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i think he’ll get nerfs within the next few patches
he’s doing too well for a champ no one knows how to play yet

It's also worth noting that, while very rare, it's not impossible that Nunu's kit is inherently very simple and easy to learn as well as straightforward. The last champ that this happened to was... vel'koz? I think?

EDIT: Perhaps wrong word choice... but nunu could just be an easy pickup.

In post 3917, dramonic wrote:What does jungle xayah even accomplish?

Theory was that it should be safer than jungle kalista (clear is way healthier) while keeping some of the objective secure (although 9 feathers+smite is of course less than spears+smite).
But yea, clear is decent, ganks are meh.
skirmishing is quite nice.

disclaimer: the "clear is way healthier" is likely partly due to me being shit at kalista, but oh well.

just play chogath or nunu if you want extra secure

can confirm, ap nunu is garbage in the jungle and the scaling on his e is bad too

The question I have is whether he should be built as like a classic tank or as a support. I suppose in general it depends on how balanced the involved items are...
also why are all the builds that register on op.gg ap builds?? seems the page hasn't updated for 8.17 yet. but old nunu didn't only build AP either, right?

most recently it kind of did mostly build ap afaik.

Old tank nunu just hopes everyone else is as useless as he is. AP nunu kills people.

re: heimerdinger bot
had a matchup recently against a sivir/sion which i thought would go terribly because of her spell shield (heim's E is very slow) and easy turret clear and his ability to displace turrets, but lane was mostly fine since I tend to max W anyway and they seem to have overcommitted a bunch
we ended up losing around midgame, but i feel like that was a result of issues around the rest of the map and maybe my own failure to secure vision control around drag (i was surprised to learn that diana jg can solo drag at very low levels)
then again, maybe it was sivir's ability to consistently pressure my lane that prevented me from getting vision over the drag pit or attempting to take it before diana could

statistically, vayne is supposed to be heim bot's worst matchup (sivir and mf tie for second place), though i'm not very sure why. Like sivir, I suppose, vayne can pretty reliably play around my E (which since heim's rework is very important to land if he's to do a lot of damage), and maybe the invisibility of her ult interacts in weird ways with turret aggro. Still, I don't remember having especial difficulty against her...Guess I need more games.

this newest patch seems kind to heimerdinger overall, so i don't see any reason to drop him besides the fact that i'm maybe a bit bored of the playstyle now

In post 3933, Psyche wrote:diana jg can solo drag at very low levels

"I AM CONFUSION"

im gonna have to check the replay to see how/when she pulled it off, but it was pretty impressive and surprising in the moment

Does anyone know when the season ends?

I was d5 in like.. April? But I haven't played at all so have probably decayed to about plat 5 again. I did the exact same thing last year and it was pretty fine to climb back up again, albeit a bit close given I got it the day before the season ended.

probably november 10

im honestly warming up to an at least initially AP nunu quite a bit. Runic echoes at least feels a lot better than Cinderhulk as a first item. It gives him a much faster clear (his W will almost one-shot camps), gives him a much bigger self-heal, and feels more impactful/harder to ignore in fights. Nunu's clear is terrible without some AP, I think. I still don't have a very good idea of what he should build next if he goes the runic echoes path - a bulky AP build or a full tank build or a support tank build, but I feel like Runic Echoes is a good core item that ensures on his own that he has enough AP for his skills to be impactful. Also, CDR is quite nice on Nunu! His Q is definitely not an "always up" sort of skill and being able to make more than one snowball per fight helps a lot for peeling for teammates or chasing down straggling enemies and whatnot.

Contrary to my first impression, Nunu's W seems not very good as an engage tool imo because of how slow and telegraphed it is. Instead, much like Galio's highly telegraphed but massive CC, it's best as a follow-up to some engage or as a way to greatly disrupt fights by forcing enemies to choose between continuing their current pathing and getting blasted or moving out of your snowball's way.

Overall in general, I feel like Nunu may be very similar to Galio in some really key ways. He might be best with a bulky AP build an a playstyle that carefully manages how hard he commits to teamfights based on his cooldowns and the enemy's current ability to deal damage/CC. I'm thinking his natural rotation involves something like following up on an engage with his W and then proceeding to spread slows and potentially roots with his E (also stacking his passive to ensure his ADC has the AD and MS buff for the whole fight), relying on his Q to variously survive this situation or finish off an enemy, and using his ult opportunistically (ie when enemy has blown key cooldowns that would disrupt it or when the slow or baiting the disruptive skill is necessary). Galio has a similar preference to get in after an engage, deal a mix of CC and damage, and then either have won by then or gotten out until he has room for another rotation of skills, and both depend on their tank stats and an AP scaling defensive skill to survive all that. The exact mix of AP and tankiness that's most desirable...it seems like something that varies from match to match and is hard to suss out. Atm I prefer Runic Echoes and then a straightforward tank build.

Nunu has pretty long cooldowns! His W and E both have a cooldown of 14 seconds at all levels, and his Q's lowest CD is 8 seconds. And without these abilities, he's sort of useless. His passive grants small amounts of AD, AS, movement speed, and a AOE-autoattack effect - stats that Nunu can't do much with. It's really important that he nail all parts of his kit on first use or his impact on fights will be limited.

i take it back dear god i take it all back what was i thinking

In post 3938, Psyche wrote:i take it back dear god i take it all back what was i thinking

Yeah, I was curious how long your opinion from the previous post would last. I've seen exactly 1 Newnu do well in-game, and when I looked at his build I remember seeing Cinderhulk, Dead Man's Plate, Spirit Visage, Tabi, etc... every single Newnu I've ever seen go Runic Echoes has failed spectacularly - usually by over-committing or not having a good gauge of the damage they can do vs. how ham they should go. That might be solved eventually by people who learn the champion really well (it's kindof FOTM right now) but I really think people are better off if they play a disruptor rather than make an attempt to be a play-maker/second AP.

i just got crushed by a mobi's, ap, superspeed nunu

Build? that sounds hilarious

it was not hilarious.

he seems to be Purple/Red (Comet/Nullyfying Orb/celerity/waterwalking with Cheap Shots/Relentless Hunter). Also it just seems to be the normal AP build with Mobis instead of tank shoes. Ap jungle item, Morello, Zhonya. 4th item has seems to have a catalyst in it, not sure what he's going for. Probably abyssal. But yeah, seems to be normal build path with the movement speed hunter/celerity/waterwalking and mobis.

I don't think it's a particularly great build, I just think we had a bad team. Bad support, bad mid laner, bad jungler. Fed nunu and the assassin. They had a cheese support, so that helped.

But the snowball was fast and did many damage.

Yeah, AP Nunu can snowball if conditions are just right, for sure, and that's where I got my impression that he might be good. But things aren't going amazingly, I don't think the build has much justification.

Atm I favor a tank build w/ predator keystone and the MS sorcery runes. But really, a lot of my thoughts about his playstyle has changed beyond just the build. I feel like Predator greatly improves the reliability of his engage and his gank (though it does make steering harder) and puts him more decidedly in a condition where he can start fights rather than just follow up on initiation. Another common tactic I use is taking scuttle and using its MS boost to make his W engage really quick. Nunu's W "floors" his MS at the moment of usage, even to the point of making him resistant to slows, so if you can create moments where he's really fast (like by buying mobility boots, using scuttler, or predator or some item/rune), then you'll be fast for the whole charge time.

I haven’t quite decided which tank items I favor, but atm I go Warmog’s/Visage most of the time. I got my first S with him yesterday, so I feel like I really am gradually edging toward the right way to play him. I still kind of feel like fitting a little AP into his build, perhaps a dark seal, but simply not going Resolve and taking the extra 10AP that comes w/ that decision might be enough.

I feel like his strengths are his ganks/towerdiving plus his objective pressure from his Q, and that his kit is a little less good in teamfight contexts where his W and R are more easily disrupted (it's actually amazing to think of the cheap skills that can disrupt nunu's w atm, including soraka's silence and heimerdinger's Q) and his peel sort of pales in comparison to other options for the role. That doesn't mean his terrible late, but there are many jungler's one would prefer over him at that point - like Amumu or Jax. He has access to a pretty strong early gank and can (but usually shouldn't) solo drag after his first back, and *needs* to use it. And of course he has room for lots of invade shenanigans and with good macro can make the enemy jungler's life a living hell. Still, without his old E and a harder-to-proc MS boost, he just doesn't get around the enemy jungle like he used to. I feel like his W gives him the ability to speed through enemy camps though (and to have something to help him back out if trouble comes).

also hexflash is a really sexy, underrated rune for ganking
not for nunu, but yknow

I think if you want some damage on tanky nunu you want liandry's or abyssal mask
dunno if I'd delay spirit visage for abyssal mask, since the heal is massive

tank junglers feel weak in general atm, w/ a few key exceptions

I found out that Kindred absolutely dumpsters Nunu, so Kindred is good again because Nunu is everywhere and that makes me happy.

nunu's w explodes on contact with *any* pet
that makes playing heimerdinger a lot easier than it already has been lately
i honestly hope they change that mechanic soon bc that plus silences, obstacles and so many other things stopping his W makes Nunu feel so situational overall