the details. His behavior before Kop's death troubles me. First, he made a show about being with me, which looks like buddying. Second, the way he "confirmed" me as town after Kop's ridiculous death makes me think he's signalling a teammate (lest THREE different scum are suicidally trigger-happy). I'll be honest, the only thing keeping me from a vote here is that I enjoy positive feedback, and he's good to have around for that.

Let go of this one buddy. All I did before Kop's death was agree with you about his ISO. It reeked of trying to defend beeboy without making too big of waves, and added nothing otherwise. After you mentioned it, it seemed almost elementary that they were scum together.

And I honestly don't think any scum would need signalling that you are obviously town.

[kirroha]

If Jeanne was really town thinking her 'plan' would work she wouldn't reveal it so quickly just because acryon asked a simple "Why?". It sounds more like she is scum just throwing in a silly reason to justify her vote.

She's flailing so hard she decided to drag in something I posted on the General Discussions forum. I don't think her slot is looking too good at this point.

[Lowell]

The first post of the two that D3f3nd3r mentioned doesn't really strike me as a scumtell, just somewhat awkward phrasing. Beeboy's mason claim was an... odd move, to say the least, but I can see how it could have just been an ill-thought-out gambit or just a joke. Either way it is somewhat suspicious, but doesn't really stand out to me as an especially great reason to vote him. 105, though, I don't like at all. I hadn't looked into it much as I just sort of assumed it was true. I don't really know why, as taking people's word for things and ignoring meta altogether is a terrible idea in Mafia, but nonetheless I mostly disregarded it. The revelation, though, that he does have recent scum meta, makes me feel very good about pushing for his lynch.
VOTE: Beeboy
That's L-2, if I'm correct, and I don't know enough about the other players in the game to say whether or not they're trigger happy. I'll look into it, but in the meantime I'd like to suggest that we keep him where he is until we hear from him.

Let's consider the possibilities.
1. Beeboy, seeing that he was being pushed closer to a lynch, shot out of desperation to try and kill a mason before he died.
2. Some unknown scum player shot on a hunch to try and frame Beeboy and make his lynch even more likely.
3. Beeboy's near-lynch and Kernel's death occurring at the same time was a coincidence.

Personally, I see possibility number 1 as the most likely. Trying to frame Beeboy would be extremely risky, as if the scum player died it'd likely take a lot of the pressure off of Beeboy as people realized that he'd probably been framed. I also don't really see how this could've been a coincidence, as any scum attempt to try and kill a mason while someone else was near to being lynched anyway only really makes sense if Beeboy is scum. Think about it - if another scum was the shooter, the only motivation they'd really have to not just wait for Beeboy's lynch is if Beeboy is not town-aligned.
VOTE: Beeboy

Nevermind about acroyn. Turns out I've found another scum for us while you guys bicker pointlessly (a town v town argument here, I now believe).

VOTE: insidious

Insidious has done nothing but post meta-comments. These two, in particular, are bad. In the first he's all but saying "hey wait up guys while my teammate can log on and kill someone," while trying to pretend he supports the wagon.

Then he comes back with this second quote, which reads overwrought on its own, but looks much worse in context. Everyone already was going to vote beeboy at that point--the timing of the mason kill was all but a confession. So this again looks like overcompensation.