Wow that was worse than I thought it would be. Just wanted to get my train of thought out while I had it.
Spoiler: Translated
In post 49, Clumsy wrote:I will be home a little bit later so I might write more then, but for the moment I'm going to be using voice to text on my way home. Please forgive any typos or weird sentence structures, this isn't going to be perfect. I was in the DC dual Universe game, and I was scum on one earth and town in the other. I won as scum on Earth one, and lost as town on Earth two, making the game a double scum victory. I think what the key thing to winning as town in that game was comparing how people acted in Earth one and how they acted in earth two and how they were different and how they were the same. Instead of having to look at people's other games that they played in the past for how they usually act, you had it right there in the same game with potentially two different roles. At the same time, when you lynch somebody, you could still talk to them on the other Earth and get their reads from there. I think that was something that was vastly underused in the other game. I feel like things were a bit rushed, and people didn't follow up on confirmed towns' reads when we crossed earths. I do not think that no lynching is a viable option here, because it doesn't actually move the game forward for town. Yes, we would stay on the same Earth, but if we don't actively Lynch and try to get things done, we're just going to lose anyway. So the issue is that giving up a lynch for the day does not mean that we will have an upper hand.
I think the best way to treat this game from a strategic perspective is to treat it as the same game just rewrolled on Earth two and played at the same time as Earth one. The dual earth mechanic is a way around the normal site and game rules of once a person is dead, they can no longer communicate with us. In this game they can. The fact that the people who are dead can talk to a still talk is a major boon for town, so mislynching is not as bad as it is in a normal game. If we mislynched somebody on Earth one, we now know that they are town in Earth one. On Earth two we can still ask them questions and reads about Earth one. They can still talk about Earth one even though they are dead! This is huge. It is a major boon because they will be confirmed town to us on Earth two and provide us with much-needed information or reads, even telling us what result they got off of their abilities before they died on the other earth. That is extremely powerful in this game, and it needs to be utilized. Not only are we giving up our power as town by not lynching, we also don't have those confirmed town to work with which could then talk to us immediately on Earth 2. Definitely do not think that no lynching is an option.
Again, sorry for any typos from voice to text, I do not want to be distracted from the road. I will clarify on any typos that this is made when I get home.
In post 47, TellTaleHeart wrote:One thing we didn't do last time that we probably should've done a lot more of was take advantage of flipped town's cross-earth reads.
Clumsy makes some great points there. Fire Assassin, while your idea is noble it is not really realistic at all. if you get too paranoid about ever mislynching you just end up doing nothing. I think no lynching is possible the single most anti-town strategy in this type of set up. Clumsy is right - most of our best info will come from how people play differently on the different earths. While mislynching is always bad, the cloud has more silver lining here than a lot of other setups. If we just take it one at a time (again, completely unrealistic anyway), we are just playing two micros. Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other
In post 53, Alabaska J wrote:Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other
My point on that matter is that players will confuse their reads accross the earths. For example I will townread you for things you do on this earth and then associate that with Earth 2. It makes everything more complex. No lynching can be good if you don't have a good scumread. I am just telling you all, a compromise lynch at the end of the day isn't the best.
And day 1s meta as of late, is to do a horrible compromise lynch and the success rate on lynching scum is very low for that.
Nothing is true, everything is permitted
I do not play like bringer, stop comparing me to bringer.
In post 53, Alabaska J wrote:Seems inherently worse than playing two micros simultaneously that give you plenty of information about each other
My point on that matter is that players will confuse their reads accross the earths. For example I will townread you for things you do on this earth and then associate that with Earth 2. It makes everything more complex. No lynching can be good if you don't have a good scumread. I am just telling you all, a compromise lynch at the end of the day isn't the best.
And day 1s meta as of late, is to do a horrible compromise lynch and the success rate on lynching scum is very low for that.
You should keep better notes, or pay closer attention then. No Lynching is not the appropriate response to resolve this issue. Better scum hunting, and working together is.
I'm pretty sure that no one had this problem last game, and if they did, it wasn't a serious issue.
I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.
That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.
In post 54, Xkfyu wrote:All of this "The best way to find scum is to find differences in people's play between the two Earths" talk is nonsense.
In post 64, lilith2013 wrote:I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.
That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.
You mean you didn't do this in the last game? I know I wasn't very effective for town in Earth 2, but I thought that it was a good idea in that game. Do you think we should discard that completely? Or what?
In post 54, Xkfyu wrote:All of this "The best way to find scum is to find differences in people's play between the two Earths" talk is nonsense.
Wanna back that up with anything at all? It is additional information on top of a non-bastard mafia game. how is it not good info?
How many times has your own play varied from day to day, inside the same game?
If you're like the majority of people, probably a significant number of times.
How many times did your alignment change during those games?
Probably none.
If changes in play from day to day doesn't indicate an alignment change, why does changes in play from game to game indicate an alignment change?
What you are sayin is equivalent to "why scum hunt at all?" My play changes as information changes. The core of what I do stays fairly constant, but there are many red flags that hint at scum that don't hint at town. Called scumtells. I'm sure you know all of this but when someone's alignment changes, they will have more information and will likely play different. Is this the end all be all of scumtells? No, their role could've changed to a more important one, or something of that nature but things like interaction between two players who are now scum can certainly provide more info. I'm not saying "ok player x is different in this world, must be scum" I'm saying "ok player x is different in this world, let's take a look at what this could mean". Very different lines of thinking. I think you wan to believe that I am going to lead a lynch on someone who plays different when all I am saying is that it is an additional data point that could indeed catch a scumtell. I think specifically this will make newb scum easier to catch; will be interesting to see if that is indeed the case.
In post 64, lilith2013 wrote:I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.
That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.
This is a good post, QFT.
Ircher wrote:It really depends on a player's personality meta as almost every single tell does.
If there is a significant difference between the two alignments meta, then one can use that against a person.
Please be careful when using player metas and don't let that be a main argument. very easy to misinterpret lets behavior and very easy to play around your meta to fool people
In post 67, Alabaska J wrote:Please be careful when using player metas and don't let that be a main argument. very easy to misinterpret lets behavior and very easy to play around your meta to fool people
In post 67, Alabaska J wrote:Please be careful when using player metas and don't let that be a main argument. very easy to misinterpret lets behavior and very easy to play around your meta to fool people
Do you have any reads?
It's three pages in, barely anyone has posted, and we are arguing about theory because of what is most likely a semantic misunderstanding. No, not yet. I understand you want to move away from theory, but we are in a game with a weird setup and I think theory is very important and can lead to some great reads based on people's opinions about the setup and can lead to a more coordinated and focused town.
If anything your insistence on leaving theory this early reads as scum trying to earn town points for "moving the game along" when they are actually doing the opposite and making the town more disorganized as it moves through the game
In post 64, lilith2013 wrote:I disagree with Xk and FA wholeheartedly. Switching between games is to our advantage, and part of that is because from my own experience, being scum in one game and knowing who is town lets me compare the two games to each other, and it's not so much about playstyle as it is having more of an idea of their motivations in both games.
That didn't really articulate what I wanted to say, but close enough.
This is a good post, QFT.
Ircher wrote:It really depends on a player's personality meta as almost every single tell does.
If there is a significant difference between the two alignments meta, then one can use that against a person.
Please be careful when using player metas and don't let that be a main argument. very easy to misinterpret lets behavior and very easy to play around your meta to fool people
Ah, you missed it completely.
Things are only tells if they do it as one alignment but not another. Many scumtells unfortunately end up being more personality tells. And yes, I'm aware metas change.
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