Ythill wrote:Justin Playfair wrote:Ythill, did you really only realize that when Incognito brought it up, as seems to be indicated in post 229? Because that really seems to indicate that you know he's innocent, or if Incognito is not your eventual target that you suspect you'll be killing town. I mean, you really hadn't considered that?
I didn't think it through. When typing my possible outcomes, it occured to me that mafia could screw me by not killing. I didn't consider my target's alignment in that situation at all. Very bad oversight on my part, I know.
Bullshit. You've already said with great certainty that I'm scum. For you to not consider your target's alignment (in this case Incognito the scum) when you suggested the "excellent strategy number 4" just doesn't seem to ring true to me. What
does
ring true to me is that you're scum and when you were writing up your point about "excellent strategy number 4", you were thinking about it with the knowledge that Incognito will appear as Town when the mod reveals his alignment.
Ythill wrote:First point: does the slip up Incog hypothesises seem like a realistic mistake? Meaning, if I am forward-thinking enough to lay out this elaborate "carpet," does it follow that I am short-sighted enough to miss such an obvious hole in the plan?
Of course it's a realistic mistake. It just happened.
Ythill wrote:Second point: the "doc protected" plan seems much more viable if I am scum, so what's the point of me asking the doc not to protect me? In Incog's theory, wouldn't that be entirely counter-productive? As scum, I should have asked for doc protection.
Hmm... A little "Wine In Front of Me" perhaps? You're forcing us to think that if Ythill is scum, then he should have also asked for the doc's protection. Since he didn't, he must not be scum. Not asking for the doctor's protection of course
seems
like a very generous town action when in this case it's the action of the scum attempting to fool the Town.
Ythill wrote:Final point. Look at Incog's actions here and ask yourself why he selected the course he did. He has several options. He could go back and try a real defense against my PBPA, clearing himself enough to put Shteven back in my sights. He could try to find "the real scum" and direct my kill towards them. Or he can look for a mistake in my post and continue to argue desperately to lynch me. Which of these are the most realistic approaches for town? For scum?
I've already tried to respond to what I call, your Post By Post Distortion and upon doing so, I noticed so many points that were complete misrepresentations of things that I mentioned in the thread that I didn't even feel the need to complete the response. In fact, I urge everyone to sit down and read his so-called PBPA of me. Take the time to go to each and every post that he cites (since he didn't do anyone the favor and link each one), read what he says, read the actual post that I made in which he's referring to, and determine for yourself if his PBPA is actually valid. I've already found the real scum, Ythill. One of them happens to be you.
Ythill wrote:The obvious move here for any townie is to steer clear of a D1 lynch on me, waiting for my confirmation and lynching me D2 if it does not come. In the case of a townie who is my declared target, the obvious move is to stall the lynch, try and clear himself, and work hard to determine if my #2 suspect is actually scummy.
And this would be assuming I have actually bought your claim of being the One-Shot Night-Kill Vigilante, in which case I haven't. Think about it like this: Let's assume that you really are this One-Shot Night-Kill Vigilante that you claim to be. Would it really make sense from your perspective as a member of the town, who's duty and obligation is to the town, to form this solid conclusion about another player after creating a PBPA and reading my response to that PBPA to come forward and announce to everyone that you're the One-Shot Night-Kill Vig whose primary target is Incognito and that you absolutely
know
I an scum? And you did all this when the possibility of you being lynched was still very slim since you only had 3 votes on you. If you were actually this townie, you would have taken a step back and thought for a second: Wait, what if Incognito isn't scum and here I am announcing to everyone that I will kill him at night? The scum wouldn't even bother Night Killing you since they would know you're targeting a townie and you'll end up being Vanilla once you finish killing me. The scum also wouldn't even bother Night Killing me since they would also know I'm a townie and that you're gonna take care of me by killing me. They would just let you proceed with your killing and target a completely different target from the list of other potential victims that they have.
But now let's assume that you're Mafia. What would you have to gain by claiming this role? First off, in a mini-game there's no guarantee that we even have a Vigilante. So technically you could rest assured that there probably won't be a counterclaim since there's a good chance the role doesn't exist. And even if a counterclaim did come forward, you could mention "Oh but you must be day-kill. Mine is night-kill so no worries, I'm still telling the truth". Secondly, if I actually bought your claim and ended up not getting lynched today, you could keep your target that you will now be keeping at the bottom of each of your posts on me, realizing that "Hey, Incognito is a Townie. He's buying my claim and in an effort to prevent his own death which would be a loss to the Town, he'll claim his role before Night 1 rolls around." If I have a power role, then BINGO you just scored big by claiming to be the Vig. If I don't have a power role, then you and your mafia buddies could turn your attention on someone else from the town who may have a power role. Thirdly, you've laid out the rest of the beauty behind the claim ahead of you - you would from then on appear to everyone as this Vanilla Townie since you "used up" your one shot and you would be able to guide the town to mislynches.
Ythill wrote:Insead, Incog analyzes my post and finds a mistake that he immediately (and repeatedly) insists leads to no other conclusion except Ythill=scum + Incog=town even though there is at least one other explanation. He pushes this ruthlessly (look at his recent post count compared to a couple days ago) to try and get town to hang me. Why the rush?
I'm in no rush. I have no problem allowing the day to progress forward. My only fear is that you will somehow talk your way out of this one (like you're attempting to do right now) to hopefully lead the town to a mislynch on Day 1. You're also acting like that one mistake (which is a pretty horrific mistake considering how certain you are of me being scum) was the only reason I concluded that you are probably scum. Your PBPA of me was so bad and such a drastic misrepresentation of me that it was easy for me to come to the conclusion that you're scum. Your actions this whole day have also helped me to come to this conclusion (constantly reaffirming to everyone that you're a townie, mentioning that only the towniest of the town will realize Incognito's mistake in his post, flat-out lying about different points within the thread). The mistake you made was just a little icing on the cake.
Ythill wrote:Ask yourself the same questions about most of his posts: his hint that he has a power-role, his request for counter claims, his fence-riding habits, his "case" against apyadg, his shifty defense to my PBPA, etc, etc, etc. I am very comfortable letting you all form your own answers to these questions.
Where did I hint that I have a power role? And what's so bad about my counterclaim request? If someone counterclaims you, we'd
know
that at least one of you is lying, and we'd eventually be pretty much guaranteed to out one scum. With regard to Apyadg, my analysis of him wasn't allowed to continue since he never appeared in the thread again to provide us with that promised scum-hunting.
Ythill wrote:Also, take a look at Justin. I think he's pretty clearly a vanilla townie and I have been his top suspect since very early in the game. Yet he is giving my claim the benefit of the doubt. Why? Why wouldn't Incog do the same?
Seriously, what kind of a townie attempts to figure out the role of another townie? Oh, I know which kind: the kind who's actually scum. And I'm not giving you the benefit of the doubt because as I mentioned before, since you were so certain that I am scum it strikes me as unbelievable that you would make a mistake that badly when laying out your "excellent strategy" number 4.